Distracted drivers are dangerous

[Franco Cozzo]

I've nearly rear ended someone when I was looking in the rear vision mirror and the trafic ahead came to a stop, or the moment I check my speedo, I always happen to drive past a higher speed limit sign lol.

[TUF_302]

Hasn't just happened to you Big Damo, i went straight threw a red light once casue i was checking my side mirros becasue some idiot was honking and flashing there lights at me, being distracted cant always be helped

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

There are a lot going on now than 15 years ago.
Now there are phones and GPS.
In saying that GPS should never be touched onre the journey begins.
Phones should never be used whilst the vehicle is being driven. Hands free or not.

Honestly who can drive whilst talking on a phone and actually concentrate on thr road?
Anyone who answers yes is full of ****.

Actually pilots do a multitude of tasks while flying.
And yes all at the same time....
Talking on radio, changing frequencies, navigating, stayin up right...

The problem with phones is that people switch to "phone mode" and forget they are actually driving a car.

There should be no difference to talkin to your passenger, then talking on your mobile. Its a "brain" function thing....

Do we forget that racing car drivers, super cars, formula one, WRC, ALL TALK ON THE RADIO back and forth with their mechanics and NOT ONCE get distracted???

Then again, like was said, some people actually turn around while talking to their passengers! Or apply make-up, comb their hair, light up a smoke, read a map... etc

Its a simple concept, when your driving, your primary job is to actually drive.
Most people seeminly rather be a passenger.

[fangq]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

Agreed.

But where do we draw the line?

Obviously talking on your mobile is illegal and considered dangerous, so what about operating the radio?

Is sitting back talking with one hand to your ear more dangerous than leaning forward trying to insert a CD or press buttons?

I have in vehicle blue tooth and even with that am very aware just how easy it is to zone out. My calls therefore are either very quick, no pick up or if needs be, pull over and call back. The research re driver phone distraction is well proven..

Steve
is my halo showing ??

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Actually pilots do a multitude of tasks while flying.
And yes all at the same time....
Talking on radio, changing frequencies, navigating, stayin up right...

The problem with phones is that people switch to "phone mode" and forget they are actually driving a car.

There should be no difference to talkin to your passenger, then talking on your mobile. Its a "brain" function thing....

Do we forget that racing car drivers, super cars, formula one, WRC, ALL TALK ON THE RADIO back and forth with their mechanics and NOT ONCE get distracted???

Then again, like was said, some people actually turn around while talking to their passengers! Or apply make-up, comb their hair, light up a smoke, read a map... etc

Its a simple concept, when your driving, your primary job is to actually drive.
Most people seeminly rather be a passenger.

They are not the only ones. On every shift I manage to drive, operate radio, provide notification and consult with hospital, monitor my student and provide clinical support to that student. All these and I am a male and apparently not capable of multi tasking.

I do not see an issue with talking while driving as long as the eyes stay on the road. Anyone that is not capable of doing this is probably not capable of driving safely and should hand their license in now. The problem comes when functions involving hand/eye coordination are carried out whilst driving, taking the eyes of the road and hands off the vehicle controls. Hands free is ok as long as it a true hands free, this does not include having to select numbers and dial.

Additionally driving along holding the phone in front of your face while you talk on speaker is not hands free. Personally I use a bluetooth ear piece at work as we can not fit hands free to general ambulances (we do not have service provided phones and therefore we all have different types). When I need to call whilst driving, I pull over, dial and then proceed once connected on the earpiece, despite the fact that at work I am legally allowed to talk on a mobile, I don't.

[Jim Goose]

Additionally driving along holding the phone in front of your face while you talk on speaker is not hands free.

Yes i have to laugh at people when they do that... holding the phone like a womans "compact" while talking into it.

Hollywood and American TV shows in general are poor examples of mobile phone use.
How many times do you see the actor driving while talking on the phone while the car is doing ok and not hitting anyone??

Many years ago i worked (while desperate for work) as a traffic controller.
Possibly the best examples of not paying attention while on the road was when we had closed one lane and detours set up to go through the side streets.

All the warning signs were up telling people that road works ahead, road closed ahead, detour ahead, reduce speed etc..... not to mention the ute was parked on the road with flashing lights and arrow board up. all on a nice straight bit of road in the suburbs.

Could anyone actually believe that 3 cars and one tip truck nearly ran into the ute parked on the road in the space of a few hours?

How can anyone miss a ute with flashing lights and a giant flashing arrow???
The signs which we put up everywhere....????

Another example was when we had tempory shifted the centre line of a suburban road with witches hats. As normal all the warning signs were up, council trucks and back hoes on the verge etc...

A car just drives down the road and wipes out all the witches hats which was set out to guide people around the road works. All the council workers litterally jumped out of the way!

The stupid ********** then drives up the road with three traffic cones stuck under her car and pulls over about 200m away to see why there was a burning smell im gathering from all the hats being rubbed away on the bitumen.
She gets out and has a look, pulls them out and just drives away.

Not a care in the world ... gotta love our modern caring sharing road users.

That job was the scariest and most dangerous work i ever had.
I lasted 6 months as the near misses were simply too much.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Chopped

This sounds funny but I'm serious >

Perving is hardly ever mentioned as a distraction.

Watch how many guys (me included sometimes ) will perve whilst driving .
Looking at chicks on the side of the road, sitting at bus stops, in cars, on push bikes (esp behind!), Sexy Billboard Ads etc.

I wonder how many have had/caused an accident because of this fact.

It is a well known cause of rear enders

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by flappist

Can you carry on a conversation with a passenger while driving?

Can you listen to talk back radio or music while driving?

Can you look around at the surrounding area for kids, animals or whatever that may possibly go onto the road?

If not then maybe you don't have the skills necessary to control a motor vehicle in the 21st century.

How is talking on a hands free telephone different to talking to a passenger?

And more importantly why is talking on a CB radio that REQUIRES one hand to operate while driving "safe"?

All of those things you have listed have been known to be the cause of accidents.

I understand what you are saying about talking to kids/people in the car versus mobiles, BUT the phone holds greater intensity of concentraction than passengers do, unless the kids are mucking up.

As technology grows so does our interest in it, and it is a distraction, the modern driver cannot keep up with everything that is going on around them.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Anyone that is not capable of doing this is probably not capable of driving safely and should hand their license in now.

There is the problem, 80% of people are not capable, that is the point we trying to make.

I would class myself (because of my extensive advanced driver taining, and that is trying I have undertaken, not delivered) as a damn good driver, but I have made a mistake whilst taking a business call on the mobile in a car HANDS FREE.

Noone is exempt, and I reckon if you were truthful you would admit to one or two mistakes as well.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by flappist

Can you carry on a conversation with a passenger while driving?
Can you listen to talk back radio or music while driving?
Can you look around at the surrounding area for kids, animals or whatever that may possibly go onto the road?
If not then maybe you don't have the skills necessary to control a motor vehicle in the 21st century.
How is talking on a hands free telephone different to talking to a passenger?
And more importantly why is talking on a CB radio that REQUIRES one hand to operate while driving "safe"?

Think about how much concentration is needed whilst doing to those things.
You hardly need to concentrate to every spoken word whilst listening to a song. Unlike talk back radio or phone calls.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Actually pilots do a multitude of tasks while flying.
And yes all at the same time....
Talking on radio, changing frequencies, navigating, stayin up right...

and they have to deal with all that traffic and pedestrians [/sarcasim]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The problem with phones is that people switch to "phone mode" and forget they are actually driving a car.

So true. They forget the responsibilities of driving.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Do we forget that racing car drivers, super cars, formula one, WRC, ALL TALK ON THE RADIO back and forth with their mechanics and NOT ONCE get distracted???

They are at a much higher level of concentration the the usual road user. The micro-second they are not, they crash.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Then again, like was said, some people actually turn around while talking to their passengers! Or apply make-up, comb their hair, light up a smoke, read a map... etc
Its a simple concept, when your driving, your primary job is to actually drive.
Most people seeminly rather be a passenger.

A mate usted to duck his head to light a smoke. (open window would blow out lighter) and I thought he was mad as if something pulled out, he would hit it and smash his head on steering wheel.
Good point though. Not enough though/concentration is given to driving.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Actually pilots do a multitude of tasks while flying.
And yes all at the same time....
Talking on radio, changing frequencies, navigating, stayin up right...

Difference here is that flying is relatively simple in as much as there are very little moving obstacles such as when you are driving. Once you trim an airplane for a certain ascent, descent, cruise; you can take your hands off the controls briefly to do what you need to. Also, when flying you tend to be incredibly focussed. I notice a couple of guys on these forums are pilots, so they can attest to what I mean.
Also, in airline work you'll always have one pilot flying whilst the other handles the radio, checklists and other items. In saying that, I agree with you 100%, difference between pilots, race car drivers etc compared to the regular public is that we have been professionally trained to multi-task.
My driving history, zero at fault accidents.
I've had a couple of close shaves, but they've always been facial. That said it can be a jungle out there. :

Speaking of phones/distractions and mult-tasking, a few years ago a mate of mine and myself ended up at the same company doing VIP work. When the VIP stuff was on the quiet side, we'd do mail work after curfew. So, one night enroute to yssy I got bored and called my mate as I thought he was on the ground already. Couldn't get him on a company frequency so I used my mobile. Turns out he still in the air. The way you talk on a mobile eliminating the noise is to stick the handset between your ear and headset. Long story short whilst I was in a cruise with the autopilot on, my mate was busy doing an ILS approach into yssy. I heard his radio calls, gear retract, flaps and even the wheels touching the runway. Some may call it wreckless and some may call it stupid; but to me that's the epitome of multi-tasking.
Him, no at fault accidents either.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

There is the problem, 80% of people are not capable, that is the point we trying to make.

I would class myself (because of my extensive advanced driver taining, and that is trying I have undertaken, not delivered) as a damn good driver, but I have made a mistake whilst taking a business call on the mobile in a car HANDS FREE.

Noone is exempt, and I reckon if you were truthful you would admit to one or two mistakes as well.

Of course I make mistakes, everyone does, the important point is the size of the mistakes and the recovery, I have not made one that involved touching another car in 15 years. Some of my driving involves higher speed through traffic whilst carrying out more functions than just driving and holding conversation, it can be done, it just takes concentration. I am not anything special, I have no special talents, I am just well trained and well practiced.

I think you may have misread me, I am not suggesting that everyone should be able to drive around, gas bagging on their hands free phone waving their hands around like Mama Luigi. All I am saying is that the average human being should be able to hold a quiet conversation (either person to person or hands free), it is a skill we all use every day.

When you are watching tv and the wife wants to ask a question, do you have to pause the tv or the wife because you can not accommodate two things at once? Are you able to walk through a shopping centre or department store with the wife, dodging clothing racks, bargain crazed shoppers and crazy rugrats, while holding a conversation? I am sure in your job as a driver trainer you talk to students whilst you are driving, have students talk to you while they are driving (I do).

My point is that holding quiet conversation whilst driving is a skill that every competent driver should be able to do, if they can't then they are not competent and should hand their license in. I do not support the notion that normal quiet conversation is a distraction to safe driving, where do we stop? Do we then have to have legislation that forces us to have monitored cameras and microphones in our car, with legislation that bans conversation whilst the vehicle in motion? I hope not.

I can not think of a single crash that I have attended where when asked what happened a motorist has said "I was talking to my friend and not concentrating on driving and crashed into the car in front". I have been to many when the motorist has admitted to looking for wallets, changing CD's, making a phone call, reading bill boards, looking for street signs etc. All things that have resulted in their eyes leaving the road for a prolonged period of time. By the way, you would be amazed how honest people can be after an accident as to what went wrong when you wear a green uniform and not a blue one.

Any one that can not flap their jaws whilst concentrating on driving should not be driving, neither should those that can not glance at a speedo without bumping into things.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Some of my driving involves higher speed through traffic whilst carrying out more functions than just driving and holding conversation, it can be done, it just takes concentration. I am not anything special, I have no special talents, I am just well trained and well practiced.

My point exactly, you have been highly trained to be able to do these things whilst driving, MOST of the population hasn't been trained to that level. I know, I used to train emergerncy service drivers.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

My point is that holding quiet conversation whilst driving is a skill that every competent driver should be able to do, if they can't then they are not competent and should hand their license in

We agree on this, as in my opinion, most can't

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I can not think of a single crash that I have attended where when asked what happened a motorist has said "I was talking to my friend and not concentrating on driving and crashed into the car in front".

Of course they are not going to admit that, either consciously or sub-consciously. BTW, I have a background in road accident rescue as well.

Most of my driver training experience has not been with novices, it has been with people just like you, experienced 'professional' drivers, and some of them scare me.

[Jim Goose]

Another example of drivers "not being switched on"....

How many times have I seen cars driving at night with no lights on?
Too many.

Now why is it that the driver, who should be watching his speedo every now and then, doesnt see that his dash isn't lit up?

If A) he is looking at his dash and it doesnt register that its not lit up, mean the signal to his/her brain isnt registering?

or B) They are not looking at the dash and just driving around in lala land...

oh wait... same result... lol

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

My point exactly, you have been highly trained to be able to do these things whilst driving, MOST of the population hasn't been trained to that level. I know, I used to train emergerncy service drivers.


We agree on this, as in my opinion, most can't

Of course they are not going to admit that, either consciously or sub-consciously. BTW, I have a background in road accident rescue as well.

Most of my driver training experience has not been with novices, it has been with people just like you, experienced 'professional' drivers, and some of them scare me.

Agreed.

Your first point raises the question of driver training, may be the general population requires more.

Your second point, it is astounding what people admit to on the way to hospital in the privacy of the ambulance when the paramedic says "I don't believe they came from nowhere" or "I don't think the car just lost control", I need you to tell me everything so that I can ensure you have good memory and were not knocked at all. They usually tell.

Your third point, very true, even highly trained professional drivers get it wrong and some are not up to standard. These normally get identified and problems rectified, we are under higher scrutiny than the average motorist.

I guess that my point is that normal quiet conversation whilst driving is not something that can be avoided in all case and nor is it something that can be controlled.

As for the non hands free mobile, this can be controlled so throw the book at them. Car audio should be electronically modified on all new vehicles and aftermarket units so that it is linked to the speedo and can not be adjusted whilst the vehicle is moving, except by steering wheel controls.

Similarly the same should be required for all sat nav units, they should not respond to user input when movement is detected. I know on my garmin has this feature but you can turn it off, it should be locked on. Even at work when responding to a lights and siren incident, I still pull over and program the sat nav, it does not take long and ensures much greater safety for myself, my partner and the general community. Maybe some more motorists need to realise this, their life is not that busy and so important that they need to risk the health of others.

[DBourne]

Personally I don't find myself getting distracted from driving when talking on the phone (hands free), I do however loose concentration in the conversation if I am coming to an intersection, or over taking etc, as I put more concentration into driving.

I will also admit, on my old nokia brick style phone, i used to pump out large sms' while driving, but never looked at the phone, however with a new touch screen phone I don't bother reading / writing sms' at all. It really does just place you under a greater chance of something going wrong.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by ltd

difference between pilots, race car drivers etc compared to the regular public is that we have been professionally trained to multi-task. .

i've heard race drivers go off at the race manager for talking while he wasn't on the straight. therefore i think the protocol is to only talk to the driver when distraction is minimal (ie on the straights).

[Dauphin]

One of those flashy new cars with Xenon headlights distracted me a few nights ago because it flashed purplish-reddish-blue in my rearview mirror as it went over the bumps on the road, and I thought maybe it was a police car. My eyes were off the road for only a second or so and a German Shepard ran out in front of me. Had my passenger not called out, I would have gone right into it!

[Trevor 57]

You shouldn't be so nervous about having red/blue lights behind you - LOL