C C C Camry HYBRID (6L per 100Km)

[arby]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Government fleets are going to wet their pants over this one.

The department I work in stopped buying prius' midway through last year because this was coming along.

[Dave_au]

What a load of bullocks - Volkswagen Golf 2.0L Turbo Diesel returns 5.6L/100 combined cycle, the same engine in the Camry sized Passat returns 6.6L/100 combined cycle. I know what I would prefer, and my money is on the Volkswagens being more enviromentally friendly in the long run.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by prydey

what happens to the batteries when they die?

of course no one will dare to do a feature 'against' hybrids as they will be seen as 'anti green'!!

The batteries get recycled.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by prydey

what amused me, is these same journo's are usually the ones who wet themselves over hybrids, and whinge when govt people don't use them. the irony is, the same principal applies. the cost and process of manufacture of a hybrid offsets any advantage the car has on the road. what happens to the batteries when they die?

of course no one will dare to do a feature 'against' hybrids as they will be seen as 'anti green'!!

Nobody talks about the embodied energy of a car which would greatly determine what is 'green' and what isn't.
Although, if Toyota's production is as efficient as its reputed to be then they may still have it.

Originally Posted by vztrt

It's gonna be the same price to service as a reg Camry...according to Toyota.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576B9001D9250

Thanks for that. Although It is only for the first 4 services (over 3 years ). It states there is an 8 year/160,000km warranty on the battery packs, it doesn't say how often they need to be replaced or how much.
And Toyota probably didn't stick to K.I.S.S.

[Chilliman]

How many on this forum have driven a hybrid - I have and it was weird, I felt totally disconnected from the car. It was a Lexus GS450h. I have felt the same souless feeling as a passenger in a Toyota Prius.

[jpd80]

Here's the peck order for 2011 as I see it:

1. Hybrid Camry averages 6 litres/100 klm

2. EB I-4 Falcon averages 8 litres/100 klm

3. Omega 3.0 SIDI averages 9.3 litres/100 klm

May we live in interesting times

[last fairlane]

My AU 4.0 uses 14/100 @ 59 cents/Litre it cost me $14999 in 2003
(Tickford dual fuel)

if you use 6/100 of premium @$1.40/Litre and cost new $35000 next month

how much savings do you actualy get over a six year life span
in six years
Ive done 100000Ks and replaced the transmission($600) second hand the Vialle($100) convertor and the starter motor($60) and servicing all up Ive spent on this car under $3000
a lot was done by myself at home over six and a bit years
show me a Toyota that will do those numbers
or even any of those little cars that dont tow a trailer or carry 5 people in comfort
and I still reckon Im better off
can someone do the maths for me
thanks John

[FalconXR6]

Looking forward to some solid "real world" testing.

[302 XC]

all is say is i hope toyota get their servicing a bit easier
we had a v6 camry touring (long time ago)and to do a spark plug change you have to remove/drop the motor to get to the back 2 plugs
toyota wanted to charge (at the time)just under 3k (yeah $3,000 to change spark plugs)"oh but they last 100,000 klms" they said
so thats a technological advantcement then ?????

[mik]

just as a matter of interest i rang toyota for a costing on a 2009 prius battery , $3624.00, so ,also i can`t see the average joe changeing these batteries somehow, so that would be + fitting and i`m guessing in the eventuality that those long term hybrid owners who can`t afford a new battery, will be running on petrol indefinatly.

[Mr Hardware]

Aren't the batteries warrantied for several years?

[302 XC]

just because the parts are warrantied does that mean they are fiited under warranty also ???
i could not justify the additional amout the hybrids are compred to petrol
so they mite be cheaper to run,but how many years do u have to own to recoup your money
most people have newish type cars for wat maybe 3 to 4 years then trade,couldnt really see the benefit of hybrid for that coupla year ownership

[LOWAU]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

What a load of bullocks - Volkswagen Golf 2.0L Turbo Diesel returns 5.6L/100 combined cycle, the same engine in the Camry sized Passat returns 6.6L/100 combined cycle. I know what I would prefer, and my money is on the Volkswagens being more enviromentally friendly in the long run.

ditto

diesel FTW

[naddis01]

If the Camry hybrid comes in at around $35000, it just goes to show how overpriced the Prius has been all of these years.

[UNR8D]

Actually a Camry id consider driving, FWD for the loose thou.

As for looks, for once it’s a hybrid that isn’t hopelessly styled ala prius

yes I have driven a few hybrids, prius, RX350H, GS450H all of them dull to drive and ultimately unrewarding but at the same time not bad in the performance stakes for what they are and did return impressive fuel figures.

a VE will not return consumption in the 6's if you pushed it off a cliff and that’s after driving model bar the new 3.0L wind up toy, well it may get into the 6's with no air con doing a hwy run at 80km/h with a tailwind but lets be serious here.

Good on them for making this in Aust, might even get some exports out of it and that’s only a good thing for our economy

[Poetic Justice]

Now, before I start here, I'm in no way suggesting I'm a Camry lover, but I always love to enter into these sort of discussions, and sometimes take the other side when it seems to be going all one way.

So here I shall attempt to fire some rebuttal!

Originally Posted by Chilliman

I wonder if this will cause fleets to have a re-think about the hybrid Camry, along with the $40,000 starting price?

As mentioned, it will be far less than 40,000 as a starting price and believe me, as you probably know, Govt and fleets will be paying even less.

I thought being a Hybrid it would average late 4s early 5s.. I must expect too much...

Given that the quoted figures for a Prius are around the 4's, and the Camry is a bigger car, bigger engine, weighs more... I guess you do.

What are servicing costs like for a Hybrid? Anything extra/specialised workshops needed?

Fixed price $130 per service for 3 years. After that period, you're recommended to change over. Not that you have to.

Under 35k..... Isn't that cheaper than the smaller Prius?

Yes, but the Prius is the 'cult' hybrid hero. It also offers more technology and I'm fairly certain the new Prius now uses a better hybrid technology where the Camry is using the previous Prius' technology.

Originally Posted by Airmon

Thanks for that. Although It is only for the first 4 services (over 3 years ). It states there is an 8 year/160,000km warranty on the battery packs, it doesn't say how often they need to be replaced or how much.

There is only two reported failures of the hybrid battery packs in Australia. Both were Prius' used as taxi's which had accumulated around 800,000km. Toyota paid for the repairs.

Originally Posted by Chilliman

How many on this forum have driven a hybrid - I have and it was weird, I felt totally disconnected from the car. It was a Lexus GS450h. I have felt the same souless feeling as a passenger in a Toyota Prius.

I've driven a GS450h a number of times. A prestigious vehicle at best. Nice car to drive. Smooth to drive. But I guess you must have missed the Sport Button (suspension) matched with the Power button (boosts power to 250kw) and given it a squirt. Believe me, it's no slouch.

ooking forward to some solid "real world" testing.

Look for how many articles you can find about whether Toyotas fall short of the claimed figures compared to Holdens. I think you'll find they're pretty good at getting it right.

The last point I wanted to make, is about the pricing.

Just so you understand, from what I've heard the entry point Camry Hybrid is based on the Camry Ateva (middle of the range.) The Camry Ateva RRP is $33,750+orc putting it retail at 37k.

You're not comparing a base Camry Petrol (Altise) and the base Camry Hybrid. The Camry Hybrid should come with the velour seats, climate control, remote unlock/start, leather steering wheel, chrome accents, alloys, plus a bunch of other stuff.

[mik]

in rebutal to your rebutal , i believe Chilliman was reffering to the overall lack of feel transfered to the driver rather than power output.

[Poetic Justice]

Fair call.

But given that the Lexus is supposed to be a luxury vehicle, for all intensive purposes it should be a smooth car to drive.

If you want the driver feedback, any hybrid is probably not for you unless they start unleashing ones with massive power.

However, as far as I can see with Toyota, all hybrids will gain the CVT auto, which overall is the most explainable reason for the lack of feel to the driver.

[naddis01]

I am with you on this one Scud. I too am no Camry or hybrid lover, or any current Toyota for that matter, but I can see if the Camry hydrid comes in at $35 - $40k then it will be a sales winner in my opinion. It wont appeal to the enthusiast, but the rest of the buying public is a different matter.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by mik

in rebutal to your rebutal , i believe Chilliman was reffering to the overall lack of feel transfered to the driver rather than power output.

Thank you. Yes I was. There is no doubt that the Lexus is a very luxurious car to be in, and yes it is capable of some spritely acceleration - but driving a Lexus hybrid (or a Pirus for that matter) feels like an 'out of body experience'. Having also driven the petrol Lexus GS, the difference was like night and day.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

What a load of bullocks - Volkswagen Golf 2.0L Turbo Diesel returns 5.6L/100 combined cycle, the same engine in the Camry sized Passat returns 6.6L/100 combined cycle. I know what I would prefer, and my money is on the Volkswagens being more enviromentally friendly in the long run.

So true - my Ute on runs has returned 8.2L/100 and BA Utes weigh 40kg more than a BA Sedan.
Trade this for a Camry for a saving of around $5 a tankful...........Naaaaaaa!

[Poetic Justice]

Im guessing on runs you mean, when you go out of town on highway trips?

That's great and all, but the Camry is returning a 6L average between highway and city.

If the Camry gets 6-7L average driving around time - real - as in stop start, driving 10 minutes here and there, from work to home in peak hour red lights etc etc etc, I challenge you to find a car of the same size that returns a similar figure.

[S3SR]

i get those figures in my XR8, just for every 100km i burn an extra 10L

thats nothing to really write home about, for a hybrid that has so much money invested and is suppose to be the modern day hero to save the world, i think 6L is terrible

i could train a monkey to get that in an F truck.... bananas would be cheap, he would have a longer fuel range, make some money on the side as a tow truck which would keep the servicing costs at a minimum, and would do the same job as those who drive camrys ..... nothing

the ford fiesta should be the fleet vehicle, all they need is a point to point car, as clarkson proved they have enough space in the back for a zebras head and the typical 2.2 children or their paperwork and whatnot..... and returns better figures than a prius

[prydey]

if its combined rating is 6L then its urban figure will be higher than that. probably closer to 8L/100km as the ADR81/02 figures are weighted more toward highway (extra urban).

8L x $1.20 = $9.60/100km

15L is pretty average for a falcon running injected lpg (vapour or liquid). in fact most would get down around 13-14L/100km, but we'll use 15L.

15L x $0.65 = $9.75/100km

i know which i'd prefer. maybe the hybrid will do better than 8L round town but its only going to be marginally ahead of a lpg fueled falcon. on the highway, it would be a similar figure.

i fail to see why lpg isn't being embraced more and the infrastructure being improved by the govt so that even most remote places have access to lpg.

[durtyharry]

Originally Posted by prydey

if its combined rating is 6L then its urban figure will be higher than that. probably closer to 8L/100km as the ADR81/02 figures are weighted more toward highway (extra urban).

I dont think you can come use the same guesstimate formula that applies to regular cars to calculate what the urban cycle and highway would be using the overall figure for a hybrid.(it would be useful if they gave us all of them!)

The point about hybrids that they use a whole lot less fuel, and consequently emit far less CO2 on the city cycle(than conventional petrol engine powered cars) due to the efficiencies of using regenerative braking capabilities and the higher overall efficiency of an electric motor in stop start traffic. Which is revealed in their claim below, which no –one has reason to doubt at the moment?
Here is what Toyota put in the press release:
Previously, Toyota said that compared with the “most fuel-efficient big Aussie six”, the Camry Hybrid would use 40 per cent less fuel on the official urban cycle and 25 per cent less on the highway cycle.

So if a current model petrol Falcon averages 15L/100km in your own city/urban use, one could expect consumption of 9L/100km for the hybrid doing the same driving.

Originally Posted by prydey

if its combined rating is 6L then its urban figure will be higher than that. probably closer to 8L/100km as the ADR81/02 figures are weighted more toward highway (extra urban).

8L x $1.20 = $9.60/100km

15L is pretty average for a falcon running injected lpg (vapour or liquid). in fact most would get down around 13-14L/100km, but we'll use 15L.

15L x $0.65 = $9.75/100km

...
i fail to see why lpg isn't being embraced more and the infrastructure being improved by the govt so that even most remote places have access to lpg.

The cost of running the hybrid may be similar to running a typical lpg powered falcon, however, saving money isnt the selling factor of these vehicles, its being green(or being seen to be green).

CO2 emissions of the lpg falcon would be basically at least double that of the hybrid because it burns basically double the amount of fuel.
If the hybrid’s engine ran on lpg rather than unleaded(which wouldnt take a whole lot to do) then the cost would be about half.

[302 XC]

6l/100ks wether highway/city or just highway is still a tiny tiny little stretch
do these people do tests up and down hills and around corners or do they find the straightest flattest road to test this on ????
out where i live with hills ect ,a push mower being pushed 100 klm would use more fuel

[prydey]

Originally Posted by durtyharry

I dont think you can come use the same guesstimate formula that applies to regular cars to calculate what the urban cycle and highway would be using the overall figure for a hybrid.(it would be useful if they gave us all of them!)

The point about hybrids that they use a whole lot less fuel, and consequently emit far less CO2 on the city cycle(than conventional petrol engine powered cars) due to the efficiencies of using regenerative braking capabilities and the higher overall efficiency of an electric motor in stop start traffic. Which is revealed in their claim below, which no –one has reason to doubt at the moment?
Here is what Toyota put in the press release:
Previously, Toyota said that compared with the “most fuel-efficient big Aussie six”, the Camry Hybrid would use 40 per cent less fuel on the official urban cycle and 25 per cent less on the highway cycle.

So if a current model petrol Falcon averages 15L/100km in your own city/urban use, one could expect consumption of 9L/100km for the hybrid doing the same driving.



The cost of running the hybrid may be similar to running a typical lpg powered falcon, however, saving money isnt the selling factor of these vehicles, its being green(or being seen to be green).


CO2 emissions of the lpg falcon would be basically at least double that of the hybrid because it burns basically double the amount of fuel.
If the hybrid’s engine ran on lpg rather than unleaded(which wouldnt take a whole lot to do) then the cost would be about half.

i was merely pointing out that an lpg falcon will still be just as cheap to run, without compromising power, space, comfort, range etc etc.

[durtyharry]

Originally Posted by prydey

i was merely pointing out that an lpg falcon will still be just as cheap to run, without compromising power, space, comfort, range etc etc.

but this is what you wrote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i fail to see why lpg isn't being embraced more and the infrastructure being improved by the govt so that even most remote places have access to lpg.

hence my response; whilst I didnt spell it out, the government also possibly wants to be seen to be green as well in promoting the hybrid.

[prydey]

correct. i stand by that too. i'm not into all this 'green' stuff. like the 'green' shopping bags, the cost to manufacture far outweighs any benefit the bag may have and is no better in the long run than the old plastic bag. hybrid cars are the same. like you say - its more about 'being seen to be green' than anything else.

[jpd80]

Shame Ford isn't pressing harder with diesel Mondeo,
especially the 1.8 litre Econetic with combined 5.2 l/100 klm