VE Commodore - not so advanced after all?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by T3ts50

All cars are built different. We have never had a warranty claim on any of our Fords, and Ford have been great with us. Yesterday we dropped the Focus for a service, and they gave us a SBR hat.

We have had 8 new fords in the last 4 years, not one of them has been a brillant car, ones even had a new engine.

[RS500]

yeah but the VE is in the running for "world car of the year" can you seriously say that being one of the supposed best cars in the world it should have been recalled acouple of times (there was also a recall on all v8 models before the release that was kept quiet)

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

http://bogandiaries.blogspot.com/200...-are-made.html

My review of one of our VE Acclaim work cars

ESP it works and works brilliantly my new favourite saftey feture.
It works like say your on a back road in the middle of nowhere, Dirt rocks the works a crappy private road, Say your doing 100kp/h and start tossing the car left and right as hard as you can to spin the car around, The ESP will stop that and correct the car and bring it back in a straight line. I know this because
More can't really be said in public about it. But trust me it's going too save lives in all cars all models and brands i loved it.

Originally Posted by janek

hey, i get mail quite regularly from ford after buying my ghia.... But that may just be because it's a ghia.

As far as the VE goes, im not a fan simply because it looks so plastic. The rear bumper being so large really detracts from an otherwise fine looking car

One of my passengers slammed the rear door into one of them white concrete post that are next too petrol bowser's, Didn't leave a mark there very strong.

[Jayden]

my cars been going 10 years without the hint of a problem, its all luck probably. but being looked after sure helps.

[Stoney!]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

http://bogandiaries.blogspot.com/200...-are-made.html

My review of one of our VE Acclaim work cars

I dunno whats funnier, the fact that you sound totally bias, or the fact that your writing a review on a car that doesn't even exist!!!

Stoney!

[GreenMachine]

Were you looking for journalistic integrity or accuracy of reporting? Sorry dear!

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by RS500

yeah but the VE is in the running for "world car of the year" can you seriously say that being one of the supposed best cars in the world it should have been recalled acouple of times (there was also a recall on all v8 models before the release that was kept quiet)

Do you think Holden is the only one who's had recalls?

BMW 5 Series has had two recalls this year.
BMW 6 Series has had three
Mercedes C-Class has had five
Honda has had 18 different models recalled this year.
Toyota has had 19 in '06, and five recalls already for '07 models.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Who gives a shit about recalls, half of them are supplier issues and have nothing to do with the actual manufacturers, so how can you blame them?

[XR Martin]

Its up to the manufacturers to make sure the supplier is making the products to standard. They are working on behalf of the manufacturer, so it is their fault.

When you TV dies are you going to be happy if the manufacturer says "well it died because of a capacitor, which is made by an external supplier, so its not our fault"

If the companies name is on the product and it is recalled, then that company is at fault.

[MITCHAY]

Also with some recalls, they may or may not apply to you car it is just a precautionary measure as some were found that had faults.

[Full Spectrum]

I'd rather 20 recalls in 12 months then 1 recall in 6 years when they wont do anything anymore and it's something that could be dangerous.

[MITCHAY]

Our VT has had 2 recalls I think, and the letter just states "your vehicle may be affected"

Also recalls can be related to optional accessories such as tow bars. So unless you had one it doesn't apply to you.

That thing is 6 years old now. The only thing wrong with it is the auto shifter button is broken.

Nothing is perfect from factory, it is just a matter of if the company is willing to officially acknowledge it.

[Full Spectrum]

I wish holden did a recall 13 years ago and changed all the oxygen sensors in the V6 models:P. They are shit and cost some money in fuel economy, Some didn't have the sasme problems but i got it. Admittingly only last year but they dont have a large life span like the ecotec ones.

[MITCHAY]

They have got to weigh up the costs with recalls too. If it's non dangerous don't hold your breath in other words.

I remember a documentary I watched where in the US the fuel tank would explode in a certain vehicle in a rear ender accident.

They worked out that based on the average law suit that it was cheaper to let people die than order a recall.

I think they eventually did a recall but can't remember it was so long ago.

I'm sure it wouldn't be because of ethics but rather the law suits were getting bigger in their claims.

[Full Spectrum]

Bloody Americans.. They should have called Erin brockavich

[Rollin]

Its much more advanced than previous models after all they have had "ONLY" two recall so far

Says who?

V8 fuel line recall - could leak fuel onto exhaust...oh yeah, crispy
Back seat belt buckle recall - tongue could be pulled out of buckle by hand
Front seat belt bolt tension - retractor mechanism can come loose inside B pillar
AC drain tube recall - leaks water into passenger footwell making carpet mouldy, wet and smelly
HVAC system recall - blower fan inop

Thats 5 just off the top of my head, I think there are a couple more...

Slick_Aussie - if you have 2 or 3 wire 02 sensors, cut the 02 sensor earth wires at the ECU and then ground them to the chassis the 02 sensors should last a lot longer and work better

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

They have got to weigh up the costs with recalls too. If it's non dangerous don't hold your breath in other words.

I remember a documentary I watched where in the US the fuel tank would explode in a certain vehicle in a rear ender accident.

They worked out that based on the average law suit that it was cheaper to let people die than order a recall.

I think they eventually did a recall but can't remember it was so long ago.

I'm sure it wouldn't be because of ethics but rather the law suits were getting bigger in their claims.

It was not just in the US, Toyota and Mitsubishi have both been proven guilty of the same thing.
In Japan civil lawsuit payouts are limited to a tiny amount, hence why Japanese cars arnt recalled as much in Japan, because they know they'll never have to payout millions and millions of dollars.
In the US there is no Civil lawsuit payout limit, hence why in America your car can be recalled for sometimes the stupidest insignificant thing, like the Explorer tyres.
Out of 5 million or so Explorers sold only 100 deaths could be attributed to possible faulty tyres. Thats a tiny percentage.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Rollin

Slick_Aussie - if you have 2 or 3 wire 02 sensors, cut the 02 sensor earth wires at the ECU and then ground them to the chassis the 02 sensors should last a lot longer and work better

I didn't know you could do that.. I replaced it 3-4 months ago and the old one looked burnt too a crisp.. Just like the petrol filter they both look factory standard from 92:P
It's the 2 wire one replaced it with a bosh one got 14.5l/100 since better then 27l/100 before

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

It was not just in the US, Toyota and Mitsubishi have both been proven guilty of the same thing.
In Japan civil lawsuit payouts are limited to a tiny amount, hence why Japanese cars arnt recalled as much in Japan, because they know they'll never have to payout millions and millions of dollars.
In the US there is no Civil lawsuit payout limit, hence why in America your car can be recalled for sometimes the stupidest insignificant thing, like the Explorer tyres.
Out of 5 million or so Explorers sold only 100 deaths could be attributed to possible faulty tyres. Thats a tiny percentage.

You could have used a better example for a "stupidest insignificant thing"
Certainly not Fords nor Bridgestones finest hour. Last count was 119 in the US only, thats enough I think to warrant the recall which I believe Jack Nasser instituted.
cheers
Bill.

[XR Martin]

If it was in any other country it wouldnt have rated a mention, its just the money hungry lawyers in the US that tries to find something to sue over any chance they get.
Have you read the one on Audi and their transmissions that would 'slip'from Park into drive? There was one case of it happening, running over the driver opening a gate or something. 60minutes tried as they could, couldnt replicate it, so they got a mechanic to rig up the transmission so it would slip out of park. They failed to mention this little mod on their show, and it nearly made Audi broke with lawsuits and recalls, and they left the US for nearly 20 years.
Another show tried replicating the Explorer rollover, also as hard as they could they couldnt get it to flip, even after resorting to flattening a tyre/s.
The Pinto fire after a hard rear end crash was also a setup, in the video that started to controversy, the fuel was ignited with an external electrical source.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Bill M

You could have used a better example for a "stupidest insignificant thing"
Certainly not Fords nor Bridgestones finest hour. Last count was 119 in the US only, thats enough I think to warrant the recall which I believe Jack Nasser instituted.
cheers
Bill.

If any tyre is found to be faulty the whole batch should be recalled. They are vital safety equipment.

As for Toyota and Mitsubishi. If your accident occured in Australia due to one of their faults you would sue the Australian divisions wouldn't you?

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

The Pinto fire after a crash was also a setup, in the video that started to controversy, the fuel was ignited with an external electrical source.

Is this the vehicle I mentioned in my post? The issue was the fuel tank getting crushed against the diff in a rear end accident.

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Is this the vehicle I mentioned in my post? The issue was the fuel tank getting crushed against the diff in a rear end accident.

That would be the Chevrolet Malibu.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by RPO83

That would be the Chevrolet Malibu.

Thanks for that. I thought it was either a US Ford or GM product but saw the video years ago.

[XR Martin]

No it was the Ford Pinto.
Heres the video that started the whole controversy, it basically changed the whole US car industry to start putting gas tanks further under the car.
Note the burst into flames, it was caused by a deliberate external source, for shock value. (which means the video has little relevance in real World conditions)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNeorjXMrE

[MITCHAY]

I'm confused now I have no idea what car it was. But the documentary was a good one though.

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

No it was the Ford Pinto.
Heres the video that started the whole controversy, it basically changed the whole US car industry to start putting gas tanks further under the car.
Note the burst into flames, it was caused by a deliberate external source, for shock value. (which means the video has little relevance in real World conditions)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNeorjXMrE

It was not only the exploding tank that was the problem, it was also that the Pintos doors would jam shut from the collision leaving the occupants trapped inside with no immediate means to escape.

Ford US actually knew this before production, so they worked out the cost of potential future lawsuits versus change to the design and the "top brass" at Ford then, considered that it would be cheaper to go with potential future lawsuits. This was actually worked out to the dollar. Ford were well aware that they were placing a cost on human life at the time.

Ford also had a patented safety tank that cost around $10 bucks extra that would of solved the problem by sealing the tanks contents after the tank was punctured (bladder I think) but the cost of possible future litigation was still considered cheaper.

Ford were proud of the Pinto for other reasons though, because at that time it was one of the fastest models to go from pen to production in the companies history. This was one of the reasons why this fatal flaw was not sorted out before production. Another was purely cost.

[MITCHAY]

All I know is that it was cheaper to let people die than rectify the problems. As I said I sure as hell can bet it wasn't ethics that made them rectify it, it was the lawsuits were getting more expensive. I think there was a class action suit too but I am not sure.

Even with such incentives generated by court awards, companies aren't necessarily moved to remove product problems. In Reforming Products Liability, Viscusi points out that the Ford Motor Company chose to market the Ford Pinto with a gas tank that posed a high risk of explosion when hit from the rear. "Ford calculated the prospective liability burden, compared this cost with that of altering the design to reduce the risk of injury, and concluded that the design change would be more expensive than the court awards."

from herehttp://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/alu...2/lit.txt.html

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

No it was the Ford Pinto.
Heres the video that started the whole controversy, it basically changed the whole US car industry to start putting gas tanks further under the car.
Note the burst into flames, it was caused by a deliberate external source, for shock value. (which means the video has little relevance in real World conditions)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcNeorjXMrE

There are at least two documantaries, one on GM's Malibu/Cutlass and the other more famous Pinto one.



"An internal GM memo showed that the company estimated that deaths resulting from post-collision fuel-tank fires cost General Motors $2.40 per car. This calculation was based on an estimate that each life “has a value of $200,000.” Internal memos also showed that the company had developed an improved design that would do a better job of protecting the gas tank in collisions. Improving the design would cost the company $8.59 per car. Executives decided not to do so."

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by RPO83

There are at least two documantaries, one on GM's Malibu/Cutlass and the other more famous Pinto one.



"An internal GM memo showed that the company estimated that deaths resulting from post-collision fuel-tank fires cost General Motors $2.40 per car. This calculation was based on an estimate that each life “has a value of $200,000.” Internal memos also showed that the company had developed an improved design that would do a better job of protecting the gas tank in collisions. Improving the design would cost the company $8.59 per car. Executives decided not to do so."

This just goes to show that nobody was safe then (or even now) from the greed displayed by multinationals if they decided to play god with their wares. I would shudder to think that this would or could go on today.

And this is why we have these continual and sometimes even minor recalls now.

I believe that the one that got away in this country during the same time as the Pinto was the VH-CM Chrysler Valiant. They were notorious for collapsing front seats especially during accidents. Chrysler were only too well aware of this problem but decided that it could potentially bankrupt the Australian ops(which was close to bankruptcy already) if they sparked a recall.

In the past, I have seen these already collapsed front seats being support by jamming the spare wheel behind the front seat and the back seat. Heaven knows what would happen to the occupant in an accident when there is little or no solid seat support to help pin you to your seat.