Holden Volt

[Bossxr8]

It sells for over 40k in the US so it will be nowhere near that here. Holden have already stated it will be well over 50k.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It sells for over 40k in the US so it will be nowhere near that here. Holden have already stated it will be well over 50k.

Given that a Mustang in the USA is available as a base model for $23,000 (not sold here so it isn't a valid thing probably), and the 300C sells for in the late twenties early thirties yet sells here for more than twice as much. moving up in the market, a full-electric Tesla costs around $105,000 in the US but over here costs over $225,000, and the horrid little Nissan Leaf costs $35,200 in America, and costs "upward of $60,000" here in Oz (oddly enough it's hard to track down a review website that quotes the price...they're obviously afraid of people reeling back in shock from paying so much for such a tinny little car), so you're probably spot on with the "well over 50K" statement...I'd plump for somewhere up nearer towards 70K going by the average pricing difference between the Yank version and the Aussie version of cars that are on sale here...

[bigsta]

It has a standard RRP $39145 in the US and they regularly do promos for less than that added to this the govt there has a tax rebate for EV cars which brings it down to US$31645 http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car/

I expect to sit around the same level as the piris in mid to late $40s and a upper spec one in the $60s but i would expect to see some drive away pricing to get it out there for $39990 drive away or something and who knows that stupid greens controlled ranger of a PM might copy the US and put a EV rebate out to encourage it before the elections.

[bigsta]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Given that a Mustang in the USA is available as a base model for $23,000 (not sold here so it isn't a valid thing probably), and the 300C sells for in the late twenties early thirties yet sells here for more than twice as much. moving up in the market, a full-electric Tesla costs around $105,000 in the US but over here costs over $225,000, and the horrid little Nissan Leaf costs $35,200 in America, and costs "upward of $60,000" here in Oz (oddly enough it's hard to track down a review website that quotes the price...they're obviously afraid of people reeling back in shock from paying so much for such a tinny little car), so you're probably spot on with the "well over 50K" statement...I'd plump for somewhere up nearer towards 70K going by the average pricing difference between the Yank version and the Aussie version of cars that are on sale here...

Thing to remember is that alot of the yank imports are either specialities like the mustang or something like the 300c which is hit by the 33%+ luxury car tax, but yeah does not matter whether its a drill, a tv, a loaf of bread or a car we always get screwed in pricing here compared to the US.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by bigsta

Thing to remember is that alot of the yank imports are either specialities like the mustang or something like the 300c which is hit by the 33%+ luxury car tax, but yeah does not matter whether its a drill, a tv, a loaf of bread or a car we always get screwed in pricing here compared to the US.

Yep especially the when you compare wages and conditions.

Yanks don't have the dole, artificially high wages, holiday loading, 4 weeks holidays a year, sickies, medicare, workers comp or unfair dismissal.

[bigsta]

good point flappist

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by bigsta

Forget sales figures in the states almost a quarter of Americans are unemployed right now.

Its a game changer in that its the first electric car that you can take up the coast on the family trip and it will work like a petrol car using 3.5l/100kms or for the average person who does less than 160kms in a day (which would be 80%+) they would never need to buy petrol again and no special charging socket is required just a standard power point.

Look at how popular the priris is and thats a piece of crap which uses more gas than a corolla, TSI golf or a fiesta but the douchebags love it

$50k is not a huge price really and ive hear strong rumours that it may go sub $40k coupled with a 8 year warranty which will ease any worries and the fact that they are gonna save $100+pw in fuel i believe it will do quite well here.

Quite brave of GM to take this on actually, the last time electric cars were around in the states in the 90s the oil companies bribed a bunch of republicans to tax the **** out of them to make them more expensive and less practical but they were pure EV.

I much prefer a V8 as i dont buy into all this greenie crap but while petty is getting expensive i may consider it for the mrs.

That's pretty much how I see it, as a game changer but for the Mrs. Hopefully it comes with a memory drivers seat with two positions activated by the different keys so I can use if for some of the boring local city A to B trips rather than burning circa 20 litres per 100 km's when I just want to get from A to B.

Pricing will be interesting, and our family interest is contingent on it being realistic BUT I'm with the others and expect they'll will milk the novelty of this technology for all its worth and price at whatever they think the market will bear. Performance has to be vastly better than the rather sluggish 85KW and almost totally torqueless 173 nm's served up by my wife's current Honda Civic Hybrid. (Its the quintessential local shopping basket, trust me, you wouldn't want to drive it any further ) I think she will be impressed by more than doubling of the torque in this Volt compared to what she's used too at present, it'll certainly make all the hills around here much easier to handle.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bigsta

It has a standard RRP $39145 in the US and they regularly do promos for less than that added to this the govt there has a tax rebate for EV cars which brings it down to US$31645 http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car/

I expect to sit around the same level as the piris in mid to late $40s and a upper spec one in the $60s but i would expect to see some drive away pricing to get it out there for $39990 drive away or something and who knows that stupid greens controlled ranger of a PM might copy the US and put a EV rebate out to encourage it before the elections.

You're dreaming if you think it will sell here for less than 60k.

It sells for 40k in the US, and then they get the rebate which is unavailable here, and cars in the US are so much cheaper than they are here. The Holden big wigs have even said themselves it will be expensive, well over 50k.

[aussie muscle]

Maybe the volt is not as electric as it seems; it's not a true electric vehicle, but a hybrid same as the prius.


http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...a-true-ev.html

...The Volt's Vehicle Line Executive Doug Parks confirmed that there is, on occasion, a mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and drive wheels in an interview with Norman Mayersohn of The New York Times. This isn't idle speculation or educated inference; it's an admitted fact...

[Rodge]

Ironically enough that might help its cause as some countries look to impose road user charges on pure electric vehicles whereas plug-in hybrids might remain as being classified as hybrids and exempt.

Nissan Leaf pricing announced the other day at $51,500 is a positive indicator for competitive pricing on the Volt.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

Maybe the volt is not as electric as it seems; it's not a true electric vehicle, but a hybrid same as the prius.


http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...a-true-ev.html

...The Volt's Vehicle Line Executive Doug Parks confirmed that there is, on occasion, a mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and drive wheels in an interview with Norman Mayersohn of The New York Times. This isn't idle speculation or educated inference; it's an admitted fact...

GM lied, surely not

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Ironically enough that might help its cause as some countries look to impose road user charges on pure electric vehicles whereas plug-in hybrids might remain as being classified as hybrids and exempt.

Nissan Leaf pricing announced the other day at $51,500 is a positive indicator for competitive pricing on the Volt.

How?

They are 2 different vehicles from 2 different manufacturers.

Volt is bigger plus it sell for another 5k more in the US.

Backs up previous reports that it will sell for over 60k here, which for the life of me I can't figure out how that is "competitive".

Its based on a Cruze and will sell for 3 times more.

[Rodge]

$85,000 Kiwi and on Holden's website you can buy a regular Cruze on special for $25,990.
Can't see any mention of a special warranty on the battery but TBH didn't look that hard.

The pricing almost beggars belief.

[Flocktome]

Love it or hate it, its a stance towards choice. As it stands we are screwing the earth over at an unsustainable rate. Whilst this car may actually be comprised of parts which cause more damage than the imoact of burning through 20 yrs of fuel, its "fuelling" (pardon the pun) the bebate about going eco. There are better tecnologies arising like the bloom box and ither naturally sourced batteries that will within 15 years become affordable and be a resl life changer.

I for one am sick of my money going to oil companies. Will i buy this? No, but it gives me hope we're moving in the right direction again. Leave the fuel for the old v8 classics ;)

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Should we be worried that the Volt will charge-up Holden's sales ?

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/530...ad-test-review

Seems a better bet than the range anxiety one would get with the Nissan Leaf. Also with 111Kw's and circa 370 nm's it should give a considerably more purposeful drive than the Leaf's 80 KW's and 280 nm's. No special charging power point system needed either, a regular 10 amp socket is all that's required.

Doesn't look too bad just quietly....shame it doesn't have a Ford badge on it :(

i still maintain this car was and is a april fools day joke gone wrong...in that it hapened. if you think this car looks even OK you have PROBLEMS......seriously

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

...it needs an engine of a calculated size and power output that can provide enough power at the most efficient rev range, and it looks like 1.4 liters is it.

so you're better off with a pure IC system, rather than this heavy complicated system they put in hybrids, if you need a 1.4 litre 4 cylinder petrol engine.

Originally Posted by Article

Where hybrids mate a conventional engine to an electric motor and utilise both - either individually or paired - to drive the wheels, the function of the petrol engine in the Volt is to drive the generator which recharges the battery pack. At high speeds, however, or under heavy load, the generator also provides additional drive

How is the Volt different from other hybrids? sounds like the same thing to me, that the engine charges the batteries and under heavy load it assists the electric motors.

[nicco]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It's because there's no such thing as a free lunch, and also why those rediculous too-good-to-be-true free energy and perpetual motion machines don't, and never will, work. There's always losses, quite big ones, in any system, which is why it needs such a "large" engine.
Locomotives...yes indeed, diesel ones do have a diesel engine, running a generator, which sends power to the traction motors at the wheels. They have large engines indeed...four locos dragging up to 10,000 tonnes of coal is driven by electric motors powered by the generator...and each of those locos has a massive (in every sense of the word) 140 liter two-stroke supercharged diesel V12, putting out 4000hp, with a maximum revs of only 900rpm.

In the Volt, they couldn't, as one might at first assume, have a small one or two cylinder generator like you might run your camp fridge and lights off or a tiny diesel engine...it needs an engine of a calculated size and power output that can provide enough power at the most efficient rev range, and it looks like 1.4 liters is it. The ones in our locos, even when you open the throttle fully, don't feed the power in until the computers think it needs the extra juice. I imagine the Volt would be the same, if the motor doesn't actually drive the wheels. You could mash the throttle, and unless the generator needed to charge the batteries, it probably wouldn't rev up and burn fuel unneccisarily. To be more accurate, I would assume the car would accelerate, using the batteries, and keep the petrol engine spinning along at the same revs. Must feel weird.

If you "did away with the batteries" you'd be surprised how much fuel you'd burn through driving a suitable generator. The ones in locos, the 4000 class ones we have out here, are about six feet in diameter and a couple of feet thick, bolted directly to the crankshaft of the V12. The engines use a staggering amount of fuel, making up for it with the amount they can pull. In fact they aren't allowed to leave Gladstone with less than 4000 liters of fuel in them because they might not get out and back.
A car running an engine to run a suitable sized genny to give acceptable performance would need a big engine and a big generator. The Volt system with batteries is better...not by much though.

Hi, just wanted to add some comments to your post.

There is one important difference between the loco and the Volt; the battery pack. I work in mining so get to play with the electric drive haul trucks which are set up the same as the locos; ie: big engine to big generator to big wheel motors.

By slipping batteries in between the generator and the motors you add essentially an accumulator to the system. You have a store of electrical energy which drives the motors and the generators only job is to replenish the store.

In doing so, the engine/generator combo only needs to be sized to trickle charge the battery pack. Keep in mind that probably somewhere around 90 or 95% (figures pulled from thin-air) of driving is going to be at your base level consumption (cruising); your charging system only needs to provide a slight bit more energy than that.

Add in as well that they have a mechanical link to the wheels from the engine during high load as well and your charging system can be smaller again (as long as it stays above the base level consumption) as the drain on the battery pack will be smaller again during the high load periods.

So really, comparing the locos/haul trucks to the volt isn't quite apples and apples due to the battery pack *accumulator*.

To sum up: I was suprised at the size of the petrol engine also.

On the car itself; I like the styling of the front, I am quite turned off by the styling of the back. At the dollars people are throwing around, it will only be the most well off people that can even consider it. I know it doesn't interest me enough to look seriously at one.


On a side note: I've always wanted to build a small off road buggy on the same principles (small motor bike engine attached to a generator feeding batteries or a flywheel to wheel motors) but the reason has always been for easy switching between 2 and 4wd.

[Bossxr8]

Just as expected the Volt barely sells.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B830026DD9A

Priced from $59,990 plus on-road costs, Holden’s Volt has recorded 93 sales since its launch late last year, with 80 of those coming in November and December with the company’s own registrations, dealer test vehicles and orders from ‘early adopters’ – typically organisations who use the vehicle as a marketing tool and individuals who buy it to reflect their passion for technology and the environment.

The figures this year better reflect the ongoing demand for the Volt in the marketplace, with sales dropping back to 14 units in January, nine in February and four in March, with April pushing back up to 11 before last month’s 15 new registrations was its best thus far in 2013. That adds up to 53 sales in five months.

Holden has not specified sales targets and will not be drawn on admitting whether the Volt will be profitable, preferring instead to highlight its status as a “technological tour de force”.

Holden’s executive director of sales and marketing Philip Brook also told GoAuto at the VF Commodore launch last month that the company was still ruling out a cut-price model sans luxury equipment to generate more sales.

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just as expected the Volt barely sells.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257B830026DD9A

Priced from $59,990 plus on-road costs, Holden’s Volt has recorded 93 sales since its launch late last year, with 80 of those coming in November and December with the company’s own registrations, dealer test vehicles and orders from ‘early adopters’ – typically organisations who use the vehicle as a marketing tool and individuals who buy it to reflect their passion for technology and the environment.

The figures this year better reflect the ongoing demand for the Volt in the marketplace, with sales dropping back to 14 units in January, nine in February and four in March, with April pushing back up to 11 before last month’s 15 new registrations was its best thus far in 2013. That adds up to 53 sales in five months.

Holden has not specified sales targets and will not be drawn on admitting whether the Volt will be profitable, preferring instead to highlight its status as a “technological tour de force”.

Holden’s executive director of sales and marketing Philip Brook also told GoAuto at the VF Commodore launch last month that the company was still ruling out a cut-price model sans luxury equipment to generate more sales.

Maybe they can rule out the Volt altogether, joke of a car at that price.