Fuel misers cost more in the long run

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Oil filters for the Focus diesel are pretty pricey for genuine ones, a mate at work said his cost more than $50 and that was with employee discount. He couldn't believe it.

I can believe that because when I was working at Honda, we used to service a construction fleet of diesel 4X4s and a genuine oil filter from Mitsubishi for the Turbo Diesel was $60.

[Olbucko]

I have a Territory and a Subaru Forrester. The Forrester costs less for fuel each week but costs twice as much for insurance and servicing, making the Territory slightly cheaper to run. Petrol is only a small part of the total cost of owning a car.

[KiwiKilda]

It's interesting I think doing regular religous maintenance
saves yer money in the long run

More Fuel efficient
heads up on what needs doing if anything next.
It is just peace of mind.

Me ride gets new oil every 5000k
and a bit of tlc every 3mths
Drive it like a granny really
Nothing is gonna go wrong I hope cos (touch wood) I will not let it

LPG lets ya chuck a few more coins at problem prevention

[mik]

Originally Posted by KiwiKilda

It's interesting I think doing regular religous maintenance
saves yer money in the long run

More Fuel efficient
heads up on what needs doing if anything next.
It is just peace of mind.

Me ride gets new oil every 5000k
and a bit of tlc every 3mths
Drive it like a granny really
Nothing is gonna go wrong I hope cos (touch wood) I will not let it

LPG lets ya chuck a few more coins at problem prevention

agreed mate , preventative mainteneance goes along way to trouble free motoring, its a nice feeling to on the spur of the moment grab the keys and do an interstater with no worries.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

It has a Diesel Particulate Filter which needs some special fluid or some crap in a few years time.

iv'e been checking up on the diesel fords after 2008 and i cannot find any info on this urea or any additive.

is this info in your book?

[KiwiKilda]

The RACV’s general manager of public policy Brian Negus said depreciation was the “ticking time bomb” in relation to vehicle ownership, with many car buyers failing to recognise it as a major vehicle cost.


< Yes and a sedentory lifestyle from
over use of a motor vehicle
can be the ticking time bomb of "safety"

Did without a car for the first year in Aus
the positive effect on our health was phenomenal

[2011G6E]

I'd agree with that...I think many people will be in for an unpleasant surprise when they go to trade in or privately sell thier flash modern car.

We bought our 2004 Landcruiser in 2008 and loved it...until about a year after buying it and it clocked over 150,000km, which meant the manditory replacement of the timing belt (a $450 job), and thankfully they left out the other supposedly "manditory" thing to be done at that time: replacement of the entire piping system for the diesel injection! No idea why Toyota said in the logbook that it had to be done, but we refused on advice from some other mechanics. The job would have cost from $1000 to up near $2000 by some estimates, especially if done at a proper Toyota dealership.

I really think some modern cars aren't built for the long haul of a decade or more of ownership.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by burnz

iv'e been checking up on the diesel fords after 2008 and i cannot find any info on this urea or any additive.

is this info in your book?

Do a google search on "eolys fluid"

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by burnz

iv'e been checking up on the diesel fords after 2008 and i cannot find any info on this urea or any additive.

is this info in your book?

I don't think any Ford has used an additive like Urea yet. Powerstroke diesel does maybe?

Mercedes AdBlue does, VW and Audi use it as do others, but i've never heard of it being used in Ford passenger vehicles.

Come Euro 6 it will probably be across the board.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Do a google search on "eolys fluid"

yep for "old/early" particulate filters..2007 or earlier.

newer ones don't need it, it seams.

[mik]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I'd agree with that...I think many people will be in for an unpleasant surprise when they go to trade in or privately sell thier flash modern car.

We bought our 2004 Landcruiser in 2008 and loved it...until about a year after buying it and it clocked over 150,000km, which meant the manditory replacement of the timing belt (a $450 job), and thankfully they left out the other supposedly "manditory" thing to be done at that time: replacement of the entire piping system for the diesel injection! No idea why Toyota said in the logbook that it had to be done, but we refused on advice from some other mechanics. The job would have cost from $1000 to up near $2000 by some estimates, especially if done at a proper Toyota dealership.

I really think some modern cars aren't built for the long haul of a decade or more of ownership.

i have seen cracked injector pipes before, i think its because of the high fuel pressure on some diesels causeing a bit of flex in in the tubes.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by mik

i have seen cracked injector pipes before, i think its because of the high fuel pressure on some diesels causeing a bit of flex in in the tubes.

The later model common rail diesels do have alot more fuel line presure than the older diesels,so this could be true

Im not really into buying new cars any more my wallet stills cringers on the thought
The daily/weekly running costs are a minor factor
The depreciating would be IMO a major factor
I dont buy my cars purely on their economy
They are bought on power pulling the large trailer and whatever load it carries
To me ensuring i can keep the speed limit up that hill with the wieght on the back , is more important than buying something thatll struggle,but return better economy

[mik]

I hate to be a miner...... but i must........ i must, i saw a mate last night that i haven't seen for a while, hes a mad car dude with about 5 different cars, mostly japanese or euro, we got talking on cost of servicing his fleet, and i thought of this thread oh ma gawd .........2011 .....how time doth flyeth !
anyway we got around to the cost of his little bmw mini for general running costs, oh yeah baby 5.x litres per hundred k ......oh beauty mate, ...........then he mentioned for a clutch replacement, his face went red, i said how much, he said 10k, i said what is it modified or something? .......... nup standard ,
crikey ,i'm breaking into a cold sweat just thinking about it.
this is another reason i love the local cars........ big cars, no dual mass flywheels , no timing belt, straightforward to work on, cheap parts and local knowledge..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by burnz

iv'e been checking up on the diesel fords after 2008 and i cannot find any info on this urea or any additive.

is this info in your book?

False info, no one here is clear if our cars actually have DPFs, I'm pretty sure mine doesn't as it has a different intake tube to the European ones which do.

[Watto_Cobra]

Originally Posted by jpd80

.......I personally cannot see any advantage in paying extra for either a hybrid or a
diesel if its used for private running, unless you're doing heaps of running,
it's just not worth it........

The difference between an Econetic Fiesta and it's petrol sibling is near on
$8,000 and considering that most people are paying for that difference in
after tax dollars earned, it adds up to a lot of hidden tax.

$8,000 saved on payments could be as much as $12,000 earned before tax
and no mater which way you slice it, that a heck of a lot of green just to
save a few bucks every time you fill up.

I considered getting a diesel Fiesta for a daily (I do 20,000km a year) until I worked out all the costs. I'm far better off keeping my trusty AU which owes me nothing, has been nearly faultless, and I can service myself.

Also why I have a turbo weekender, I don't drive it often enough for fuel cost to be a worry. Surprisingly good economy for the grunt though.

Originally Posted by mik

...........anyway we got around to the cost of his little bmw mini for general running costs, oh yeah baby 5.x litres per hundred k ......oh beauty mate, ...........then he mentioned for a clutch replacement, his face went red, i said how much, he said 10k, i said what is it modified or something? .......... nup standard........

$10K for a frigging clutch? I hope it's gold-plated.

[stace650]

So my XP Wagon would have done well here. I sold it for 4 grand more than l bought it for after five years of ownership. It had reasonable economy, cost next to nothing to service and was also cool.
Result!
My FPV GT, on the other hand... Not so good for the budget. But it registers well on the smile-o-meter.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I bought a TDCI Focus because I liked the way it drove over the petrol versions, and its my first taste of a car with forced induction.

I didn't really buy it to save fuel, cause I came out of a WS Fiesta which was doing 6.3L/100km.

Ah but that's the difference,
buying diesel or a hybrid because you like them is different to buying to justify a saving in ownership costs..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I really think some modern cars aren't built for the long haul of a decade or more of ownership.

We live in a very disposable society today, look at the oldest popular Falcon or Commodore now on the roads
and you'll find that it's most likely AU and VT/VX respectively, not too many E series or VR/VS anymore..

Engine and transmission rebuilders are basically being forced out of business due to designed obsolescence
and apart from people with passion for cars and big wallets to afford throwing cash into "money pits",
most people trade new cars after five years max and the second owners after another five years.
I wonder how many people will want to get stuck with an expensive ZF rebuild in later Falcons as they age,
this could see a lot more of them going earlier rather than hanging on like their older four speed auto cousins..

Can a hybrid or diesel give reliable running for then years in the hands of private / non-fleet owners?
Probably so and most likely this is the ambition of most car makers in cementing the credentials of their vehicles.

Whether a car survives beyond that seems to be almost irrelevant to 99% of the market, there's just no resale value.

[SteveJH]

My Focus petrol uses I think (going from the trip computer) an extra litre/100km then my parents Diesel Focus (same model).

Mine will probably cost less to service and maintain then theirs though, and it has a manual gearbox (which I wanted for some reason) compared to their Powershift box.

[jpd80]

What we're seeing is that the car segment buyers still want petrol but with increased fuel efficiency.
I know of several people now who have traded in their Commodores but instead of buying VFs, all of
them have gone for Mazda 6, the responses I get back have bee very positive especially on fuel usage.
Most saying that if they had known how good mid sizers were on fuel, they would have switched long ago.

Makes me think when Mazda 6 gets a combined 6.6 l/100 km just how far fuel economy can be pushed
with good design before ever needing hybrids or diesels, I guess weight is also a big part of the problem too..

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What we're seeing is that the car segment buyers still want petrol but with increased fuel efficiency.
I know of several people now who have traded in their Commodores but instead of buying VFs, all of
them have gone for Mazda 6, the responses I get back have bee very positive especially on fuel usage.
Most saying that if they had known how good mid sizers were on fuel, they would have switched long ago.

Makes me think when Mazda 6 gets a combined 6.6 l/100 km just how far fuel economy can be pushed
with good design before ever needing hybrids or diesels, I guess weight is also a big part of the problem too..

Most new dual cab TD 4x4s are around the 10 L/100 K combined economy
That's not bad for a little engine,altho boosted in something like a block of flats

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

I hate to be a miner...... but i must........ i must, i saw a mate last night that i haven't seen for a while, hes a mad car dude with about 5 different cars, mostly japanese or euro, we got talking on cost of servicing his fleet, and i thought of this thread oh ma gawd .........2011 .....how time doth flyeth !
anyway we got around to the cost of his little bmw mini for general running costs, oh yeah baby 5.x litres per hundred k ......oh beauty mate, ...........then he mentioned for a clutch replacement, his face went red, i said how much, he said 10k, i said what is it modified or something? .......... nup standard ,
crikey ,i'm breaking into a cold sweat just thinking about it.
this is another reason i love the local cars........ big cars, no dual mass flywheels , no timing belt, straightforward to work on, cheap parts and local knowledge..

I think the clutch is an engine out job. I have heard that its expensive (mind you 10k is a rip off figure as a new gearbox is that amount (seeing as they're dodgy and thats what people have been quoted for a replacement).

But I agree with these euro cars. When you start looking at overall ownership you could buy two small jap car and be happy...if small cars are your thing.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by jpd80

We live in a very disposable society today, look at the oldest popular Falcon or Commodore now on the roads
and you'll find that it's most likely AU and VT/VX respectively, not too many E series or VR/VS anymore..

Engine and transmission rebuilders are basically being forced out of business due to designed obsolescence
and apart from people with passion for cars and big wallets to afford throwing cash into "money pits",
most people trade new cars after five years max and the second owners after another five years.
I wonder how many people will want to get stuck with an expensive ZF rebuild in later Falcons as they age,
this could see a lot more of them going earlier rather than hanging on like their older four speed auto cousins..

Can a hybrid or diesel give reliable running for then years in the hands of private / non-fleet owners?
Probably so and most likely this is the ambition of most car makers in cementing the credentials of their vehicles.

Whether a car survives beyond that seems to be almost irrelevant to 99% of the market, there's just no resale value.

Firstly, are there very few E series Falcons and VR-VS Commodes because they have crapped out or has the affluenza bug filtered down to the lowest rung of the financial ladder in society too?

Secondly, has engineered obsolescence created the five year turnover due to creating that doubt in peoples minds that their ride won't last much beyond the warranty period?

[Rodge]

2006 Honda Civic Hybrid $32,990 $17,100 48.2

When this article was written in 2011 a five year old Honda Civic Hybrid had retained value of 51.8%. I'd suggest there's nothing whatsoever wrong with this and its probably better than the average car out there. I also think a car of this size affords better protection to my wife and kids than some tiny micro IC buzzbox, (like a Hyundai Getz) some others might choose as a shopping basket. I crunched the numbers when we brought this vehicle for the Mrs use and the extra hybrid cost then ($6,100) over the regular same sized Civic had a payback period of 60,000 km's. The battery is warranted for 8 years and a replacement battery for this model is $900. In addition my wife says on regular occassions how much she enjoys the extra low down torque the hybrid battery provides over compareable cars.
Real world consumption, short trips extremly hilly terrain is in the 6-7 litre/100 km's range. She (who one is best not to argue with), is very happy with it...oh we did a little upgrade to the facelifted 2008 model that came with dynamic stability control, something I wanted for the Mrs for safety reasons and it only cost $9,000 to change-over. When was the last time anyone on here upgraded to a facelifted model and only cost $9,000. The current 2013 value of our 2008 hybrid is approx 50% of what we paid for it. I really would be extremly happy indeed if our other two vehicles retained their value that well.
(Just adding another perspective from real world experience).

Having said the above, Honda have now moved to a Lithium Ion battery-pack with their latest Civic hybrid model and replacement prices for these may be vastly more expensive, something like Prius battery packs which are also reported to be very expensive so other hybrids may not make as much financial common-sense sense as our 2008 model one.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Just saw something on the news that the Suzuki Alto is currently the cheapest car to run, would have probably been cheaper again if it wasn't tuned to run on PULP, I will never understand why makers of small, economy cars do this... Proton was the same.

If you look t it... there is a few dollars and cents between some of them.

Interesting that the old diesel I30 costs less to run than the petrol Focus.. may look into getting one in the next few months.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Firstly, are there very few E series Falcons and VR-VS Commodes because they have crapped out or has the affluenza bug filtered down to the lowest rung of the financial ladder in society too?

Secondly, has engineered obsolescence created the five year turnover due to creating that doubt in peoples minds that their ride won't last much beyond the warranty period?

probably both.

But here's the thing, who on earth would keep a German Luxury marque after the warranty has expired?
Could you imagine the costs associated with out of warranty repairs on BMW, Mwecedes and Audi?

Also on a different note, crashed the near new work Hilux a few weeks ago, hit on front right,
enough to crunch radiators, fan, bonnet, right guard and front panel and lights...guess how much the quote was?

$18,000 - labour was good but the cost of Toyota parts was hideous, our fleet manager had an absolute melt down...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by jpd80

probably both.

But here's the thing, who on earth would keep a German Luxury marque after the warranty has expired?
Could you imagine the costs associated with out of warranty repairs on BMW, Mwecedes and Audi?

Also on a different note, crashed the near new work Hilux a few weeks ago, hit on front right,
enough to crunch radiators, fan, bonnet, right guard and front panel and lights...guess how much the quote was?

$18,000 - labour was good but the cost of Toyota parts was hideous, our fleet manager had an absolute melt down...

Fair points jpd, case in point the DSG gearbox in the VW's when it goes pop two months out of warranty

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by jpd80

probably both.

But here's the thing, who on earth would keep a German Luxury marque after the warranty has expired?
Could you imagine the costs associated with out of warranty repairs on BMW, Mwecedes and Audi?

Also on a different note, crashed the near new work Hilux a few weeks ago, hit on front right,
enough to crunch radiators, fan, bonnet, right guard and front panel and lights...guess how much the quote was?

$18,000 - labour was good but the cost of Toyota parts was hideous, our fleet manager had an absolute melt down...

18k... good God. What was it I read that if you wanted to buy a medium to large car in parts you would need $1mil +....

Wonder how much lower our insurance would be if prices of parts were a little more... well reasonable?

Focus steering wheel, $1200 without the airbag, electric window regulator for my Citroen was $1800... Supply only. Didn't buy either!

10grand clutch jobs, 12 grand gear boxes....

Remember when cars were listed in terms of cost to repair with X damage at y km/h? Perhaps this should have a bearing on ownership cost (perhaps it already has via insurance premiums) just like they include depreciation in the 'cost' of ownership.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Fair points jpd, case in point the DSG gearbox in the VW's when it goes pop two months out of warranty

Or a Focus Powershift tranny 4 months out of warranty that has had an easy life

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

18k... good God. What was it I read that if you wanted to buy a medium to large car in parts you would need $1mil +....

Wonder how much lower our insurance would be if prices of parts were a little more... well reasonable?

Focus steering wheel, $1200 without the airbag, electric window regulator for my Citroen was $1800... Supply only. Didn't buy either!

10grand clutch jobs, 12 grand gear boxes....

Remember when cars were listed in terms of cost to repair with X damage at y km/h? Perhaps this should have a bearing on ownership cost (perhaps it already has via insurance premiums) just like they include depreciation in the 'cost' of ownership.

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Or a Focus Powershift tranny 4 months out of warranty that has had an easy life

All scarry thoughts, maybe those extended warranties are worth something these days...
The peace of mind that you're not going to get nailed...