XR6 Turbo VS 2JZ-GTE

[pottery beige]

Rice, milk, juice....

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by justlikemusic

I been passenger in my mates VY Clubsport 285kW and I think because the weight it doesn't really feel that fast. Also I think the gear ratios in them are really high because he changes gears so much... However another mate has a VX Calais and you can tell the 220kW LS1 boots along nicely. He has extractors and full exhaust with intake and tune and it really chops. I reckon the VY's extra weight makes it so much more different.

I driven a R33 GTS't with FMIC/exhaust/10psi boost and it feels fast because your having so much fun listening to the rice machine and BOV and get caught up with the racing feel. I reckon I would have killed that car within a few months though. Same with a 300ZX, engine bay is a mess and felt doughy until boost come on.

How much heavier do you think a VY is compared to a VX ?


6spd VY Clubby is actually lighter than a VX Calais V8

[Franco Cozzo]

I say go the Aristo just for the fact its pretty rare, its like the Japanese Falcon.

[JC807]

if i lived in NZ i'd be getting a jap import for sure.

remember there is scary fast, fast, and deceptively fast. they are all fast....some are just more comfortable than others.
I feel that my BF turbo is deceptively fast because it is so comfortable at speed, and puts its power down pretty well.

[TICK4D]

My brothers BA 1 XR6T auto with 343rwkw feels insanely quick, very nice to drive, but any more and you'd worry about internals.
With the 2JZ you can go more again, and it's easier to bolt things on than it is to yank the motor out completely to rebuild the bottom end. With both engines you'd have to change almost the exact same things anyways, for New Zealand parts for the 2JZ would be much more abundant and i would guess,,,, cheaper.
There is no doubt the 2JZ is king of the stock internals for turbo cars, but i really really like my brothers XR6 T.

[Jay_Rock]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Where are you getting your info from?

My brain, Internet, specs, Mechanics and proven statistics.

[Jay_Rock]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sure, just go bolt on a couple of hair dryers and way you go, it's that easy....

Trust me your sarcasm serves you right

[Jay_Rock]

Originally Posted by Davebro

I don't think you get 'reliable' at 800hp..... In anything!

And end of the day, why would you want 800hp unless its a dedicated drag car, or track weapon?

Its completely pointless on the street.

What are you going to use it for?

I am not trying to succeed to get a 2JZ Into getting 800hp. Im Just saying that the XR6 Turbo needs to get some rebuilt components around 300rwk where as you don't need to crack open a 2JZ till... the end of time =D

[Jay_Rock]

Originally Posted by [CaSeY]

you ask this on a ford forum and you sound like we should be saying 2jz because you already think that is better, well hello 80% of the ppl here will think the barra is better...

Yes you're right haha but I took the shot

[MexicanBatman]

sorry to inform you but the greatest inline 6 of all time is the chrysler slant /6

i had one and can confirm this, other inline's ive owned

225 /6
245 hemi
265 hemi
ef 4.0
au 4.0
Bmw 2.8L
FG turbo
+ a few more i've forgotten about

then there is an equally as long list of V6's ive owned but v6 is the gay, so we'll forget them

anyway slant 6 is king

sure not as much power as a modern engine but if it were about power i'd have a 900" mountain

[bdave351]

Originally Posted by Jay_Rock

I am not trying to succeed to get a 2JZ Into getting 800hp. Im Just saying that the XR6 Turbo needs to get some rebuilt components around 300rwk where as you don't need to crack open a 2JZ till... the end of time =D

You can keep qouting that till the cows come home but it simply isnt true.

If you want to talk early stuff like BA's needing valve springs then fine, but thats it till you have a hell of a lot more than 300rwkw.

300rwkw is tune only territory these days for the FG F6.

You will really struggle to find anyone of the hundreds of people running 300 to 350rwkw that have atomic/built motors.
*actually I can think of one or two BA's but they are losing power due to having big convertors sucking it down to about 340rwkw.

My BF has a grand total....

200 s/h monza cooler
150 s/h 968 injectors
250 cat
Custom tune (played with a few times but 1000 is a fair call for custom tune)
Oh and a F6 lower airbox bit for 50

Thats 306.5 rwkw and a 12.2 timeslip with plenty left in the launch daily driver that gets same to better fuel economy than most stockers........

Good luck getting the same time for that price out of the 2jz.
Sure its good reliable motor, but the 4l turbo is incredible value for money.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Jay_Rock

I am not trying to succeed to get a 2JZ Into getting 800hp. Im Just saying that the XR6 Turbo needs to get some rebuilt components around 300rwk where as you don't need to crack open a 2JZ till... the end of time =D

So why bother with the thread if you know this....

You will be better off searching the I6T area of this forum for facts rather than asking questions then answering them with miss information.

[WASP]

I owned a beautiful Supra RZ twin turbo, 6 speed manual. She was only mild and ran stock boost, however its overall performance was eye opening. A real point and shoot weapon it was so much fun to drive and own. The engine felt effortless, incredibly smooth and the sound the 3ltr 6 made was wonderful. I loved the manual gearbox and to this day it is one of the be best manuals I have driven.

On the other side of this picture, the standard twin turbo set up was limiting and not very friendly to increasing the boost levels. In fact most owners that were serious about making big power needed to remove the twin turbo set up all together and run with a big single instead. This engine, as lovely as it was, being a peaky 3ltr meant that its low end thrust without the smaller snail in place was all but gone. Turbo lag became an unwanted companion that quite frankly spoilt the cars brilliant point and shoot ability and numbed its characteristics. Being a high tech, but older model, many Supra’s were plagued with electrical gremlins which weren’t that much fun either. Timing belt replacements were also required frequently. The interior plastics were quite frankly horrible and for daily use the the low small coupe became an absolute pain to get into, and out of once the novelty had worn off.

I loved my Supra. From an engineering point of view it was incredibility impressive and the driveline was strong. If it’s a weekend race toy you’re looking for, you have time and patience and want to make big power using stock internals and a standard driveline then the RZ TT is a brilliant starting point. Just be weary that once you are pushing over 350rwkw with this car, the only place in my opinion you will feel safe and comfortable with it is on a race track, or drag strip. On the street it will likened to a wild go-cart ride and will be quite frankly be a complete handful to drive.

I think the XR6T offers you an entirely different experience of ownership assuming the end result of your ownership aspirations is pushing over 350rwkw or alot more as well. The 4ltr engine will be delightful to drive on the street, under most conditions even when tuned well over 400rwkw+. The engine is incredibly flexible, while being brutally potent at the same time. Mechanical electrical glitches are rare as well . Being a large sedan, it’s not as sexy as the sleek Supra Coupe, however it’s a hell of allot more comfortable, and practical to. Yes you will need to rebuild your engine for the power goals you are talking (800hp), or at least eventually anyway. You will also have to upgrade most of your driveline, suspension and brake systems. Put aside between $20k to $30k for all this depending on quality. The engine package should see you with a car that is capable of exceeding your power goals reliably, rather than on the edge of its stock internal limits. You will also have a car that will do most things well and comfortably in the domestic world, while holding its own to most cars at the track. Not bad for a humble Falcon.

[Ghiadude]

good post cdaa

[mik]

Originally Posted by Ghiadude

good post cdaa

vote +1

[TurboMad]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

All car's in New Zealand are Imports.

A little off topic - sorry!
Technically right but not entirely accurate!
There is no manufacturing of mainstream cars in New Zealand so all cars are imported into the country.
But any car sold new in New Zealand is regarded as new in NZ and is not in any way treated like an "import". It carry's the manufacturers warranty and obligations just the same as in Australia or any other origin.

Imports of second hand cars from all over the world but mostly Japan have very strict controls on them more so lately, with tightening of the importation of used vehicle regulations.

You can buy just about any brand from anywhere in the world in New Zealand new if you wanted to most brands are represented here.

The Jap imports have seen the price of second hand cars tumble and the level of fit-out raised over the last decade or so. That's also changing a little as other countries like the UK get into importing as well and reducing the available stock.

[Jay_Rock]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

So why bother with the thread if you know this....

You will be better off searching the I6T area of this forum for facts rather than asking questions then answering them with miss information.

You're exactly right but the sub idea was to hear what the ford guys had to say about the xr6 turbo. This thread hasn't been a waste of time for me as I have been well educated. There definitely Is a good competition between the two. However we all have our preferences. So without further a do would you be able to lock this thread now? I have required the Information I needed thank you all.

[Polyal]

I cant believe people compare a clapped out EB 5 speed to a tuned BA XR6T and think the EB is quick.

Pretty much any manual will "feel" quicker than an equivalent auto, simply because you are more aware of the speed where in an auto it all happens pretty effortlessly. Hit anything over 100kph in the EB and you will think you have hit warp speed because its falling apart where you would have just blinked in the BA.

Both engines can make big numbers, but as CDAA mentioned they are worlds apart once in there donar cars. If your on a tight budget, and even if you are not the Barra will prove to be stronger if you dont want to rebuild the thing.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

How much heavier do you think a VY is compared to a VX ?


6spd VY Clubby is actually lighter than a VX Calais V8

Beat me to it .

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I cant believe people compare a clapped out EB 5 speed to a tuned BA XR6T and think the EB is quick.

Pretty much any manual will "feel" quicker than an equivalent auto, simply because you are more aware of the speed where in an auto it all happens pretty effortlessly. Hit anything over 100kph in the EB and you will think you have hit warp speed because its falling apart where you would have just blinked in the BA.

Both engines can make big numbers, but as CDAA mentioned they are worlds apart once in there donar cars. If your on a tight budget, and even if you are not the Barra will prove to be stronger if you dont want to rebuild the thing.

The terrific refinement of the BA-BF models compared to E series is what makes them feel slower. Sure there is 200kg difference (if you added the turbo bits and pieces to an E-Series), but that is offset to some degree by the DOHC Barra engine.

CDAA speaks with some authority here. He has owned both. The post was balanaced. But, clearly the Falcon is the winner.

[ebxr8240]

Keep in mind that one car is a sports car the other is family sporty 4 door ...
That can tow a caravan, boat etc anywhere with your family or mates..

These basic things are not compared in magazines etc..

I remember having a conversation with a car sales guy..
I said the car he wanted me to buy, "don't handle too well"..
He said if you want handling ?? "Buy a 911 Porsche"...
I said yea but "how would it go towing the boat & where would I fit the golf clubs with 4 of my mates" ??? For once the salesman was lost for words... Aha...

[Piotr]

I think the "seat of the pants" test is actually pretty poor. Some cars can feel fast while in really are not so fast and other can be very fast but feel slow.

To give you an example I went for a drive through a twisty bit of road yesterday in the Megane 225 (Moded to around 210kw with Bilstein suspension) with a friends Clio 172 in tow (Midly moded aswell).

And as im sure a few of you know a Renanult Sport Clio is very rapid through a twist bit of road.

Inside the Clio at full pelt you could really fell the speed through the corners while in the megane to be right on the butt of the clio felt like driving in traffic.

While an extreme case it goes to show that a car can "feel" fast it doesn't mean it is fast.

[ST]

Daily - Falcon
Weekender - Supra

[Nikked]

2j in a cressida = win.

[Mental]

We race 2J's and 1J's and I can tell you for certain ... Making -RELIABLE- HP with a 2J is NOT CHEAP! If you think for 1 second that it's as simple as bolting on some bits and going like the clappers you need a lobotomy, or hang out in a macca's car park.

The minute you think about going above 14psi or 350-400rwhp (whichever comes first) open your wallet, turn upside down, shake until empty.

At 14.7psi the ECU is maxed for boost pressure, it simply cannot measure above that point (1 bar sensor) There is some leeway in the standard ECU, in that the spark isn't aggressive and the Fuel Map is quite rich, but at above 17psi your seriously pushing your luck. Above 17psi the JDM import motors will spit the Number 2 turbine pronto as they are ceramic, and the surge from pre-spooling by the Number 1 turbo smashes it under WOT rapid RPM climb. The RPM increases faster than the pre-spool system can wind the 2nd turbo up, come 3,500rpm it goes wide open and blasts the Turbine to death.

So for decent reliable HP you need a turbo, manifold, side feed injectors (or top feed and fuel rail), 1:1 regulator, blow off, waste gate, and most importantly an ECU! You essentially need to replace everything but the intake/throttle body and engine internals. Standard Cams go a long way on these, and if you do decide on changing them you'll get no change from $1200. None of this stuff is cheap!

Do yourself a favour and stay away from the sexy looking turbo manifolds on eBay and what-not. Not only will they eventually crack, but they don't make magic HP. Buy an angle mount cast iron job with the Flange you need. They spool faster, make more HP, don't crack and make HEAPS more room to work in your engine bay.

And as for a -reliable- 800HP with standard internals. It -is- possible. But I can guarantee you that you WILL kill more than a couple finding the right combo because ITS ALL IN THE TUNE AND HOW YOU DRIVE IT. And i stress drive, because the same engine under race conditions wouldn't last, period. But then when racing, nothing lasts.

[Gaz]

Originally Posted by Piotr

I think the "seat of the pants" test is actually pretty poor. Some cars can feel fast while in really are not so fast and other can be very fast but feel slow.

To quote a favourite saying...

"When was the last time your *** was calibrated?"

[ebxr8240]

Not by me !!!! Lol...

[Jay_Rock]

Originally Posted by Mental

We race 2J's and 1J's and I can tell you for certain ... Making -RELIABLE- HP with a 2J is NOT CHEAP! If you think for 1 second that it's as simple as bolting on some bits and going like the clappers you need a lobotomy, or hang out in a macca's car park.

The minute you think about going above 14psi or 350-400rwhp (whichever comes first) open your wallet, turn upside down, shake until empty.

At 14.7psi the ECU is maxed for boost pressure, it simply cannot measure above that point (1 bar sensor) There is some leeway in the standard ECU, in that the spark isn't aggressive and the Fuel Map is quite rich, but at above 17psi your seriously pushing your luck. Above 17psi the JDM import motors will spit the Number 2 turbine pronto as they are ceramic, and the surge from pre-spooling by the Number 1 turbo smashes it under WOT rapid RPM climb. The RPM increases faster than the pre-spool system can wind the 2nd turbo up, come 3,500rpm it goes wide open and blasts the Turbine to death.

So for decent reliable HP you need a turbo, manifold, side feed injectors (or top feed and fuel rail), 1:1 regulator, blow off, waste gate, and most importantly an ECU! You essentially need to replace everything but the intake/throttle body and engine internals. Standard Cams go a long way on these, and if you do decide on changing them you'll get no change from $1200. None of this stuff is cheap!

Do yourself a favour and stay away from the sexy looking turbo manifolds on eBay and what-not. Not only will they eventually crack, but they don't make magic HP. Buy an angle mount cast iron job with the Flange you need. They spool faster, make more HP, don't crack and make HEAPS more room to work in your engine bay.

And as for a -reliable- 800HP with standard internals. It -is- possible. But I can guarantee you that you WILL kill more than a couple finding the right combo because ITS ALL IN THE TUNE AND HOW YOU DRIVE IT. And i stress drive, because the same engine under race conditions wouldn't last, period. But then when racing, nothing lasts.

To be honest I think that's the answer I've been looking for. Finally I've found the downside to the 2jz-gte that lets me re - think about things, thank you I was needing this.

[Matt47569]

the answer to this thread = rb26dett

[Nikked]

Rb is no better, same problems. Ceramic turbos for one.