Why cars cost more here than in the US

[Ohio XB]

After reading these last few posts, that's how us Yanks used to look at going to Canada, with the exchange difference, but you guys are talking about pure retail prices. With the US and Oz dollar being on par I have to wonder why so many of your items cost so much more. I can figure taxes added to the prices which we don't have here in the US, and a little more for less volume being shipped to Oz, but that's it. I can see prices being a little higher but not so much higher.

And if prices are still like that at the current exchange rate in a couple years my wife and I may have to think again about a trip to Australia. I wonder how much tourism is impacted by the higher prices?


Steve

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

Reading comprehension not your thing? That quote was from the M-Benz rep, about the range of product they sell outta Lexia Place... ie: What M-Benz sell.

Last I checked, CAT don't sell Smart Four2

Isn't that a Leakybear (German)?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

After reading these last few posts, that's how us Yanks used to look at going to Canada, with the exchange difference, but you guys are talking about pure retail prices. With the US and Oz dollar being on par I have to wonder why so many of your items cost so much more. I can figure taxes added to the prices which we don't have here in the US, and a little more for less volume being shipped to Oz, but that's it. I can see prices being a little higher but not so much higher.

And if prices are still like that at the current exchange rate in a couple years my wife and I may have to think again about a trip to Australia. I wonder how much tourism is impacted by the higher prices?
Steve

But Steve, What exactly does MSRP mean on a car price, is it what you pay to drive out with the car, or is it what you pay, and then some.
As some one has said before, the high end is always going to be determined by how much one is willing to pay, but at the low end high volume, other things will come into play.

Take for example a base model cruze, the GM website has it as $16500 (or thereabouts), where as the base cruze here goes for $21990 (2010 plated). But that $21990 includes roughly
$1800 GST
$700 Stamp Duty
$700 registration (12 months)

So is the US buyer paying $16500 and then paying thousands on top to get it on the road, whereas the oz buyer is paying $18700 and then paying extra to get it on the road. $2200 is not alot when you take into account volumes.

But then again the OZ cruze aint really worth $22990 (2011) or $21990(2010 plated), as much better cars like the lancer $20990 and mazda 3 $21990 will force the price of the cruze down even further over the next few months.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Actually my reading comprehension is quite stellar. The statement that I was responding to was where the Mercedes spokesman was commenting on the Australian car market as a whole. Here is an example of him speaking on the Australian auto market as a whole....

Now is he saying that Mercedes sold 1 million autos in Australia in 2010? No. He says "we" as in "Australians." Actually Australia sold 1.035 million vehicles in 2010, which can easily be referred to as 1 million.

So when he says "we" sell everything from the Smart Fortwo he is just naming the smallest vehicle sold in Australia (can you name one smaller?) up to the largest vehicle sold in Australia (140 tonne truck) and everything in between. I don't know why he would think we would not have such a range of vehicles available in the US. And the world's largest truck, twice what he quoted, is in the US.

Smart cars are not a Mercedes. Smart is a division of Daimler, not a division of Mercedes.

Note that they are not even sold at Mercedes' dealerships in the US.

I suppose we could say his statement could be taken both ways.

Anyway, this is the same guy who said the US market was 30 million vehicles when it is only around 12 million, so since he blew such a simple statistic to reference I don't have a lot of confidence in the rest of what he said.


Steve

I think when Mercedes says "140t truck" is referring to their prime mover that can pull 140t. So he was referring to his range as in city car to commercial, I thought the sub-text of that is he was getting a bit ****y with the interviewer.

Smart dealerships are usually integrated with Mercedes dealers here in Aus. Mini and BMW are the same, they have the different badges but pretty much apart of the parent. Unlike say Ford/Mazda or GMH/Suzuki who are almost totally separate. Link for Mercedes Aus http://www.mbaup.com.au/

From memory Mercedes said last year Australia was MB's fourth most important market. I don't remember of that was in terms of sale volume or gross profit.

As for the effect of the dollar on tourism... very bad in some parts of the country.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by snappy

I dont know maybe to learn , better your self and in 4 years times earn 5-20 times more then what the dole is paying

Of course, I was just making a snide remark.

Originally Posted by Pedro

When I go to the USA I always take minimum clothes so I can stock up over there at usually half what I would pay here.
In 2008 I bought a high quality Sony digital camera at Wal-Mart for $340, six months before it was released on the OZ market at $600.
I was going to buy a USA map for my TomTom but it was $119 here. I bought a three model newer TomTom loaded with USA & Canada fot $129 at Wal-Mart.

All the USA prices I've quoted are converted to OZ dollars.

Thats right, I pick up new release PS3 games for about $55 USD including shipping from playasia.com, and they are legit retail copies. For example, it cost me $54 AUD to get Dead Space 2 here from there which costs $110 in EB Games.

[Olbucko]

On the other hand don't get sick and have to go to hospital in the good old USA, if your not well insured you may well end up bankrupt! Here it's free. Also in the USA the average wage for many workers is only $8-9 per hour, here it is about $15 per hour. The rich may be richer in America but the poor are much poorer than us

I think the average worker is better off in Aust.

Stop wingeing, some people don't know how lucky we are.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by RPI

On the other hand don't get sick and have to go to hospital in the good old USA, if your not well insured you may well end up bankrupt! Here it's free. Also in the USA the average wage for many workers is only $8-9 per hour, here it is about $15 per hour.

I think the average worker is better off in Aust.

Stop wingeing, some people don't koow how lucky we are.

Thats why when you go for jobs there some offer included health care cover, or how their hospitality staff get paid very low hourly wage, but majority of people in the USA tip for good service so their wage comes from tips, much like the staff working for Princess Cruises, they pay their cabin staff and hospitality staff $50 a month, but one guy was pulling in $15-$20,000 a month in tips alone.

They also have a LOT more "Freedom" than what we have here in ol' Australia, the second ammendment.

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights.

In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Additionally, the Court enumerated several longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession that it found were consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits State and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]

We don't even have the right of free speech in our constitution.

The Australian Constitution does not have any express provision relating to freedom of speech. In theory, therefore, the Commonwealth Parliament may restrict or censor speech through censorship legislation or other laws, as long as they are otherwise within constitutional power. The Constitution consists mainly of provisions relating to the structure of the Commonwealth Parliament, executive government and the federal judicial system.(6) There is no list of personal rights or freedoms which may be enforced in the courts. There are however some provisions relating to personal rights such as the right to trial by jury (section 80), and the right to freedom of religion (section 116).

Not so free and lucky now are we? Just because we have free hospitals and a welfare system, doesn't mean we're the best thing since sliced bread, this country only goes down hill.

[69XWGT]

Take out the Luxury car tax and we still pay a fortune in Australia.

It's not just cars.
A 175 4 stroke Suzuki outboard is $9500 is the USofA and the same thing is $22000 in Australia.

I said it in the Hardy Normal thread and i'll say it again.

We get ripped off in Australia

[MOND30]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not so free and lucky now are we? Just because we have free hospitals and a welfare system, doesn't mean we're the best thing since sliced bread, this country only goes down hill.

Oh yeah, that sneaky old King of England is just dying to come into your home and push you around, but you'll be safe as long as you have a gun.

[Olbucko]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Thats why when you go for jobs there some offer included health care cover, or how their hospitality staff get paid very low hourly wage, but majority of people in the USA tip for good service so their wage comes from tips, much like the staff working for Princess Cruises, they pay their cabin staff and hospitality staff $50 a month, but one guy was pulling in $15-$20,000 a month in tips alone.

They also have a LOT more "Freedom" than what we have here in ol' Australia, the second ammendment.



We don't even have the right of free speech in our constitution.



Not so free and lucky now are we? Just because we have free hospitals and a welfare system, doesn't mean we're the best thing since sliced bread, this country only goes down hill.

Not sure if the unrestricted right to keep and bear arms is such a necessary freedom any more,(I am a licenced shooter), in the 21st century. I don't mind putting up with some restrictions if it might save someones life.

In the USA the constitution may give you freedom of speach but if someone does not like what you say they might shoot you. I have never heard of an Australian citizen being stopped from saying whatever they liked.

[XRtowcar]

Strange but a five door Focus Zetec hatch is virtually the same list price here as the UK.
Would of thought their market would of been large enough to add some discount.

[EDManual]

the car companies are not giving discounts when the our dollar is so much better valued than it was.

ie 70c now 100c, is what near 50% higher value, but prices are the same,

And how can petrol be so dear? (oil price is up 50 %, from when we were paying around 1.10, but so is our dollar, why is the price up?? same thing, companies ripping everyone off, and the govt doesnt mind as they pay tax... bigger profits the better sadly.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

From memory Mercedes said last year Australia was MB's fourth most important market.

umm, is that: 1. Europe, 2. USA, 3. Asia, 4. Australia, 5. Africa??

[GT 160]

What about classic cars??

The prices here are absurd in comparison to the US.

Import a vehicle yourself and your saving anywhere from $10K+ and thats being conservative. I've seen price differences pushing close to $30k Aus and that includes all importation costs and more often than not the vehicles were of a much higher quality than advertised here.

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

So when he says "we" sell everything from the Smart Fortwo he is just naming the smallest vehicle sold in Australia (can you name one smaller?) up to the largest vehicle sold in Australia (140 tonne truck) and everything in between. I don't know why he would think we would not have such a range of vehicles available in the US. And the world's largest truck, twice what he quoted, is in the US.



Smart cars are not a Mercedes. Smart is a division of Daimler, not a division of Mercedes.

M-B Australia do sell that range in Australia, with the 140 tonne truck being a road-going vehicle, not off-highway. Not sure how that makes the cars cost more though - if there wasn't a return on an individual product, eg Smarts or 140 tonne trucks, why would they want to sell them here in Oz? Nobody is forcing them to.

fitzwa I'd say classic car price differences are influenced by supply and price of non-classic cars. Eg you can't buy a new Mustang at a sensible price, or a 2-10yo one cheaply, as an alternative to a 64-70 Mustang out here. Not to mention the number of old Mustangs in the states would still be a lot higher than here despite importers best efforts.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

But Steve, What exactly does MSRP mean on a car price, is it what you pay to drive out with the car, or is it what you pay, and then some.
As some one has said before, the high end is always going to be determined by how much one is willing to pay, but at the low end high volume, other things will come into play.

Take for example a base model cruze, the GM website has it as $16500 (or thereabouts), where as the base cruze here goes for $21990 (2010 plated). But that $21990 includes roughly
$1800 GST
$700 Stamp Duty
$700 registration (12 months)

So is the US buyer paying $16500 and then paying thousands on top to get it on the road, whereas the oz buyer is paying $18700 and then paying extra to get it on the road. $2200 is not alot when you take into account volumes.

But then again the OZ cruze aint really worth $22990 (2011) or $21990(2010 plated), as much better cars like the lancer $20990 and mazda 3 $21990 will force the price of the cruze down even further over the next few months.

MSRP means "Manufacturer's Suggested retail Price." It is basically a price at which the customer and dealer can start haggling over what the customer is going to pay for the car. They are called "car dealerships", not "car stores." There basically is no REAL price set on the car, only a price suggested by the manufacturer.

After a price has been agreed upon there is also sales tax (of the percentage where the customer lives, where I live it is 7.75%) added to the total cost. There is also additional costs for the title work. Another additional cost is registration (license plate) and that is only for 1 year. That cost, where I live, it about $80. It varies greatly from State to State.

To give an example, a car might have a sticker on the window with an MSRP of $17,233. The customer might be able to haggle and get the car for $16,500, but then will add options that bring the price up to $18,700. Then the sales tax will be calculated on that amount ($1449.25) to come up with the vehicle cost to the customer, $20149.25. Then the cost of the title and registration is added to that, figure about another $125, maybe less. That is what the customer will be charged when the sales papers are written up.

I would say we have less taxes to pay on our vehicles than you do in Oz, at least here in Ohio. In Texas, registration is calculated on what KIND of car it is, and it's original sales price. If you buy a luxury car you may pay $600 a year for your registration. A Chevy Cruze, may be only $100 a year.



Steve

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by RPI

On the other hand don't get sick and have to go to hospital in the good old USA, if your not well insured you may well end up bankrupt! Here it's free. Also in the USA the average wage for many workers is only $8-9 per hour, here it is about $15 per hour. The rich may be richer in America but the poor are much poorer than us

I think the average worker is better off in Aust.

Stop wingeing, some people don't know how lucky we are.

I would imagine that the doctors, nurses, and surgeons don't work for free, and that the hospitals were not built nor are operated with free electricity, etc. I would imagine these costs are paid by someone, namely your government, and the government does not have it's own profit generating enterprise (buisiness), so I would imagine that you pay taxes that is specifically for healthcare, so no, it is not free. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I don't know how effective your system is because I know nothing about it. Canada has a healthcare system funded this way and they are also told by their government whether or not they need surgery, or how long they can wait (sometimes 6 months to a year) to get it rather than the doctors being able to make these things happen. This is the reason for the many Canadians in American hospitals and clinics. I hope your system is working better than the Canadian system.


I know in many, if not most, parts of Australia you have to hook up a trailer to your car and haul your rubbish to the dump. I take my rubbish to the end of my driveway and it gets picked up every week, just about anything I put out there. I do not get a "rubbish pick-up bill" so it is free.

No it's not. Money comes out of my Property Tax for this service.

Anytime the government offers it's citizens something for "free" you can believe you are paying for it somehow. The government does not have it's own money, it has your money. It collects taxes and that is the source of all of it's money.


Wages in the US are driven down everytime there is a lot more workers than jobs. This may happen in Australia too if your economy is going through a similar situation. Here, since there are so many people waiting for each job the employers figure SOMEONE will do the job for less money becuase they will be even more desparate for a job than the others, so they offer less pay. This is a sad reality of business in the US but one that has happened over and over. I hope it doesn't happen there.



Steve

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Thats why when you go for jobs there some offer included health care cover, or how their hospitality staff get paid very low hourly wage, but majority of people in the USA tip for good service so their wage comes from tips, much like the staff working for Princess Cruises, they pay their cabin staff and hospitality staff $50 a month, but one guy was pulling in $15-$20,000 a month in tips alone.

They also have a LOT more "Freedom" than what we have here in ol' Australia, the second ammendment.



We don't even have the right of free speech in our constitution.



Not so free and lucky now are we? Just because we have free hospitals and a welfare system, doesn't mean we're the best thing since sliced bread, this country only goes down hill.

I was not aware of the lack of freedoms in Australia. Does this mean that you cannot go on television and tell jokes about your Prime Minister that are demeaning? Does it mean you cannot put a sign out in your yard criticising your government's actions? This happens here all the time.


You can tell me if this NRA video is accurate or is propaganda about gun laws in Australia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyb3gBaqlwk

Everytime gun laws are passed and guns have to be turned in it is only law abiding people who turn them in. The criminals keep their's and enjoy the piece of mind knowing less victims are armed.

This is an example of the people I know who have a Concealed Carry Permit. It is quite opposite of the vigilante attitude that those who oppose concealed carry have.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzGY3...eature=related

At the end of this story the Police say to obey everything the the robber says. Well, a lot of times they just shoot you anyway.




Steve

[Ben73]

Yes we are ripped off in Australia relating to the price of stuff. But what you gonna do about it? It's not going to change, some people complain every now and then, but nobody takes much action. And its not going to change in the future.

[SteveJH]

@ Ohio XB,

That clip would have been about 14 years ago after port arthur going from the VT commodore in the back ground.

Way more then 6,000 firearms were collected. There were probably that many locked up in the cells under the Tamworth Police station when I went to an open day there as a kid (best friends dad was a policeman).

Semi-Auto's were pretty much banned unless you were a professional shooter or owned a large property, same for pump action shotguns. Pump Action rifles are still legal as soon as I know.

As far as I understand it, to get a gun license these days (don't have one but know people who do) you just need to pass a background check and have a legimate reason to purchase. Reasons being hunting license for state forrest, written permission to shoot on a private property, member of a rifle/pistol club.

Also, with regard to garbage collection, in town the only reason you'd need to take a trailer to the tip would be if you've been gardening or something and have too much rubbish to fit in your bins.

With hospitals, my understanding is that for non-urgent treatments you can possibly go on a waiting list, for anything serious you wont go on a waiting list. Of course the solution for jumping the queue for elective surgeries is to be a member of a health fund/have health insurance...

Unemployment in australia is currently around 5% (Australian Bureau of Statistics), Employers cannot simply lower the pay rates just because its an employer's market in Australia. The absolute minimum hourly rate in australia for an adult is $15/hour or $569.90 for a full time working week. I was making $21 an hour just stacking shelves at Big W (Australian Walmart) during my university holidays.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

@ Ohio XB,

That clip would have been about 14 years ago after port arthur going from the VT commodore in the back ground.

Way more then 6,000 firearms were collected. There were probably that many locked up in the cells under the Tamworth Police station when I went to an open day there as a kid (best friends dad was a policeman).

Semi-Auto's were pretty much banned unless you were a professional shooter or owned a large property, same for pump action shotguns. Pump Action rifles are still legal as soon as I know.

As far as I understand it, to get a gun license these days (don't have one but know people who do) you just need to pass a background check and have a legimate reason to purchase. Reasons being hunting license for state forrest, written permission to shoot on a private property, member of a rifle/pistol club.

Also, with regard to garbage collection, in town the only reason you'd need to take a trailer to the tip would be if you've been gardening or something and have too much rubbish to fit in your bins.

With hospitals, my understanding is that for non-urgent treatments you can possibly go on a waiting list, for anything serious you wont go on a waiting list. Of course the solution for jumping the queue for elective surgeries is to be a member of a health fund/have health insurance...

Unemployment in australia is currently around 5% (Australian Bureau of Statistics), Employers cannot simply lower the pay rates just because its an employer's market in Australia. The absolute minimum hourly rate in australia for an adult is $15/hour or $569.90 for a full time working week. I was making $21 an hour just stacking shelves at Big W (Australian Walmart) during my university holidays.

A $15 minimum wage in Australia. Wow, I was not expecting that, especially just to stock shelves. I think I will have to start another thread in the bar for this.

Unemployment rate in the US is about 9.8% right now. Because of that employers are not offering much money because so many people need a job, they have no problem finding workers.

...you just need to pass a background check and have a legimate reason to purchase. Reasons being hunting license for state forrest, written permission to shoot on a private property, member of a rifle/pistol club.

I noticed that "home protection" and "personal protection" were not listed, but you can't list everything, I know. I guess being fascinated with firearms and collecting them is not a "legitimate reason?"

....for anything serious you wont go on a waiting list.

Does the doctor or the government make that decision, whether it is serious or not?


Thanks for all the info.

Steve

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Everytime gun laws are passed and guns have to be turned in it is only law abiding people who turn them in. The criminals keep their's and enjoy the piece of mind knowing less victims are armed.

Steve

That's pretty much what happened here. We paid a tax / levy to the then conservative govt to buy these back and nobody complained too loud even though we were giving the crims a free kick. Funny how the same conservatives are now whinging about a levy to re-build the infrastructure after the Qld floods - the worst in history.

We are a funny lot in Aust to the point of having our rights limited and having a foreign queen not elected by the people as our head of state. This has in no way affected our 'actual' rights in any way, but certainly has the potential to.

Having said that, life couldn't be better for most despite being ripped off in regards to car choice and price.

****

[Ohio XB]

Aussies are usually perceived here as being a less stressed lot than us Yanks. That means a lot.


Steve

[Jim Goose]

I was not aware of the lack of freedoms in Australia. Does this mean that you cannot go on television and tell jokes about your Prime Minister that are demeaning? Does it mean you cannot put a sign out in your yard criticising your government's actions? This happens here all the time.

There no laws about telling jokes about our pollies, in fact Australia used to have many TV shows in which comedians/ commentators used to be critical etc... though certainly some of these shows are disappearing.

As for signs in your yard, no laws prohibit you there either unless its local council laws which your breaking (though of course any swear words would be not allowed)....


As for Hospital waiting lists, that is up to how urgent it is. It is up to the local hospital board usually to decide this. If the local Hospital cant take you in urgently (cancer etc..) then you get sent to another Hospital free of charge. The only drama we have is because we have a lack of hospital beds, doctors and nurses.

the government still trys to force people onto private health insurance but in reality our system here isnt really that bad. We have Medicare which gives out a lot of heavy discounted medication and some doctors are free to visit, while others you get back a percentage of the money you paid.

The state runs the ambulance service as well so there is no arguing over insurance and cover....

[Yellow_Festiva]

Hey Steve. I'm certain you can't use 'personal protection' to get a gun here. There are very strict laws regarding ownership.

We love making fun of our leaders (called 'taking the ****') & do so often.

My garbage gets taken away once a week from the end of my driveway and if I have large items I just call the council the week before to arange a pick up.

Doon't wory. There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about us Aussies.

Anyway. I'm of to feed my pet kangaroo.

cheers!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I noticed that "home protection" and "personal protection" were not listed, but you can't list everything, I know. I guess being fascinated with firearms and collecting them is not a "legitimate reason?"

You can't use a firearm for self defence or to defend your property, use it on someone invading your house and chances are you'll go to jail for a while.

To get a permit for pistols here in Victoria (Category H), you have to be a member of a shooting club, use that particular firearm in at least 6 competition shoots a year and I think be approved for the license by the club's president or something similar. You can't just own one because you like them.

[GK]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Aussies are usually perceived here as being a less stressed lot than us Yanks. That means a lot.


Steve

I think that's true, however if we had to fight a War of Independance and then a civil war, I'd bet we'd be more stressed.

I'd also bet that we would be much more careful about our rights being taken away etc, etc. We have certainly had it really easy here, and we have a "she'll be right mate" attitude. It's a blessing mostly, but in some ways, it works against us.

GK

[ST]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Hey Steve. I'm certain you can't use 'personal protection' to get a gun here. There are very strict laws regarding ownership.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You can't use a firearm for self defence or to defend your property, use it on someone invading your house and chances are you'll go to jail for a while.

To get a permit for pistols here in Victoria (Category H), you have to be a member of a shooting club, use that particular firearm in at least 6 competition shoots a year and I think be approved for the license by the club's president or something similar. You can't just own one because you like them.

Very true and it needs to stay that way. 'Personal protection' gun ownership should be completely abolished.

[2011G6E]

Perhaps if we didn't have one of the very very few places in the world where you can't drive a brand new left hand drive car on the road, we'd be better off.

Don't go to a website like Chrysler.com and "build and price" something like a 300C...you'll cry when you see what they pay, especially now that you just have to look at thier price and convert it straight into our dollar. Here in Oz, the 300C for example has to be sold as a "premium luxury car" because of the ludicrous extra taxes and charges lumped onto it, but in the USA, they're just another big sedan (until you start getting into the higher spec ones of course, like anything).

I love Aussie cars, I love our new G6E...but i also am realistic enough to know that without the massive amount of protectionism given to Australian manufacturers of cars, they'd be laughed off the showroom floor for price and features.