Economists in Reverse Over the Car Industry

[b0son]

Probably not, but if the union/workers aren't willing to make any worthwhile concessions, what is the government to do? The award rate is the lower limit, anything between that and what they're on is surely fair game if they are serious about wanting to stay in work?

[turbodewd]

What I cant about those in our government do not understand that business isnt about making friends and having fun. Its about beating the competition.

The goal isnt free trade.

The goal is to win trade!

Australia should only adopt free trade measures when it suits us.

As for the Aussie auto industry, it doesnt seem profitable to make cars here considering how high our minimum wages are compared to everywhere else! Yanks or Spaniards who are in basic jobs earn but a fraction of what they would here. Alas it is CLEAR that Detroit wasnt interested in keeping the Falcon because they want global cars. And the Taurus trumps the Falcon unfortunately, even tho its a ridiculously large gas guzzler. Its wider, longer and heavier than the Falcon, its AWD and chews absurd amounts of fuel.

[EBII Fairmont]

This is what I can't understand. The Government has pledge $20 millions for marriage counseling which I personally see as a waste of money. If you have family issues I feel sorry for you, but it should not be funded by the tax payer. Those having the issues should pay for that service out of their own pocket. That $20million would go a long way to keep somewhere like SPC going.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Taurus trumps the Falcon unfortunately, even tho its a ridiculously large gas guzzler. Its wider, longer and heavier than the Falcon, its AWD and chews absurd amounts of fuel.

Taurus or whatever doesnt need to be a good car, just made in the USA, making Ford USA money and Keeping Ford USA staff employed. Thats the fate of the falcon.

JP

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by EBII Fairmont

Those having the issues should pay for that service out of their own pocket. That $20million would go a long way to keep somewhere like SPC going.

I guess thats is the difference between ideologies and the policy followed to achieve those ideals.
Seems the traditional family unit is more important than inefficient business.
Both needs seem to have issues and should pay for it out of their own pocket, But sad mums and dads dont have the borrowing power, parent company or opportunity to become more efficient to be able to afford saviour.

JP

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by b0son

Probably not, but if the union/workers aren't willing to make any worthwhile concessions, what is the government to do? The award rate is the lower limit, anything between that and what they're on is surely fair game if they are serious about wanting to stay in work?

The application for the money was from Coca Cola not the employees union. Perhaps the government should be going on about the absolutely over the top entitlements of executive staff in our businesses.

Of course they won't. That apparently is all well earned.

[jpblue1000]

Dont forget about where these different businesses are run, what electorates they are in cadbury/SPC etc. OOPS

JP

[monte.b]

Seems to me if the taurus if bigger ect and uses lots of fuel,it just wont sell here ,this is why the falcon is not selling ,but as ive said before ,put the same amount of people ,luggage ect in a 4 cylinder car and it will use the same amount of fuel ,the car makers are cheating on their fuel consumption figures ,they take them with just the driver and no fuel in the tank

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by monte.b

the car makers are cheating on their fuel consumption figures ,they take them with just the driver and no fuel in the tank

No their not

'The figures displayed on the fuel consumption label are based on specific tests conducted by vehicle manufacturers to demonstrate a vehicle’s compliance with the Australian Design Rules (ADRs). All vehicles are tested under standardised, carefully controlled conditions in specialised vehicle emission laboratories. To ensure the quality and consistency of test results, laboratories and their facilities are subject to audit by the Australian Government.
The test standard for the current fuel consumption label is specified in ADR 81/02 Fuel Consumption Labelling for Light Vehicles. The label displays the fuel consumption and carbon dioxide (CO2) values for the vehicle obtained from a standard dynamometer test conducted under laboratory conditions. This test is specified in United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UN ECE) Regulations which sets out the procedures for determining fuel consumption and CO2 emissions from light vehicles.'


JP

[b0son]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The application for the money was from Coca Cola not the employees union.

But the injection of funds would mean the currently unsustainable wages would continue, so they'd still be a beneficiary.

[Maka]

DR Sharon Stone is the smoking gun here, pretty significant to speak out in support of SPC in direct contrast to her bosses. Will be interesting how this will play out, at least she put her community first, imo she deserves plenty of respect especially if she gets disendorsed for her actions.

cheers, Maka

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by b0son

But the injection of funds would mean the currently unsustainable wages would continue, so they'd still be a beneficiary.

No. Not correct, "currently unsustainable wages" are your thoughts not SPC Ardmona's
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-0...claims/5237440

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

No their not

'The figures displayed on the fuel consumption label are based on specific tests conducted by vehicle manufacturers to demonstrate a vehicle’s compliance with the Australian Design Rules (ADRs). All vehicles are tested under standardised, carefully controlled conditions in specialised vehicle emission laboratories. To ensure the quality and consistency of test results, laboratories and their facilities are subject to audit by the Australian Government.
The test standard for the current fuel consumption label is specified in ADR 81/02 Fuel Consumption Labelling for Light Vehicles. The label displays the fuel consumption and carbon dioxide (CO2) values for the vehicle obtained from a standard dynamometer test conducted under laboratory conditions. This test is specified in United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UN ECE) Regulations which sets out the procedures for determining fuel consumption and CO2 emissions from light vehicles.'


JP

Hence why its neigh on impossible to achieve the same figures in real life, but, with out a standardised test, the figures would be worthless...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bill M

No. Not correct, "currently unsustainable wages" are your thoughts not SPC Ardmona's

Not much talk of wages there, just allowances. $45k is $3-6k more than award rates for typical process work, and when you factor in reduced cost of living pressures in somewhere like Shepparton, they're actually on reasonable wages for the work.

In any case, if the reasoning put forth by SPC were true, that its the high dollar that's hurting them, with all signs pointing to a falling dollar, CCA would ride it out and wait for things to improve. The fact they're unwilling to put their own funds in to be able to be in a position to capitalize when things improve, shows how much faith they have in the business.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by Bill M

No. Not correct, "currently unsustainable wages" are your thoughts not SPC Ardmona's
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-0...claims/5237440

Of course we have to discount the report because it comes from the ALP's anti Australian mouthpiece

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by b0son

But the injection of funds would mean the currently unsustainable wages would continue, so they'd still be a beneficiary.

Tony, is that you?

Nice to see you bending over for your big business masters.

How ironic that the biggest leaches on the public purse, the ones who get more ridiculous benefits than anyone else, have the hide to say Australian workers should lose some of their pay and conditions. How do these freakin' clowns sleep at night.

On a pile of big business bribes and broken promises I assume.

[ryeman]

Conservatives all over the free world believe in the 'trickle down' effect of driving down wages and it has never been seen to work anywhere ever since Reagan tried that con in the eighties....but they have nothing else to fall back on, it's their schtic, and Rupert approves.

Ps....if a labour member had said HER PM had lied, imagine Rupert's response then!

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by b0son

Not much talk of wages there, just allowances. $45k is $3-6k more than award rates for typical process work, and when you factor in reduced cost of living pressures in somewhere like Shepparton, they're actually on reasonable wages for the work.

In any case, if the reasoning put forth by SPC were true, that its the high dollar that's hurting them, with all signs pointing to a falling dollar, CCA would ride it out and wait for things to improve. The fact they're unwilling to put their own funds in to be able to be in a position to capitalize when things improve, shows how much faith they have in the business.

What bollocks! There is talk of wages and allowances.
The point of the article is clear and refutes claims made by people like you.

[Franco Cozzo]

Ah well at least when it turns to **** you can blame the Libs for it as its happened on their watch.

[Brazen]

Its a good point that the car market itself is growing each year, its not a decline industry. Australia is the 15th largest car market on the planet - it is insane that we do not want to produce for such a large domestic market.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Its a good point that the car market itself is growing each year, its not a decline industry. Australia is the 15th largest car market on the planet - it is insane that we do not want to produce for such a large domestic market.

Mate, the problem is our wages, we are relatively wealthy. Its simply wiser to make cars in Thailand unfortunately - cheap!

Compare a holiday to Thailand to FNQld for example....

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

the hide to say Australian workers should lose some of their pay and conditions

Isnt it better than losing their jobs altogether? Its not like they would drop below the award, and if they think that's too low, they can always take the generous redundancy packages their EBA provides. Meanwhile, a position becomes available for someone who wants the work.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Mate, the problem is our wages, we are relatively wealthy. Its simply wiser to make cars in Thailand unfortunately - cheap!

Compare a holiday to Thailand to FNQld for example....

If wages were the issue then Germany, Japan, South Korea, Canada, France, Italy, Sweden and the United Kingdom would not have a car industry.

In a highly automated and capital intensive industry like car-making the big issues are efficiency, economies of scale and Government support.

Wages have little to do with Thailand being a success in car making. If car makers were after cheap wages they would look at Vietnam or Indonesia or Taiwan or one of many other countries in the region. The reason that Thailand has such a big industry is due to Government policy and support.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Mate, the problem is our wages, we are relatively wealthy. Its simply wiser to make cars in Thailand unfortunately - cheap!

Compare a holiday to Thailand to FNQld for example....

Problem is in Thailand you cant guarantee the prostitutes are actually women.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Brazen

If wages were the issue then Germany, Japan, South Korea, Canada, France, Italy, Sweden and the United Kingdom would not have a car industry.

In a highly automated and capital intensive industry like car-making the big issues are efficiency, economies of scale and Government support.

Wages have little to do with Thailand being a success in car making. If car makers were after cheap wages they would look at Vietnam or Indonesia or Taiwan or one of many other countries in the region. The reason that Thailand has such a big industry is due to Government policy and support.

All of those countries you mentioned send cars around the world. We send barely anything out because we cant. Our dollar is too high but it allows us to get things in cheap. That's the issue.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

All of those countries you mentioned send cars around the world. We send barely anything out because we cant. Our dollar is too high but it allows us to get things in cheap. That's the issue.

Australia is not the first and won't be the last country to have an appreciating currency. It is important to have the Government support in place as well as the economies of scale in building lots so you can ride it out. The Australian car makers are way too exposed to handle a currency fluctuations unlike other car making countries which offer protection to their car makers or help by manipulating the currency themselves (like Japan).

It is such a waste to throw away billions in equity built up in an industry like car making simply due to a heightened currency that will eventually return to norm.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

All of those countries you mentioned send cars around the world. We send barely anything out because we cant. Our dollar is too high but it allows us to get things in cheap. That's the issue.

Even that could be probably be overcome. The real problem is none of them are owned by Australians. Therefore if exported, which is the only way to maintain scale of manufacturing in our segmented sales environment, the Australian made product is competing with US homegrown product, putting US workers out of work and reducing homeland profits.
The only reason Toyota might survive is because they have an export programme sanctioned by Toyota HQ.
Ford and GM Australia died because ford and GM US didn't want to compete and or continue to support dwindling sales of large cars. More cost effective and better economics to sell USA made cars here than Australian made cars there.
In my opinion this has been a long held goal of the non Australian companies

JP

[Brazen]

Wouldn't it be good to see an Australian auto-maker form whilst we still have the expertise that we can get by hiring the Ford and Holden employees.

A company that specialises in high-margin off-road, robust Utes like the LandCruiser 79 series or Land Rover Defender. As the 79 and Defender die due to more stricter safety standards there will be a global gap in the market.

There are global brands synonymous with luxury (BMW, Mercedes etc) or performance (Porsche, Ferrari etc) but there are very few synonymous with off road robust 4wds.

A high-profit, niche producer of the best 4wds Utes in the world, to be used in agriculture, construction, mining, defence and private purchases.

[mik]

I believe part of the problem with spc getting a handout was they still made a profit albeit a small one, and their poverty stricken owners (coca cola /alcatel ....... insert belly larf here) isnt making enough profit,
quick lets pass the plate around for them.
if i was the one handing out cheques, i would be thinking about not giving them any spondooly also.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Wouldn't it be good to see an Australian auto-maker form whilst we still have the expertise that we can get by hiring the Ford and Holden employees.

A company that specialises in high-margin off-road, robust Utes like the LandCruiser 79 series or Land Rover Defender. As the 79 and Defender die due to more stricter safety standards there will be a global gap in the market.

There are global brands synonymous with luxury (BMW, Mercedes etc) or performance (Porsche, Ferrari etc) but there are very few synonymous with off road robust 4wds.

A high-profit, niche producer of the best 4wds Utes in the world, to be used in agriculture, construction, mining, defence and private purchases.

There was a vehicle exactly like what you describe called OKA, was developed by a WA man. Look into it I'm on my phone so can't show us.