Fords indifferent quality loses another customer

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

Better advice than telling them to "stick with it", "it will be alright in the end", "Ford will *eventually* get their act together", "it's just part of owning a Ford and you get used to it", ... etc. etc. etc.

There are a metric assload of other cars to pick from out there and it would do all the zealots a world of good to go and try them out. For most people, the car is the 2nd most expensive thing they will ever buy/own, and in this vein doesn't it make sense to at least *examine* the pool of options? Hell, you'd have to be doing pretty well financially to ignore every alternative on the basis of zealotry... :

Of course, for those who are zealots this is meaningless, and they will continue to buy their favourite irrespective of its capabilities and value. :sm_headba

Each to his own! it:

(Not sure what the comment about being a contributing member was intended for, by the sounds of it you're insinuating that by contributing to the forum, that one is obliged to offer uninhibited promotion of the products of the manufacturer? Maybe you're right, I should stop contributing to the site until I think that "Fords are number 1" etc.)

I'm just surprised how disenchanted you seem to have become regarding Ford (and especially FPV) over the years - you yourself used to be a fanatic. :

[BlueRaven]

These are the sole reasons why I won't buy a new Ford untill I know the problem with quality control is fixed. The build quality on our AU is laughable.

Simple as that.

[bobski]

Originally Posted by telstar1

i have had trouble with toyota dealers where one saleperson didnt now what the other one was doing and sold a car i wanted to someone else. i found the car i have now a 98 au wagon. the saleperson said they would hold onto it till i got money for it. they held onto for a month when i picked it up they gave it a wash and cleaned the inside again got a full tank of fuel the only problem i have with it was the starter motor stuffed up. i bought a ford from a holden dealer the salespeople were great service department were crap.

Ahh - such a perfect example of WHY Ford fails in service. I bought my XR6T second hand with not many K's. Not only did it NOT have a full tank of petrol (in fact it was nearly empty), but they hadn't vacuumed it either. Admittedly, this was a used car, but it was a major ford dealer in western sydney and they are all the same company. You've just made maybe 10k on a used car deal (being realistic with trade in prices), and they can't throw $50 worth of fuel in so you feel good driving away.

I remember reading (and this was on a forum so grain of salt required) that Ford tries to interfere with the dealerships in Sydney and really screws them down on what they get paid to fix warranty issues etc, this might go towards why they struggle to compete (although I have bad management at my workplace too, so its not a foreign thing regardless of the industry).

[YELLAUTE]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

These are the sole reasons why I won't buy a new Ford untill I know the problem with quality control is fixed. The build quality on our AU is laughable.

Simple as that.

I have thought the same thing, unfortunatly my wife requires a new car (deserves it as well, she works hard and earns good money to pay for it) she wants the reliability, safety and comfort of a new car. Ford just doesn't do it for her anymore. Think we might be down at the BMW yard to-morrow The 130 is looking good and she can afford it. By, By, Zetec Focus.

As the LTD is out of warrantee and I have paid to get it put right I might just keep that one (its just turned over 60k so should have lots of life in the old windsor left) as long as I keep it away from Ford non service centers

The BA2XR8 6 speed ute is another thing all to-gether, it has issues that will cost a small fortune to fix (diff noise, gearbox and starting & idle problems) It has only 3500ks on the clock, I made the mistake of modding it slightly and although I cannot see how a zorst, good lowering job with bilsteins and whiteline products and a shaker CAI should void warrantee, according to the Ford dealer it has and it will be all fixed at my cost. Motor and driveline warrantee voided. (it is a magnet ute with five years warrantee - that is a joke)

I think I will have it fixed it up as best I can and take a loss now. This has been the worst example of a new Ford I have experienced and I cannot see paying for everything that might go wrong over the next 50,000k's (three years the way I chalk up ks) (or maybe 70ks in 5 years)

So whats a good ute to cart my sons Kart around to meetings on weekends that I can keep standard and still be different (and sound good) did think off getting a FPV super pursuit but from what I read on the forums FPV is trying to get out of warrantee work even more than Ford. Might just have to have a look over there on the red side.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Stampy

Ive read that all XR5's being delv to Australia will come out of South Africa and the english will get them out of a german factory

IMO German is Better Built

Focus ST/XR5 Turbo are not being built in South Africa.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by bobski

I remember reading (and this was on a forum so grain of salt required) that Ford tries to interfere with the dealerships in Sydney and really screws them down on what they get paid to fix warranty issues etc, this might go towards why they struggle to compete (although I have bad management at my workplace too, so its not a foreign thing regardless of the industry).

In regards to the warranty, what you say is true... Without saying who or how, I have it on good authority that warranty repair rates are STRICTLY controlled by Ford Asia Pacific. Doesn't matter what dealer you are or how much bargaining power you think you have, at the end of the day Ford AP says what goes and what doesn't.

They really are truly anal about it, and I'm not exaggerating - things are done their way or not at all.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Sloth

Yeah the Aussie XR5s will be built in South Africa, i cant remember where I read it.
New Zealand Focus production is being shifted from SA to Germany shortly for better quality and better equipment levels. Sadly I dont think we are getting the XR5 here, no announcements have been made...

NZ is already getting the Euro built Focus have been since the start of 06.

Ford NZ are waiting to see how the XR5 sells in Oz before deciding whether to bring it here or not.

[MAGPIE]

I've owned my SP20 for nearly 18 months and the ownership experience to date has been fantastic.
I get a Mazda magazine turn up twice a year, a letter & present at Christmas & the only time I see the dealership is when I drop the car off for it's Free scheduled servicing

[MrSparkle]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

I'm just surprised how disenchanted you seem to have become regarding Ford (and especially FPV) over the years - you yourself used to be a fanatic. :

I stop and think about those days surprisingly often, and you know what it is that turned me from a blue-veined-and-blooded gent into the raving consumerist I am now? It was the buildup of frustration at what Ford COULD do, how close they were to being able to do it, but not even TRYING.

The bottom line is that I DO want to see Ford succeed and produce great cars, but it is incredibly hard to support them when they continue to make so many bad decisions on policy. Immensely frustrating and eventually that frustration turns into sarcasm, disappointment, and disillusionment.

If I have had a taste of a great motoring ownership experience with other makes, why can't Ford offer me that?

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

I've owned my SP20 for nearly 18 months and the ownership experience to date has been fantastic.
I get a Mazda magazine turn up twice a year, a letter & present at Christmas & the only time I see the dealership is when I drop the car off for it's Free scheduled servicing

I am sure the free servicing was factored into the price. I am so glad Ford dumped this back in AU days.

[ClevlndStemer]

i am almost positive that i will never buy another new ford until something is done about their quality, well Australian built. I have a BA and look after it quite well. However compared to a friend's 1990 Lexus LS400 my car feels like paper. Yes the Lexus was 115k brand new but it is 16 years old and still going strong and feels a lot better put together than my BA Falcon. This was also the first Lexus.
Now Ford have been building cars now for a long time yet their quality inside and outside is pathetic at best. How much longer do we need to put up with this? Why can't they have a decent build quality like the LS? What does it take for them to do it? Really from a company this big I expect more.
In the field I work in a customer pays a damn good amount of money for GOOD service, if we provided a service that ford has we'd never have a contract.

Either they shape up or I ship off to another manufacturer, i'd rather spend the extra money and get something decent.

My dealer seems to be good to deal with although I don't know if they employ all apprentices. It seems everytime I take the car in for a service, i need to take it back due to something not being put back on right. At the moment I have my calipers making a noise (re adjusting). It is getting really tiresome. Ford have the potential for decent products but throw it all away with shonky manufacturing and service. No wonder we're losing out manufacturing overseas, people know if you buy australian you're not getting the quality for the money.

[Ringo]

Free servincg was a tactic to help it work against VT Commodore when you looked at leasing costs of the 2 vehicles side by side. It is also why they went to 15k scheduled servicing.

What I find interesting is how big a part the dealer plays in these issue's.

Their attitude is a massive determining factor in how you percieve your own car.

I used to work for a dealer in melbourne who is no longer with us but his name lives on and his sons run the business. At a dealership meeting he once said about another dealer named after a suburb

"You know what their problem is ? There is no name on the door"

He went on to explain about the fact that the buck stopped with him everyone knew that , employee's and customers alike. He had a point.

The trend for Ford to take over the dealers in sydney, perth, melbourne has all but wiped out this accountability and made it to easy for people to buck pass, and think 'shell be right'....

think about it

[Citric GT]

Build quality is probably my biggest concern with Falcons. Panel alignment being the main thing. If Mitsubishi and Toyota can produce Magnas and Camrys that are built properly, why cant Ford do the same with the falcons?

I have to admit, the Territory seems to be put together pretty good though.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by Redrum

I am sure the free servicing was factored into the price. I am so glad Ford dumped this back in AU days.

Yep I'm sure it is, but as the second owner of 11 month old SP20, that doesn't affect me :king:

It is great to walk out of the dealer after a service without having to take out your wallet.

End of the day I've had an awesome ownership experience for something that was brought as the family hack.

[YELLAUTE]

Originally Posted by Ringo

The trend for Ford to take over the dealers in sydney, perth, melbourne has all but wiped out this accountability and made it to easy for people to buck pass, and think 'shell be right'....

think about it

She wont be right..... the sales numbers (read profit) will ebb and tide naturally, however do the wrong thing by the enthusiest and the word spreads.

I am never timid in telling people who ask (or even just seem like they might listen) what it is like dealing with Ford. Great cars, Company and dealers sux.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by YELLAUTE

I am never timid in telling people who ask (or even just seem like they might listen) what it is like dealing with Ford. Great cars, Company and dealers sux.

I take it you mean some dealers sux or are you placing all of the apples in one basket ? some people do have a good relationship and backup servive from thier dealer.

[YELLAUTE]

Originally Posted by DOC

I take it you mean some dealers sux or are you placing all of the apples in one basket ? some people do have a good relationship and backup servive from thier dealer.

All three different Ford dealers we have purchased our last three new Fords have been the best purchasing experience (even got the best deal, great price, everything went well) however every one of them shoot themselves in the foot with their after sales non service. Warrantee claim run around, work not completed (they phone to say the car is ready to pick up and tell you when you arrive there is one (or two) items they will have to do another day) car filthy and with 25klms added (once 61klms were added and the trip computer was chiming with 29klms left to empty) locking wheel nuts all gone missing, all valve caps left off. Once we even got the wifes car back with no windscreen rubber in each blade... they were asked to replace the rubbers as they were stuttering on the screen aparently the apprentice took the old ones off and forget to put the new ones back in ... I found that one two days later walked past and thought something looked wrong.

The latest is the new ute... I made the silly mistake and slightly modding the BA2XR8 6 Speed ute lowered it with bilsteins and whiteline gear (looked way to high and only need to carry son's Go Kart) and had a new exhaust fitted (needed it to sound good) had the dealer fit a shaker before I took delivery, (just wanted it to look different.. looks good in Rapid with black stripe kit)went in with a noisey diff and snatchy driveline have now been told warrantee void because of mods. Thats 5 year warrantee down the drain ... by the way this is all new as the ELXR8 I had from new, had many more mods and the warrantee was never questioned, the ED sprint (also new) before that had lots of mods and was a screamer and never had problems with warrantee. It all seems to have changed when the dealers all became owned by the Factory.

Anyway the Focus will be gone this week end and the ute is another story its only done 3500klms so do not know what to do with it. tha LTD is now out of warrantee and being looked after by a mechanic outside the Ford organisation so she will stay a while.

[SVR73]

Originally Posted by Redrum

The AU always had poor interior build quality. This was due to the fact, that Ford, wished to cut staff that assemble it, and they did cut numbers from the EL, so made bits that clipped in rather than screw in etc. The result the AU. I owned 6 of them and not one was rattle free.

I think you can get crap build quality (lemons) on all cars regardless of make, but I think the AU was a stand out of how not do make a car. The BA is much better, but if you are fed up with Ford, give someone else a go. Let us know how the SP23 goes. I test drove one. Went ok and those things are everywhere now, selling like hotcakes.

Overall I have to say that the AU interiors of the XR and Fairmont are filled with better trim than BA's and far better looking dash (except the centre bit of S1's)
though the grey interiors need some two toning with bodycolour
the black is great though.
Don't know if they are as quiet as a BA/F but far prefer the AU
Media killed it off, the cars themselves are great though everyone would prefer an XR, T series or fairmont

TVR make great looking cars in UK, build quality I do not know what they are like but with the performance they have, I would let it slip

SP23's are a good choice, best of mazda range. I detail em every day
Don't reckon mazda's are best built cars from japan
respect your opinion

[buickman]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

I've owned my SP20 for nearly 18 months and the ownership experience to date has been fantastic.
I get a Mazda magazine turn up twice a year, a letter & present at Christmas & the only time I see the dealership is when I drop the car off for it's Free scheduled servicing

I must agree having owned a couple of Mazdas there service is way better then others around. Plus Mazdas & Hondas are one of the best finished cars in their price brackets.
As for lower spec Euro cars like Renault enough said.
The Japenese cars would not be in the strong market position if they really built poor quality cars. As reflected in the car sales in January.

[XA-Coupe]

I have a fantastic dealer and although I have had some issues with my car, I would easily buy another falcon. Mainly I suppose because of the dealer experience.
There are quality issues and Ford need to look at it.. although I suspect they won't.
As for other cars..well, Saffron was a nice car to drive Sparkles but I just couldn't live with it every day. It doesn't suit me nor do any of the smaller jap cars or euro trash no matter how well they handle. In fact, you are making compromises in having them as you are a big bloke too and they just aren't comfortable. Well, once I get a thrash of the Golf I'll pass judgement on that too

Oh, and I thought it was only the BAs that had quality probelms.. well, that's the impression I get ....

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by SVR73

Overall I have to say that the AU interiors of the XR and Fairmont are filled with better trim than BA's and far better looking dash (except the centre bit of S1's)
though the grey interiors need some two toning with bodycolour
the black is great though.
Don't know if they are as quiet as a BA/F but far prefer the AU
Media killed it off, the cars themselves are great though everyone would prefer an XR, T series or fairmont

TVR make great looking cars in UK, build quality I do not know what they are like but with the performance they have, I would let it slip

SP23's are a good choice, best of mazda range. I detail em every day
Don't reckon mazda's are best built cars from japan
respect your opinion

I worked for Ford for most of the life of the AU. I go on my own opinions of owning them and not the opinion of the media. I think the BA is exceptional inside and out and the amount of GM fans and non GM fans who have said this still astound me. My father in law drives a 2005 S350 and he says my BAMK2 rapid T sedan is a great car. He says it nearly every time I drive around there and always says Ford has got it right this time. I agree.

I would agree with you on Mazda not being the best quality ricers. But nice package.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I have a fantastic dealer

Which dealer?

[Timmeh]

Originally Posted by RSgerry

Today I said goodbye to my 2002 AU3 XR6. I personally liked the styling of the XR, both inside and out and liked the way it went (although my RS2000 is quicker). I bought the car new 4 years ago, and sadly, the indifferent attention to detail, the annoying rattles and the poor service have taken their toll.

Originally Posted by RSgerry

At least I have the RS...a car with less rattles than the Falcon.

Long live the mighty RS! :king:

Good luck with your next car, hope it treats you properly. Hope to still see yu round the Escort forums here!

Timmeh

[HSE2]

Well I guess I have a different perspective.

How does chasing a behavioral change for nearly 8 months only to find that it occurred due to a software upgrade that wasn't properly documented or the fact that no one had been trained on what these changes where meant to achieve sound?

Or how about a steering column motor that costs $2500 to replace with out labour.

German engineering at its best. Great when it works but when it doesn't it goes wrong in a very big way and the cost! Cars that cost 200k do so for very good reason.

The best quality I have come across belongs to either VW or Audi and they are that close to each other it doesn't matter. There are notable mentions for a number of others but at days end, we are talking about humans building a product for other humans to be sold and service by, yes, you guessed it

I am not convinced a particular car company has a monopoly on a particular behavioral or attitude set especially as in this country we are nearly always talking about Australian trained personal. Perhaps I am wrong. I have been disappointed with products and people associated with cars costing upwards of 150k and like wise our local product that costs 45k. Trust me when I say that if you look hard enough there are hard luck, arrogance and quality stories world over on just about everything.

It is a very good idea to sample as much as possible in this wide world of ours to indeed get an appreciation on what’s on offer. Our product is fragile in some areas and the world it lives is getting smaller. The natural competition is becoming wider and Ford as well as the other manufacturers should consider themselves on notice. There doesn’t appear to be the tolerance that yesteryear held over these issues and regardless of how green the fettle is over the fence and the real merit in the sampling, lost sales are that.

If you are lucky enough to find a salesperson and dealership that share the passion not just the idea of a profit you are half way there. Forum sponsors are a great place to start because they do know and understand the power of the spoken word.

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Which dealer?

Look at the top of the page .. Strapp Ford. They were looking after me before I got the XR8 so it was only a natural when I was ready for a new car, I went to them.
I now drive from Caulfield to Doncaster for service and warranty work.. because I trust them. Burwood is good too.
There is a dealer service centre literally 3 minutes away but I wouldn't let them work on my push bike.
I can't recommend Strapp enough, regardless of the fact they are sponsors.

[9lives]

Originally Posted by YELLAUTE

Rubbish.

My wife gets a new car every three years, anything she wants (up to $50k) she has had new Fords for the last three, Her comment last weekend is "no more Fords they don't care about me, my car or a future sale. I asked why and she said "the three local dealers we have tried over the last two years have all had a chance at fixing simple things in the Focus and all have either returned the car with items not done (and not even told her they were not done) or tried to charge for warrantee items and even rung to say the service was complete and when she arranged a lift up to the dealer the car was not finished (actually did not get finished to the next day and then she drove it home with one of the items not complete- wiper blades were removed and not replaced- I noticed the next day when I walked past the car)

She says she paid $32k cash for the car two years ago (has only done 12k klms) had it serviced by Ford every six months regardless of klms and has never been happy with the dealers service and has given up on ever getting warrantee items done.

{It mostly comes down to how well you can communicate with people and how well you can negotiate}
She is the most polite person (a librarian for goodness sake) all that gets her is trodden all over by the dealers she has dealt with. Why should she negotiate to get what Ford have a contract to do? (Warrantee document - legal contract)

To quote her last comment yesterday after another dissapointment with a dealer service department " What you doing on Saturday? lets go car shopping, I like the VW Golf or maybe we should look at the small cars Holden has"

Hey mate for the most of us that cant afford a new car every 3 years fords are top value when serviced regularly and looked after... if you want something deluxe take your 50k and go and get yourself a bmw or merc and go to thier forums and have a winge.

[YELLAUTE]

Originally Posted by 9lives

Hey mate for the most of us that cant afford a new car every 3 years fords are top value when serviced regularly and looked after... if you want something deluxe take your 50k and go and get yourself a bmw or merc and go to thier forums and have a winge.

Done! rude bastard,

[mik]

it does seem that some dealers are money oriented rather than customer oriented , that said i bought my au from a NON ford dealer and i have to say my car was and is a bloody rippa however i had some rwc and service issues with the car, they had the car on the hoist and the mechanic couldnt tell the stabiliser support was bent he argued with mei couldnt believe it, the workshop manager i found to be full of attitude,it was only a 20 buck part,tight asses fair dinkum, i ended up fixing it myself , I know there are good dealers out there and mechanics its just finding one, maybe we need a dealers list red star dont go there green star ok, they might lift there game.

[RSgerry]

Originally Posted by Timmeh

Long live the mighty RS! :king:

Good luck with your next car, hope it treats you properly. Hope to still see yu round the Escort forums here!

Timmeh

: i will still be around Timmeh. i will always have some sort of Ford...just not new ones :-) I have the RS (forever) am selling the Sierra and am in the build process of an Anglia Estate. If the Sierra doesnt sell, it comes off the road, gets stripped and the oily bits will find their way into a Cortina at some point in the distant future. Mmmmm...2.8 V6 Cortina....

[MrSparkle]

Originally Posted by 9lives

Hey mate for the most of us that cant afford a new car every 3 years fords are top value when serviced regularly and looked after... if you want something deluxe take your 50k and go and get yourself a bmw or merc and go to thier forums and have a winge.

20 posts and you're talking like this? What exactly are you contributing to these forums?

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I have a fantastic dealer and although I have had some issues with my car, I would easily buy another falcon. Mainly I suppose because of the dealer experience.
There are quality issues and Ford need to look at it.. although I suspect they won't.
As for other cars..well, Saffron was a nice car to drive Sparkles but I just couldn't live with it every day. It doesn't suit me nor do any of the smaller jap cars or euro trash no matter how well they handle. In fact, you are making compromises in having them as you are a big bloke too and they just aren't comfortable. Well, once I get a thrash of the Golf I'll pass judgement on that too

Oh, and I thought it was only the BAs that had quality probelms.. well, that's the impression I get ....

The S15 was compromised for fat bastards that's true, but it was comfortable enough for me. It was the smallest car I would own without needing regular use of the jaws of life, however!!! The Golf is actually surprisingly comfortable and has a lot more room inside than you'd expect. It is a compromise as well, as I have banged on about ever since deciding to get it, all in the name of finance, and it is fulfilling its duties and then some. Every damn car is a compromise in many ways so if these don't match your requirements from it then you're in the wrong car. :

Back to the topic at hand though, I think Ian has again nailed the whole point when he said ..

Originally Posted by HSE2

It is a very good idea to sample as much as possible in this wide world of ours to indeed get an appreciation on what’s on offer. Our product is fragile in some areas and the world it lives is getting smaller. The natural competition is becoming wider and Ford as well as the other manufacturers should consider themselves on notice. There doesn’t appear to be the tolerance that yesteryear held over these issues and regardless of how green the fettle is over the fence and the real merit in the sampling, lost sales are that.

If you aren't locked into getting a particular make and/or model, you should spend more time finding the best car. Alternatively, (or perhaps subsequently), if you are committed to a certain make/model, then you should spend more time shopping around for the best dealership!

In fact, I would go so far as to say that Ford could get away with lower build quality if they had their act together in servicing and customer satisfaction. People would be willing to overlook (or live with) issues so long as they were rectified promptly and professionally. As it is now though... :alien2: