Budget Night !!!!!!

[GXL078]

I have never given a stuff about budgets. Politicians are only there to look after themselves. But having just had a child maybe it wil be relevant to me now. I just wish he would let me sleep. I can't wait until after the election so that interest rates will go up and we get more than 6.35% for our term deposits, considering I may be out of work for a while. We can do with a rent increase on our unit as well with all the strata fees an special levies we have to pay out to greedy contractors (PLUS GST).

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

I have never given a stuff about budgets. Politicians are only there to look after themselves. But having just had a child maybe it wil be relevant to me now. I just wish he would let me sleep.

You probarly should, along with every other Australian... If people actually took on board the fiscal information a budget has to offer they would do a better job of chosing a government.

To many people vote for a particular party because their mum or dad did, or because their bloody union told them to..

[RPO83]

Was all good news, I'm happy they are further addressing the simplification of the BAS and are spending money in vital areas whilst planning for the future.

[GXL078]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

To many people vote for a particular party because their mum or dad did, or because their bloody union told them to..

Well, I will never vote Liberal. For the first time in history my electorate (Greenway) is Liberal, because they conned the people over interest rates. That and the Hillsong right scared people off the last labour candidate because he was a muslim. And the Hills candidate was a seikh. (Both now Liberal) Imagine that, Labour heartland, Blacktown, Western Sydney a Liberal seat? Not for long it won't be. Work No Choices will see to that.

[gtfpv]

to be honest no govt has effected my lifestyle .

i have a theory though , which seems to go against, the trend and no one on either party ever mentions it . and yes this has happened and most faired well . some were ruined, as today.

my theory is this , and i would welcome some opinion here ( especially off someone studying economics .

this is it . MODERATE TO HIGH INFLATION IS GOOD ( much better than low inflation)
this is a scenario . ::: newlyweds buy a house and have a family. they are fairly strung out with the cost of living . inflation is kept at a low for years and years , meaning thier wages dont go up , much at all . so for years and years they struggle .

scenario b::: they buy a house and are struggling , inflation starts to rise . thier mortgage does not change but interest rates go up . both are forced to work all they can in order to meet the interest repayments while everything is going up . after years due to inflation their wages have gone up significantly due to high inflation . all of a sudden . their mortgage to earnings ratio isnt high at all . and they have a lot of equity in thier house and can easily afford the minimum payments . or own thier house in 1/2 the time they origionaly thought .


moral of the story . DO YOU REALLY BELIEV THE ECONOMY BEING GOOD / AND LOW INFLATION IS GOOD FOR YOU . the banks certainly do .

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. low inflation brings continual hardship to all .

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

You probarly should, along with every other Australian... If people actually took on board the fiscal information a budget has to offer they would do a better job of chosing a government.

To many people vote for a particular party because their mum or dad did, or because their bloody union told them to..

The average Australian doesn't have a hope in voting effectively because they do not understand politics and such, myself included. The only time they really give a second thought to it all is when they actually vote!

Donkey FTW!

[GXL078]

And preferential voting means your vote goes to someone who you didn't vote for in the first place. It could be worse, voting could be optional and we could end up with a mug like this in charge

www.bushorchimp.com
http://bushclock.lose.com/

[RPO83]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

to be honest no govt has effected my lifestyle .

i have a theory though , which seems to go against, the trend and no one on either party ever mentions it . and yes this has happened and most faired well . some were ruined, as today.

my theory is this , and i would welcome some opinion here ( especially off someone studying economics .

this is it . MODERATE TO HIGH INFLATION IS GOOD ( much better than low inflation)
this is a scenario . ::: newlyweds buy a house and have a family. they are fairly strung out with the cost of living . inflation is kept at a low for years and years , meaning thier wages dont go up , much at all . so for years and years they struggle .

scenario b::: they buy a house and are struggling , inflation starts to rise . thier mortgage does not change but interest rates go up . both are forced to work all they can in order to meet the interest repayments while everything is going up . after years due to inflation their wages have gone up significantly due to high inflation . all of a sudden . their mortgage to earnings ratio isnt high at all . and they have a lot of equity in thier house and can easily afford the minimum payments . or own thier house in 1/2 the time they origionaly thought .


moral of the story . DO YOU REALLY BELIEV THE ECONOMY BEING GOOD / AND LOW INFLATION IS GOOD FOR YOU . the banks certainly do .

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. low inflation brings continual hardship to all .

We had a bit of your scenario B under another Government, but the problem with the actual outcome was that real wages went down during that period.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by RPO83

We had a bit of your scenario B under another Government, but the problem with the actual outcome was that real wages went down during that period.

perhaps but unfortunately houses have gone up 300% since .have wages ??

you see houses keep going up. unless incomes match everyone is screwed . when houses stop going up. everyone is screwed. and everyone is maxed .

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Laminge

I have used most of my budget in closed threads this week, lets not turn this into another.

Lol. Surely you've built up a bit of a surplus by now. Maybe put some away in order to meet that future liability of thread closures that is currently unfunded

In terms of the budget, i think its a typical costello effort. Havent had a detailed look yet (stuff the headlines people, read the detail!!!) but seems like nothing too exciting. But the day we have an exciting treasurer is the day i start to lose sleep lol. Good balance of returning money to the taxpayer and putting some away to keep our grubby mitts off it.

The head of my organistion had been hoping for a significant increase in wage appropriation for us, but doesnt look like it came through. No biggie, the money is better off with the seniors/schools IMO.

GTFPV, my thoughts on your comments: Low inflation is good. In absolute terms. The structure of our economy is such that wage rises will always occur reactively in response to rising costs goods and services - and without productivity gains, the cycle begins. Be it CA, award or an AWA.

In the absence of a productivity increase, increased wages will only cause further inflationary pressue. Tell those newlyweds in your case study they shouldnt have borrowed to breaking point.

I'll put it this way. It's better to earn $100 and spend $80 instead of earning $1000 for the same work and spending $800 for the same goods/services. You cannot - it is impossible - to have a situation where real wages increase and goods/services remain at the same price without an increase in productivity (hint hint lol).

However if there is a school of thought which demonstrates the opposite, im all ears!!! (they dont teach non-mainstream economics at australian unis).

Rising cost of housing is not really inflationary by virtue of the supply/demand inequity.

XCGL - check your political nonsense at the door my friend!!! There's the possibility of a good discussion breaking out here and you know i can only bite my tongue for so long

Mitchay - lack of understanding of our system is only an issue if you vote above the line!!!

[AussieJason]

Love or hate politics, we elected the Coalition when Labor had virtually destroyed the economy. Howard and Costello promised to fix it, they have and now we are reaping the benefits.

Look at the WA state budget in comparison, most people now know about the boom in Western Australia. So are we getting a tax cut in from the ALP our state budget ? Nope. They are putting up the prices of services instead. You want that sort of management at the Federal level ?

[gtfpv]

interesting comments . i read with interest.

4.9 ef futura . i agree with a lot about what you said and also agree with . earning 100 and spending 80 . that has always been wise .
but financial institutions are lending up to 110% these days . what is a young person to do ??

one thing needs to be looked at . if you can look at youth these days . and wonder how they are going to pay thier way. if you think that the most ways they will be ok is with inheritence from the death of thier parents in order to pay off thier debts , then you must ask yourself . who had the better life ( monetary wise) them or thier parents. and what governments ruled over thier time . by the way ( youth these days are staying home longer , putting off child birth longer . but unfortunately thier parants are living longer . ( it's kind of sad that wwe have acheived that point in the cycle isn't it ) BRING ON INFLATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

perhaps but unfortunately houses have gone up 300% since .have wages ??

you see houses keep going up. unless incomes match everyone is screwed . when houses stop going up. everyone is screwed. and everyone is maxed .

What are you looking for gtfpv ? Balance ? It will never happen.
The last lessons I recall from my father/mother was to buy only what you can Afford and the youth of today do not want to wait ! I want it now is the motto.
So what are you saying, John Youth Citizen buys his house in an area he is extending himself more than he should AND he borrows 95% or more.....
Was that wise, did he consider the what ifs ?
Who is to blame in this scenario ?
Oh it's the government how it runs the country ?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

What are you looking for gtfpv ? Balance ? It will never happen.
The last lessons I recall from my father/mother was to buy only what you can Afford and the youth of today do not want to wait ! I want it now is the motto.
So what are you saying, John Youth Citizen buys his house in an area he is extending himself more than he should AND he borrows 95% or more.....
Was that wise, did he consider the what ifs ?
Who is to blame in this scenario ?
Oh it's the government how it runs the country ?

not at all bluedriver . i'm not trying to decide who should be in govt . this is a budget ( monetory related thread ) it's not important ,but i'm not left or right wing . im' a swinging voter .

times have changed . and i cannot see young people traditionally doing well . without changes to lifestyle , which promotes the i dont want a family and mortgage with big debt , to, i want to travel, drive a sports car and enjoy now . later i'm not worried about . 10 to 1, 10 to the other .
tradition is fast dissapearing . inflation was related to tradition .

in relation to your comments i'm talking about people struggling to rent in western sydney , or buy in the lower demographic suburbs . not buy in bondi.
in the passed people took relativelyt big debts early on and after say 10 years were ok . now people are taking life debt . or giving it all away . the later seems to be more appropriate . i'm in my late 30,s and i have a family . 50% of my friends do not . what about people in thier mid 20's . in my mid 20's 50 % of my friends did not .
how many people in thier mid 20's have a family now . ?? inflation is not tied to peoples biggest asset and need . thier home .

i dont want anbything . i'm sweet . due to inflation . i dont know what to advise my kids .
besides dont worry , live it up , buy a sports car, rent where you want , and wait till i die . truly . i had 30 % deposit saved for my house when i bought it . inthis day and age if i went back i'd have 10% and be borrowing 90% i probaly would say f, it i'm going travelling .

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

interesting comments . i read with interest.

4.9 ef futura . i agree with a lot about what you said and also agree with . earning 100 and spending 80 . that has always been wise .
but financial institutions are lending up to 110% these days . what is a young person to do ??

Not only the youngins! Reverse mortgages are becoming quite popular and frankly, these are ghastly products IMO (for readers not faimiliar with the product, its targeted at retirees who want money for living... they offer their payed-off house to the bank, the bank lends to them up to the value of the house. NO payments are required whatsoever... but when you move on to the big pokie lounge in the sky, the bank sells your house to pay off the loan).

Or whatabout writing a 30 year loan to a 55 year old? Not only are the kids not gonna get much of an inheritance... they may wind up servicing residual debt.

It's a throwaway line and a bit of a cop out... but the only answer is for people to borrow responsibly!! The banks will happily lend to the point of self destruction. Government does its best to regulate them (believe me i know) but its near impossible.

It's not a lack of understanding, Australians are a very financially astute bunch of people. It's a control issue. I bet most people know damn well that its going to be tough as they sign off on that 95% LVR loan.... but the winning voice in their head is the one screaming "i want it now".

If it means i have to wait longer to buy a house... so be it. Life's a b*tch aint it?

one thing needs to be looked at . if you can look at youth these days . and wonder how they are going to pay thier way. if you think that the most ways they will be ok is with inheritence from the death of thier parents in order to pay off thier debts , then you must ask yourself . who had the better life ( monetary wise) them or thier parents. and what governments ruled over thier time . by the way ( youth these days are staying home longer , putting off child birth longer . but unfortunately thier parants are living longer . ( it's kind of sad that wwe have acheived that point in the cycle isn't it ) BRING ON INFLATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The world changes, we evolve. You may see it as sad... i see it as inevitable. You cant apply 1970s thinking in the year 2007.

Perhaps home ownership is no longer the pinnacle that young people are to aspire to? Maybe there's more to life than owning a house... maybe there's less nowadays? It may be time to let go of the idea that the meaning of life in Australia is property ownership?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Not only the youngins! Reverse mortgages are becoming quite popular and frankly, these are ghastly products IMO (for readers not faimiliar with the product, its targeted at retirees who want money for living... they offer their payed-off house to the bank, the bank lends to them up to the value of the house. NO payments are required whatsoever... but when you move on to the big pokie lounge in the sky, the bank sells your house to pay off the loan).

Or whatabout writing a 30 year loan to a 55 year old? Not only are the kids not gonna get much of an inheritance... they may wind up servicing residual debt.

It's a throwaway line and a bit of a cop out... but the only answer is for people to borrow responsibly!! The banks will happily lend to the point of self destruction. Government does its best to regulate them (believe me i know) but its near impossible.

It's not a lack of understanding, Australians are a very financially astute bunch of people. It's a control issue. I bet most people know damn well that its going to be tough as they sign off on that 95% LVR loan.... but the winning voice in their head is the one screaming "i want it now".

If it means i have to wait longer to buy a house... so be it. Life's a b*tch aint it?



The world changes, we evolve. You may see it as sad... i see it as inevitable. You cant apply 1970s thinking in the year 2007.

Perhaps home ownership is no longer the pinnacle that young people are to aspire to? Maybe there's more to life than owning a house... maybe there's less nowadays? It may be time to let go of the idea that the meaning of life in Australia is property ownership?

well said . it will be interesting watching it evolve . lots of scenarios here . like ; skills , and immigration . the unknowns which a have no info to comment on.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Just got an email from an accounting firm here in Adelaide that ive dealt with in the past... A very good summary of the budget.

If you want a concise summary, its a good read. Tax cuts shown as tables etc etc.

http://www.kennedy.com.au/Newsletter...Newsletter.pdf

[Gunns]

Ya I will get a whole $16 a week more thanks to the tax cut and then the interest rates will go up and there goes that $16 a week.
Ya go team!

[GXL078]

I bought my house in 1999 when I finally got a permanent job. My pay has gone up %53 since then and my house has gone up %58 (I think). Could have been doing a lot better if I got a promotion.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

not at all bluedriver . i'm not trying to decide who should be in govt . this is a budget ( monetory related thread ) it's not important ,but i'm not left or right wing . im' a swinging voter .

times have changed . and i cannot see young people traditionally doing well . without changes to lifestyle , which promotes the i dont want a family and mortgage with big debt , to, i want to travel, drive a sports car and enjoy now . later i'm not worried about . 10 to 1, 10 to the other .
tradition is fast dissapearing . inflation was related to tradition .

in relation to your comments i'm talking about people struggling to rent in western sydney , or buy in the lower demographic suburbs . not buy in bondi.
in the passed people took relativelyt big debts early on and after say 10 years were ok . now people are taking life debt . or giving it all away . the later seems to be more appropriate . i'm in my late 30,s and i have a family . 50% of my friends do not . what about people in thier mid 20's . in my mid 20's 50 % of my friends did not .
how many people in thier mid 20's have a family now . ?? inflation is not tied to peoples biggest asset and need . thier home .

i dont want anbything . i'm sweet . due to inflation . i dont know what to advise my kids .
besides dont worry , live it up , buy a sports car, rent where you want , and wait till i die . truly . i had 30 % deposit saved for my house when i bought it . inthis day and age if i went back i'd have 10% and be borrowing 90% i probaly would say f, it i'm going travelling .

I'm with you mate and understand but don't you think ppl were struggling the same long long ago, meaning the ones who couldn't save that 30% deposit and have rented for ever ?
I'm a little older lol over 45, back in my 20's less than 50% of my mates married early, many like me walked down the aisle from 30.
Don't you think I thought when I got my first mortgage my wife expecting our 1st child how am I going to pay this ? plus not purchase in the area I was accustomed to because we couldn't afford the area at the time.
The only difference nowadays is the young grow up too fast and want it now !
I know ppl in their mid 20's now who got down and studied and made 3times the $$ I made in those times.
Come on too much doom and gloom, I have 3 kids and yes I think how are they going to afford this and that but I'm sure my parents and many others think/thought the same.
Give them good grounding,good schooling and I'm sure things turn out,if it doesn't they really have themselves to blame.

[Polyal]

Geez I must be going crazy.

I just watched Costello on ABC, I found it interesting......

Although the way in which he answered some of the questions was bordering on rude. He repeated himself over and over and basically gave high school kid answers back.

I find their subtle humour amusing too, damn being a pollie wouldn't be such a bad job.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

The world changes, we evolve. You may see it as sad... i see it as inevitable. You cant apply 1970s thinking in the year 2007.

Perhaps home ownership is no longer the pinnacle that young people are to aspire to? Maybe there's more to life than owning a house... maybe there's less nowadays? It may be time to let go of the idea that the meaning of life in Australia is property ownership?

Could be.

[Polyal]

I agree 4.6 EF Futura.

Lets face facts. Its bloody expensive to bring up a large family now, and alot of people are deciding not to have kids at all (hence the baby bonus).

It makes sense for some to rent, these people move around for their job and do not wont to be locked into one place. And that brings up another topic, job security, who wants to get a home when you are not sure about your job.

I for one would love to own a home, and most likely will soon enough, but that could change. Who wants to pay a mortgage, rates, etc when you could just pay rent. You dont even have to worry about repairs.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

I'm with you mate and understand but don't you think ppl were struggling the same long long ago, meaning the ones who couldn't save that 30% deposit and have rented for ever ?
I'm a little older lol over 45, back in my 20's less than 50% of my mates married early, many like me walked down the aisle from 30.
Don't you think I thought when I got my first mortgage my wife expecting our 1st child how am I going to pay this ? plus not purchase in the area I was accustomed to because we couldn't afford the area at the time.
The only difference nowadays is the young grow up too fast and want it now !
I know ppl in their mid 20's now who got down and studied and made 3times the $$ I made in those times.
Come on too much doom and gloom, I have 3 kids and yes I think how are they going to afford this and that but I'm sure my parents and many others think/thought the same.
Give them good grounding,good schooling and I'm sure things turn out,if it doesn't they really have themselves to blame.

MATE TOTALY DISAGREE . you say young grow up to fast and want it now . then why arent they moving out . or why arent thier parents booting them out . as they did in earlier times . people in thier 50's and 60's now were 1/2 way across the world working by age 18. the 2 kids, (adults next door ) one is getting married this year @27 his fiancee has already moved in to the house ( his parants/myneighbours house ) they have 2 cars and a 30g debt. ( on the cars) no plans to move out( how can they?) and this guys sister 25 is at home single no plans to move out or marry and have kids because ( it's too hard) , but she has a mortgage and a unit which she is renting out . i work with a lot of people now pushing 30 still single still at home nice car , great income, and a car debt. but they have great holidays.
and you say they are growing up too fast and want it all now . i dont think so.

[Casper]

Well, looking at it from a purely personal gain perspective.. this is the best budget ever for myself and my family. To be honest it is far in excess of what I hoped and impacts positively in a number of ways for me.

I cant and wont complain about it one bit.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

MATE TOTALY DISAGREE . you say young grow up to fast and want it now . then why arent they moving out . or why arent thier parents booting them out . as they did in earlier times . people in thier 50's and 60's now were 1/2 way across the world working by age 18. the 2 kids, (adults next door ) one is getting married this year @27 his fiancee has already moved in to the house ( his parants/myneighbours house ) they have 2 cars and a 30g debt. ( on the cars) no plans to move out( how can they?) and this guys sister 25 is at home single no plans to move out or marry and have kids because ( it's too hard) , but she has a mortgage and a unit which she is renting out . i work with a lot of people now pushing 30 still single still at home nice car , great income, and a car debt. but they have great holidays.
and you say they are growing up too fast and want it all now . i dont think so.

This is all based on individual opinions of others not facts.

Because I can counter that and say I am a full time uni student, who is not living at home, and I have been renting for the past 4 years. My parents give me no financial help, I work two jobs and im paying off a small personal loan.

Oh and to top it off I get no benefits as I "earn to much". But if I stopped working then I will not have enough off the benefits to pay the rent and a couple of bills; let alone fuel etc etc; catch 22 I spose.

Once I finish uni then the plan is to get a good job and buy something somewhere.

But, I know plenty of mates who have just finished uni, are working full time and still live at home. This is very smart as they save a crap load in rent etc etc; I would do it if I could, but home is to far away from uni and work.

The days of finishing school, getting a job straight away and having your 2.1 kids are long gone.

[GreenMachine]

Well, I got some tax-cut loving, about a pack of smokes a week. Would be pretty happy if I was a breeder too.

Still not going to convince me to vote for Howard.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Casper

Well, looking at it from a purely personal gain perspective.. this is the best budget ever for myself and my family. To be honest it is far in excess of what I hoped and impacts positively in a number of ways for me.

I cant and wont complain about it one bit.

got to say the same casper . i have enjoyesd the previous 3 budgets and personally gained from them . however . regarding the economy. i dont think it has done much for us . except hold the nation back. we are not reaping the rewards.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

got to say the same casper . i have enjoyesd the previous 3 budgets and personally gained from them . however . regarding the economy. i dont think it has done much for us . except hold the nation back. we are not reaping the rewards.

From what I have gathered, apparently its only now that the budget is healthy. Hence some spending and investment. You can only invest if you have cleared your debts and left room for unexpected things and liabilities.

You wont see "rewards" for atleast another 5-10 years.

In the mean time you get tax cuts, which have been happening for the last 5 odd years in a row! Thats money in your pocket, what you choose to do with that is up to you.

Also its very easy to critisise, but if everyone is a know it all then post up some viable options; what could have been done better?

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

MATE TOTALY DISAGREE . you say young grow up to fast and want it now . then why arent they moving out . or why arent thier parents booting them out . as they did in earlier times . people in thier 50's and 60's now were 1/2 way across the world working by age 18. the 2 kids, (adults next door ) one is getting married this year @27 his fiancee has already moved in to the house ( his parants/myneighbours house ) they have 2 cars and a 30g debt. ( on the cars) no plans to move out( how can they?) and this guys sister 25 is at home single no plans to move out or marry and have kids because ( it's too hard) , but she has a mortgage and a unit which she is renting out . i work with a lot of people now pushing 30 still single still at home nice car , great income, and a car debt. but they have great holidays.
and you say they are growing up too fast and want it all now . i dont think so.

You have got to be kidding, the problem's above are perfect examples of wanting it now, 30g debt on cars they put before saving for the future !
Smart move by the above,no pity whatsoever.

As for the guys sister thats her choice what's wrong with that ?
and as for the ppl you work sounds like they have it all now, does mummy have dinner and breakky ready for them as well ?