Commodore exports failing - Carsguide

[Carby]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Last I checked, sweden is part of europe (which has a land mass 40% more than australia), but has a population around 35 times more. If campbellfield or elizabeth were surrounded by 700 million people, they would probably do ok too, even if 98% of the people didnt buy their cars.

Gee Bob thanks for the Geography lesson. However your logic is flawed - Volvos are thick on the ground In Australia, US and who knows where else.

Ohh and guess what, Australia and the US are surrounded by water( the stuff that covers two thirds of the world surface). Now the Swedes look to be able to export all over the world, and Holden and Ford Aust ...well I doubt the Swedes would know what a Holden and Falcon are.

So again the Swedes can do it, whats wrong with Aussie (Manufactured) vehicles?

[ltd_on20s]

like i said previously in another thread, everything comes down to population size.

60 million people here? no issues at all.

the entire auto industry in australia would be safe to an extent.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by Danny

Sounds like something Ford should be saying re the Falcon.

FoMoCoAu aren't that self aware.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

FoMoCoAu aren't that self aware.

Wow, you have the audacity to speak of awareness when you spare little thought about the differences in the two manufacturers' business plans. Here's half a clue - One is, at the least, making profits and scoring major global contracts, and the other has just admitted to having no clue, so where does that leave your insolence?

[Brazen]

VE is old its coming to the end of its life and sales and exports will drop off. It is now one of Holden's longest running models.

It would be like going back to 1994 and them still selling brand new VNs.

[1TUFFUTE]

honestly..was there even one person here who ever thought the plans to export either commadores, monaros, LWB and police cars...would ever take off..i mean seriously ford lets fomoco do what we want down here as lond as we give them world class designed tucks to rule the world. Holden seems to have 10 year olds playing monopoly with aussie dollars..haha

[EDManual]

I think if another country has a tariff for entry from our cars, we should have one against their cars. If not, then not.

Apparently many of the other countries have tariffs, that are not called tariffs.===================

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I think if another country has a tariff for entry from our cars, we should have one against their cars. If not, then not.

Apparently many of the other countries have tariffs, that are not called tariffs.===================

We do too.
If the government support an industry (as they do the Australian motor industry) that is effectively the same as putting a tariff on all imports that compete with that industry.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

We do too.
If the government support an industry (as they do the Australian motor industry) that is effectively the same as putting a tariff on all imports that compete with that industry.

Australian car industry has suffered massively at the removal of tarriffs, our government's
focus on "level playing fields" and cheap cars for Australians is just giving the market away
to forein built cars, we may as well be giving hundreds of millions to Thailand and Korea,
the stupidity of our politicians is staggering, no other country would do this, it's just insane,
Game, set and match to Asia thanks to government ineptness..

[Bossxr8]

Free trade is anything but. We signed the free trade agreement with Thailand, and Ford started to send Territorys over there, just after that started the Thai government introduced a huge tax on cars with an engine size bigger than 3 litres, effectively killing the Territory in Thailand overnight, yet our government does nothing while Thailand is selling tens of thousands of cars here. Our government seriously needs to grow a pair and stop being such pushovers. There's no way the yanks would have tolerated that, they would have given it back to Thailand 10 fold.

Our government is totally p55weak. Its a disgrace.

Our government is trying to show the work we are a finacial power now, yet they allow a weaker country like Thailand to kick sand in our face. Sickening.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Free trade is anything but. We signed the free trade agreement with Thailand, and Ford started to send Territorys over there, just after that started the Thai government introduced a huge tax on cars with an engine size bigger than 3 litres, effectively killing the Territory in Thailand overnight, yet our government does nothing while Thailand is selling tens of thousands of cars here. Our government seriously needs to grow a pair and stop being such pushovers. There's no way the yanks would have tolerated that, they would have given it back to Thailand 10 fold.

Our government is totally p55weak. Its a disgrace.

Our government is trying to show the work we are a finacial power now, yet they allow a weaker country like Thailand to kick sand in our face. Sickening.

Agree 100%

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

We do too.
If the government support an industry (as they do the Australian motor industry) that is effectively the same as putting a tariff on all imports that compete with that industry.

No it's not, other countries like Korea and japan support their industry too and set up tougher import barriers,
be they in the form of tarriffs or other restrictions associated with reducing competition with local products.
It's time Austraila took off the blinkers and realised that we are ceding a complete industry to othe countries.

There are only about six countries in the world that can design and build cars from scratch and all of us
should never ever loose sight of the fact that Australia is in that very rarified company and the day
we lose that ability is the day we lose something so special....

This is much more than getting cheap cars but listen to selfish rabbit on, that's all they see or care about........

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There are only about six countries in the world that can design and build cars from scratch and all of us
should never ever loose sight of the fact that Australia is in that very rarified company and the day
we lose that ability is the day we lose something so special....

This is much more than getting cheap cars but listen to selfish rabbit on, that's all they see or care about........

So the other five must be China, USA, South Korea, Japan, Britain, Germany, France, italy, Spain, Sweden, Russia, malaysia (and to name quite a few others).

The problem is, some people confuse tariffs with peoples misunderstandings of what is good for a country. Japan is a very rich country, who's people would have no problem buying $36000 (yen equivalent) commodores or falcons. But being 100% reliant on oil imports, the government realises it would be ruinous for the country if their car fleet consisted of 6 and 8 cylinder cars.

But why should we only protect the car industry. Australians only buy Approx. $12 million of Australian built cars a day. But we produce about $30 million a day in oil products, which competes with about $90 million a day in imported oil. Wouldnt it be beneficial to australian oil explorers and producers if the government added a $1 tax to each litre of oil (petrol).

If we also protected the steel industry, the plastics industry, the oil industry and the banking industry, we could all be filling up our $60,000 commodores with $2.50 a litre petrol. But of course the government would require more PAYG tax to pay more for their car fleet. Simple fact is, people dont become richer by governments taxing more or protecting industries.

[Bossxr8]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257951002237D7

This sums it up well, the FCAI knows Australian manufacturers get screwed with FTA's and is asking the government to do something about it in future agreements. Hopefully the government listens this time instead of doing their best to destroy Australian manufacturing.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by GoAuto

China is the world’s biggest motor manufacturer, producing some of the cheapest cars in the world and aggressively targeting export markets.

It has built its industry behind a 25 per cent import tariff barrier and a raft of support mechanisms from the Beijing central government and provincial governments.

Among these aids are a strongly favourable exchange rate for the yuan and big subsidies for factories and other expenses.

While South Korea has a vehicle import tariff of eight per cent, it too has been adept in protecting its industry from external competition.

Surely not, Don't they all work for a bowl of rice and that is why Australians are overpaid, yadda, yadda.

Open up your eyes Federal Government, we are not playing on a level field here.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

So the other five must be China, USA, South Korea, Japan, Britain, Germany, France, italy, Spain, Sweden, Russia, malaysia (and to name quite a few others).

The problem is, some people confuse tariffs with peoples misunderstandings of what is good for a country. Japan is a very rich country, who's people would have no problem buying $36000 (yen equivalent) commodores or falcons. But being 100% reliant on oil imports, the government realises it would be ruinous for the country if their car fleet consisted of 6 and 8 cylinder cars.

But why should we only protect the car industry. Australians only buy Approx. $12 million of Australian built cars a day. But we produce about $30 million a day in oil products, which competes with about $90 million a day in imported oil. Wouldnt it be beneficial to australian oil explorers and producers if the government added a $1 tax to each litre of oil (petrol).

If we also protected the steel industry, the plastics industry, the oil industry and the banking industry, we could all be filling up our $60,000 commodores with $2.50 a litre petrol. But of course the government would require more PAYG tax to pay more for their car fleet. Simple fact is, people dont become richer by governments taxing more or protecting industries.

It's a simple question Bob, do you support the local auto manufacturing industry or not?
If the answer is no, may i suggest your presence here is as a protagonist, not a Ford supporter?


Back on topic,
Holden have just realised that by building Cruze here, they are watching growth in
low cost cars versus decline in their most profitable line, the Commodore, what will they do?

IMO, they are stuck with a big plant, making way too many products per month
and unless they seriously cut back numbers, their whole Commodore business plan will implode.
That's ther real reason behind the current rumblings, Commodore profits have collapsed and GM
is wondering whether the whole Zeta project was a waste of time when the new Epsilon offers
way more fuel economy in a line of cars below and above Commodore, so much internal pressure...

Conversely, FoA and EcoLPI is about to hack into Omega fleet sales big time, is the tide turning?

[prydey]

to me, tariffs aren't about australians supporting the local products but the government protecting its local industries. people can still buy what they like.

[IDT]

All this talk about tarriffs???
Tarriffs = higher prices
Tax Cuts to business = Tax Hikes to individuals
Protectionism doesn't work! Put a 30% tarriff on imported cars than watch locally made cars become 30% more expensive and not an additional job made.
Propping up manufacturers by applying tax cuts is a temporary measure to save jobs for votes by politicians. Over the long term this simply means that as people leave these companies they are not replaced and the company still gets an unnecessary and unfair tax cut at the expense of the general population.

Free enterprise is and always will be the best method. Remember we enjoy the highest standard if living and the lowest unemployment at our own expense. In this country the harder you work the more you are penalised by income tax. I for one would gladly accept a big tax break if it meant unsustainable companies no longer existed. Sorry but I am not a communist and so i think that my tax dollars should be spent on infrastructure, hospitals, schools etc. Not propping up private companies.

[prydey]

so when the aussie auto industry can't continue to support the local suppliers, and then eventually closes itself, what happens to the tens of thousands of people employed in this industry??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by WAForce8

All this talk about tarriffs???
Tarriffs = higher prices
Tax Cuts to business = Tax Hikes to individuals
Protectionism doesn't work! Put a 30% tarriff on imported cars than watch locally made cars become 30% more expensive and not an additional job made.

Not at all, we've seen the reverse where tariffs have gone from 25% down to 10% for years
and in that time seen our locally produced car sales decimated whild Korea and Japan grow..
and in that time, imported car companies just pocket the cash they once gave to the government.

Please tell me you're not that gullible to believe when the last 10% tariff is removed,
those import companies won't just pocket the cash agin, because that's what they're doing.


Protection my A55......

[prydey]

i thought tariff was at 5%

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

i thought tariff was at 5%

For SUV's they are.

[jpd80]

My point being that import car companies don't pass on the savings of removing tariffs...
Gullible Aussies think tarrif removal / level playing field free enterprise will balance out everything.
Not when you have predatory tactics of Korea whos government backs Hyundai/Kia
to the hilt as do the japanese with Toyota/Honda/mazda ect..

Are we that stupid to not see what's happening?

Hello, legalised price/profit transferring and absorption of our little bity market.....
Toyota were sloppy and got caught, they won't make the same mistake again...

On topic,
Holden is now producing around 10,000/mth but sells just over 6,000/mth with slahed exports...
Are we going to see a ripper fire sale for December or will Holden need to cut back production?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Are we going to see a ripper fire sale for December or will Holden need to cut back production?

They did it two years ago with $29,990 drive away omegas.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

They did it two years ago with $29,990 drive away omegas.

Oh, no doubts they will come out guns a blazin' in the public areana with unreal retail bargains
but I think they'll get their ears well and truly boxed by Ford in the Fleet sale areana which is
about two to three times larger than the retail segment for falcon and Commodore.

If Holden loses that, they they will have to sell omega at $29,990 forever and a day just to make ends meet...
because Ford isn't going to play their silly game in front of the public and I'm betting Holden will keep
SV6 prices up to push buyers to Omega based International/Equipe POS at discounted prices...

(Dear Ford,
rather than chase exports, i'd rather see massive EcoLPI taxi and fleet sales night and day...)

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

(Dear Ford,
rather than chase exports, i'd rather see massive EcoLPI taxi and fleet sales night and day...)

Its funny I started a thread a while back suggesting them bring back a taxi pack. Everyone seemed to disagree with me.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Its funny I started a thread a while back suggesting them bring back a taxi pack. Everyone seemed to disagree with me.

Perception.
Since a few shots of G6E EcoLPI as taxis have emerged, i'd say attitudes are starting to change,
especially since the remade XT looks far less dowdy/old man these days but hey, G6 is great too and
anything that can stop XR6 from being overused as a fleet special has to be good news for Ford.

IMO, Ford should offer fleets all three choices, EcoPLI, Ecoboost I-4 and maybe I-4 /V6 diesel
and let them decide...
I'm betting taxis and some govco fleets would take EcoLPI and some Ecoboost but
an I-4 diesel with say 6l/100 km would give similar running costs to EcoLPI but super low CO2
something becoming more and more important these days....

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Oh, no doubts they will come out guns a blazin' in the public areana with unreal retail bargains
but I think they'll get their ears well and truly boxed by Ford in the Fleet sale areana which is
about two to three times larger than the retail segment for falcon and Commodore.

If Holden loses that, they they will have to sell omega at $29,990 forever and a day just to make ends meet...
because Ford isn't going to play their silly game in front of the public and I'm betting Holden will keep
SV6 prices up to push buyers to Omega based International/Equipe POS at discounted prices...

(Dear Ford,
rather than chase exports, i'd rather see massive EcoLPI taxi and fleet sales night and day...)

Its funny you mentioned this, i've just seen new Holden adds, with the punchline being something like "the Holden coming out swinging sale". Or something like that, I usually just switch off whenever Holden ads come on.

I think they will just slash and burn Commodore prices just so they can stay no.1 for another year, the Mazda 3 is within a few hundred and they have already said they won't slash 3 prices just to be number 1, so Holden will slash prices for sure.

On a positive LPi numbers are starting to increase now that MkII is in production.


This caught my eye, just some of the ways some countries try to limit imported cars.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25795200127C5C

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its funny you mentioned this, i've just seen new Holden adds, with the punchline being something like "the Holden coming out swinging sale". Or something like that, I usually just switch off whenever Holden ads come on.

I think they will just slash and burn Commodore prices just so they can stay no.1 for another year, the Mazda 3 is within a few hundred and they have already said they won't slash 3 prices just to be number 1, so Holden will slash prices for sure.

On a positive LPi numbers are starting to increase now that MkII is in production.


This caught my eye, just some of the ways some countries try to limit imported cars.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25795200127C5C

Company philosophy.
GM's pursuit of the coveted sales crown is one of the main reasons they went broke,
the idea is to Keep factory order books full regardless of sales level and pretend all is well
then clear up the mess with huge incentives like "cash on the hood" or massive price reductions.

Meanwhile Ford is over with fleet customers, 75% of their business where they're pushing EcoLPI
for all its worth and getting volume sales whilst FG II launch returns retail prices back to normal.

I'm not normally a betting man but I'd say that Holden is having kittens over what to do with Commodore,
it's their main car and the thought of Cruze occupying ever increasing production space is actually
not a good thing if all they do is replace $40K Commodore sales with $20K Cruze sales...
I can see Holden going out backwards if that keeps happening, especially if Ford snatches back fleets,

It's as though Holden substituted one bad idea (exports) for another, building less profitable cars here..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's a simple question Bob, do you support the local auto manufacturing industry or not?
If the answer is no, may i suggest your presence here is as a protagonist, not a Ford supporter?


Back on topic,
Holden have just realised that by building Cruze here, they are watching growth in
low cost cars versus decline in their most profitable line, the Commodore, what will they do?

IMO, they are stuck with a big plant, making way too many products per month
and unless they seriously cut back numbers, their whole Commodore business plan will implode.
That's ther real reason behind the current rumblings, Commodore profits have collapsed and GM
is wondering whether the whole Zeta project was a waste of time when the new Epsilon offers
way more fuel economy in a line of cars below and above Commodore, so much internal pressure...

Conversely, FoA and EcoLPI is about to hack into Omega fleet sales big time, is the tide turning?

It has to because at the moment FoA would have to be selling the best range of cars it's ever had. Sure no wagon or LWB however with FG, Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Ranger and Escape/Kuga and another wagon based on Ranger these are class leading or neartop vehicles in their segments. The marketing whip was cracked when the US head flew in so the basis is there, it just needs to be continously sold. Even Coca Cola knows no matter how well known you are, marketing is never ending to stay front of mind.