Can FH surpass the VF?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Since when did Graziano take over Ford AUS? Isn't head of Ford a Geelong Bloke, Martin Burela? .

Burela took a new posting /promotion to Shanghai in October 2010...

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Where you been for the last 2 years and 5 months...

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=36485

Sleeping!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

What does that mean for people like me who are looking to update. Are we all waiting in anticipation for a car that will be an FG with a couple of chrome mouldings and different front and rear bumpers?. Grazziano's admission suggests to me that there might be a lot of disappointed people next year.

Not a lot of disappointed people, which of course is the root problem for Falcon.

[Billydean]

I looked at the FG when it first came out and didn't like the look of it, then the FG2, which is worse.

If Ford get the exterior styling of the FH right, they'll sell, a revamped FG won't.

[GS608]

As much as it pains me to say my next car will be a VF SS..had a look today..absolutely mind blowing interior compared to the FG..the auto seems much improved too..on par with ZF IMO..

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by DRB

As much as it pains me to say my next car will be a VF SS..had a look today..absolutely mind blowing interior compared to the FG..the auto seems much improved too..on par with ZF IMO..

I don't think you'll be alone. VF looks great in the flesh.

[Nikked]

Seen a Black VF SS the other day... looks better then the photos...

[FPV8U]

The VF looks are growing on me and the interior is very impressive, I won't buy one because I'm not interested in spending 45K with a brand I don't like, but many will and I wish Holden success.

Grazianos comments don't exactly inspire my confidence in the final Falcon, but if its a good car with the power train and specs to my liking it will be a real toss up between the final Falcon and the first Mustangs.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by zebby

Totally agree. I think that when the drip feed of the VF started coming out and all it was going to get, alarm bells at Ford must have started ringing. Updated Falcon was not looking so flash, and the white flag raised. I think a lot of people are expecting a lot more than what the update is actually going to bring. Hope I am wrong.

VF had nothing to do with it. Ford were at a crunch point in terms of committing investment for a next generation Falcon and decided the game was up. There was also the not-insignificant pressure from head office to come up with a sustainable business plan which never came to fruition.

Originally Posted by csv8

I would like to see wood trim instead of silver spears on G6E, and heated/cooled/driver seat,electric passenger seat, one touch down up glass, more sound proofing..my roof sounds like a machine gun in the rain !! auto wipers, but we could discuss what we would like anon...Malibu has good kit level for the price...

I'm pretty sure that even if it had those things, you wouldnt buy one.

[GS608]

Originally Posted by ESP

I don't think you'll be alone. VF looks great in the flesh.

I think black is the pick of the bunch..makes the poxy looking black in the front bar disappear.

[GQ_Smooth]

Personally speaking I would be happy if it was incrimintally better in every way to the FG2. Build quality, tech, fuel economy, performance etc...

Fingers crossed it looks awesome, don't want to haven an ugly car in the garage for the next 20 years.

[SumoDog68]

Interesting article by Julian Edgar n Autospeed about role of journalists in Ford OZ demise

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_113004/article.html

[mik]

Originally Posted by zebby

Totally agree. I think that when the drip feed of the VF started out and all it was going to get, alarm bells at Ford must have started ringing. Updated Falcon was not looking so flash, and the white flag raised. I think a lot of people are expecting a lot more than what the update is actually going to bring. Hope I am wrong.

I would have to disagree, imo the powers at Ford made the decision too can the falcon some time ago(years ago) even though it only came to light recently, its fairly obvious once they started removing different versions of the big henry its days were numbered.

[FNQracing]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Interesting article by Julian Edgar n Autospeed about role of journalists in Ford OZ demise

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_113004/article.html

He makes some interesting points, but its Ford Oz that is to blame, not the journos. Blind Freddy could see the long term decline in large cars, but they elected to stick with the same formula despite them selling less and less, year on year.

But I can certainly understand Fords slow reaction. 50 odd years of the formula working for them would be hard to turn away from.

I think motoring journos are more often than not completely irrelevant anyway, at least in Australia. Look at Wheels Car of the Year. A long running joke.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Since when did Graziano take over Ford AUS? Isn't head of Ford a Geelong Bloke, Martin Burela? Thought he would have fought tooth and nail to keep Ford Australia alive. Lets all petitition for Graziano to go pack his suitcase and go back to Seppoland. . He don't believe in us, neither should we believe in him. With an attitude like that, if Graziano was head of Apple, it would have been long gone.

Marin Burela was putting up a fight, hence why he was "promoted", ie sent somewhere else because he was getting in Detroit's way.

As for the VF, it has absolutely zero to do with Fords closure announcement. The Commodore hasn't been the Falcons main competition for years, its all the imported stuff that has stolen sales, not the Commo.

The VF looks crap, the FH will kill it for looks. It might not have the tech levels but if it looks better than that's half the battle won.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by FNQracing

He makes some interesting points, but its Ford Oz that is to blame, not the journos. Blind Freddy could see the long term decline in large cars, but they elected to stick with the same formula despite them selling less and less, year on year.

But I can certainly understand Fords slow reaction. 50 odd years of the formula working for them would be hard to turn away from.

I think motoring journos are more often than not completely irrelevant anyway, at least in Australia. Look at Wheels Car of the Year. A long running joke.

What exactly do you think Ford Oz could have done?
Building and selling $20k Focus' would have been even less as profitable, even selling 5k a month.

Fact is with high labour costs, high AUD, high export tarriffs, low import tarriffs there really isnt anything Ford OZ could have done other than keep doing what its always done.

The only possible vehicle that could have saved Ford Oz, would have been to build and export the Ranger (and the 7 seat wagon version)
But would have required many hundreds of millions, if not billions to reconfig and upgrade the factories.
But when you can get it built in Thailand for a 1/4 of the cost, and then export it here for basically nothing, then it would be extremely hard to justify.

[Billydean]

Ford should have realised thirty years ago that people want economical cars, but they refused to build them, easier to import them.

They won't stop selling cars, just making them in OZ.

What happens with people like me who have always bought Australian made cars, and always will?

We'll go elsewhere.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Marin Burela was putting up a fight, hence why he was "promoted", ie sent somewhere else because he was getting in Detroit's way.

As for the VF, it has absolutely zero to do with Fords closure announcement. The Commodore hasn't been the Falcons main competition for years, its all the imported stuff that has stolen sales, not the Commo.

The VF looks crap, the FH will kill it for looks. It might not have the tech levels but if it looks better than that's half the battle won.

Have you already seen the 2014 Falcon in the flesh?
Just what I suspected about Graziano. So it's no surprise if Graziano orchestrated the closing of Ford Discovery Centre. Graziano will be my new cuss word .

At the end of the day, why couldn't Ford have moved production of Falcon and Territory, or at least Territory only, to Thailand. Would any of us forum members still consider Falcon and Territory if they were made in India, China or Thailand? Falcon was never given a chance. Having seen the FG in various states of disassembly, I can't even see any evidence of LHD design 'protected'. It does not look any more LHD compatible than the BA. Was this canned during FG development?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Billydean

Ford should have realised thirty years ago that people want economical cars, but they refused to build them, easier to import them.

Err 30 years ago Ford did make small cars here, and built them until it no longer became profitable to do so.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

What does that mean for people like me who are looking to update. Are we all waiting in anticipation for a car that will be an FG with a couple of chrome mouldings and different front and rear bumpers?. Grazziano's admission suggests to me that there might be a lot of disappointed people next year.

If you are waiting to buy a “great new model,” you will be sorely disappointed. Logic dictates it will be the cheapest facelift in the history of facelifts. I’m thinking something like the difference between an EB3 and an ED.
Forget about when the decision was ANNOUNCED, it was made years ago, and the upgrade budgeted accordingly.

If you are looking to get one of the Last Falcons, because it IS the last of the Falcons, then hopefully like me you will love it regardless.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

. Logic dictates it will be the cheapest facelift in the history of facelifts. I’m thinking something like the difference between an EB3 and an ED.

EB2 and ED

[Guzz226]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Have you already seen the 2014 Falcon in the flesh?
Just what I suspected about Graziano. So it's no surprise if Graziano orchestrated the closing of Ford Discovery Centre. Graziano will be my new cuss word .

At the end of the day, why couldn't Ford have moved production of Falcon and Territory, or at least Territory only, to Thailand. Would any of us forum members still consider Falcon and Territory if they were made in India, China or Thailand? Falcon was never given a chance. Having seen the FG in various states of disassembly, I can't even see any evidence of LHD design 'protected'. It does not look any more LHD compatible than the BA. Was this canned during FG development?

They well maybe moving Territory to Thailand - the Ranger comes from there and a SUV version is being developed - and the Territory name plate has not been confirmed as being retired (unlike Falcon).

So who knows...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Logic dictates it will be the cheapest facelift in the history of facelifts.

Complete new front and rear ends , bit more then a cheap face lift.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by FTE

EB2 and ED

Meh, don’t know if it was official, but it was certainly known as the EB3 at the time. It had the centre lap-sah belt and couple of other tweaks, point being that when it went to the ED, it was really only the grill (and options packs) that changed.

Originally Posted by Nikked

Complete new front and rear ends , bit more then a cheap face lift.

Nats I was being a bit factious with the ED comparison, but point remains that anyone expecting an “all guns blazing” “Commodore Killer” will be disappointed.

[FalconXV]

Hmm I've lowered my expectations a bit after reading all this :( But I still find Graziano's comments pretty jaw dropping, if that's the attitude of PD, what's the point?

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

If you are waiting to buy a “great new model,” you will be sorely disappointed. Logic dictates it will be the cheapest facelift in the history of facelifts. I’m thinking something like the difference between an EB3 and an ED.
Forget about when the decision was ANNOUNCED, it was made years ago, and the upgrade budgeted accordingly.

If you are looking to get one of the Last Falcons, because it IS the last of the Falcons, then hopefully like me you will love it regardless.

Its likely to get the front end design cue from the fusion. Squarer front lights etc......makes sense to do this as it will prepare buyers for what is coming with the one ford design globally maybe.?

I wonder if there will be a facelifted terri.....considering its just been redone recently.

[xr6turbo270kw]

Marin Burela was putting up a fight, hence why he was "promoted", ie sent somewhere else because he was getting in Detroit's way.

Marin Burela was sent away because he didn't want to cop the backlash from no local focus
After Promising it.

[jmack]

i think the fgs interior was talked up a bit cause the ba/f is pretty ordinary(hard and i,llfitment) than the au.the fg looks ok but there is some cheapness look to certain parts but on a whole not bad

[FTE]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Meh, don’t know if it was official, but it was certainly known as the EB3 at the time. It had the centre lap-sah belt and couple of other tweaks, point being that when it went to the ED, it was really only the grill (and options packs) that changed..

Doubt it was official.
Back in 1994 I had an August 1993 EB2 GLi which had centre lap sash etc including ED colour trim. Only noticeable difference was grill. AC gas was different too but it was definitely a series 2.
Anyway back to the new models

[Billydean]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Err 30 years ago Ford did make small cars here, and built them until it no longer became profitable to do so.

They found it cheaper to import them, whilst continuing to produce large cars they saw as what people wanted. Over the years the Falcon market has declined to non-profitability, but they still refused to build the cars people wanted. Now the answer is to stop production all together. It seems like a plan to me, they don't want to build cars here because in the world scheme of things Australia doesn't matter.

What matters to Australia is Australian jobs, but not to Ford.