Hoon laws 1st anniversary

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not suggesting right or wrong here, but there is a school of thought amongst allot of people that opening up sandown may in fact make the problem worse...
Its a difficult one.

It's worth a crack in my eyes, if it makes it worse, then it can easily be closed if it makes it better thats obviously a good thing.

Taking no action is the worst thing they could do.

[BigBastard]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not suggesting right or wrong here, but there is a school of thought amongst allot of people that opening up sandown may in fact make the problem worse...
Its a difficult one.

I understand that if it is open at Sandown we have the following problems:

1 - like summer/easter Nats, car enthusiasts will attend the site, and you will expect that 5% of "bad crowd" who will do standies, burnouts and wreck it for everyone else. Also the cops will be just outside rubbing their hands together ready to take out the other drivers who have nothing to do with the other 5%:evil3: .

2 - groups meeting before/after the event at various places *cough*noble park macdonalds: *cough* may cause problems for others, invite fights etc...

3 - noise levels for surrounding residents, will cause the residents to complaint, and get it shut down, like they tried to shut the easter/summer nats (and they were unsuccessful : )

ANYTHING that is passed on as a rule, will have it's pros and cons, but at the end of the line, those who have the power to pass a law take the lead. :

[goldberg]

guys lets get behind cams and rick langoor to start up off street drag club ok . if you a interested in the meeting on sunday 29 july o7 . its with cams and r. langoor . let me know i will get back as soon as possible thank you

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by TonkoXR8

I wouldnt think the person would deserve to get the money for it.
It's their choice whether they do stupid stuff in the car, and everybody knows the consequences (sp?)
....

No that wasnt the question the question was who gets the money?

They dont mind the revenue do they?? I mean it doesnt get passed on to the good Friday appeal etc etc

[Gilesie]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

You must know some long 50kmh roads as all in my areas are either full of roundabouts, speed humps etc and Id have trouble going over 50kmh even if I wanted to.

These roads dont need to be long for speeds that are dangerous
I park my ambulance on the street out the front of my house to slow the traffic down (50K zone). About a month ago a speeding motorist colided with said ambo, my mirror ended up half way in my next door nieghbours front lawn and the offending driver stoped 4 houses up the street.

To my surprise this was a woman in her 50`s.

[Tuddy200]

Originally Posted by Gilesie

To my surprise this was a woman in her 50`s.

Why is that such a suprise?

I drove with my mother who is 37 and she drove down a 60km street, told me *direct quote* "I never do less then 80 down this road"....

As a P Plater, who does the speed limit, who do you think I have tailgating me day in day out and speeding? Definility not other P Platers. :togo:


As for the reason I have the cops on my back, I'm a P Plater in a large-ish country town, I drive a Blueprint lowered 2004 BA XR6 tinted. Plus an exhaust upgrade all which make my car go and sound better, does that mean i'll hoon? No, does it mean i'll get followed for 20mins? Yes.

I'll use an example from the other night, me in my XR6 and my mate in his Ford Laser from 10+ years ago and I'm driving normally but my mate swings the back end out noticablly and there was an unmarked car 20m up at the intersection, did he even fidget? No, did he sit there and watch me take off from beside him at the lights while holding up three cars behind him? Yes.

They are targeting specific people, and we all know it. Stats will show me in ymy XR6 is more likily to get him another count on his tally, so he watches me, and as long as that continues, those that deserve to have their cars thrown out will continue to drive.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by Gilesie

These roads dont need to be long for speeds that are dangerous
I park my ambulance on the street out the front of my house to slow the traffic down (50K zone). About a month ago a speeding motorist colided with said ambo, my mirror ended up half way in my next door nieghbours front lawn and the offending driver stoped 4 houses up the street.

To my surprise this was a woman in her 50`s.

Well thats a smart move or should I say brainless :

[MeLLy]

Originally Posted by G.J.Tuddy

Why is that such a suprise?

I drove with my mother who is 37 and she drove down a 60km street, told me *direct quote* "I never do less then 80 down this road"....

As a P Plater, who does the speed limit, who do you think I have tailgating me day in day out and speeding? Definility not other P Platers. :togo:


As for the reason I have the cops on my back, I'm a P Plater in a large-ish country town, I drive a Blueprint lowered 2004 BA XR6 tinted. Plus an exhaust upgrade all which make my car go and sound better, does that mean i'll hoon? No, does it mean i'll get followed for 20mins? Yes.

I'll use an example from the other night, me in my XR6 and my mate in his Ford Laser from 10+ years ago and I'm driving normally but my mate swings the back end out noticablly and there was an unmarked car 20m up at the intersection, did he even fidget? No, did he sit there and watch me take off from beside him at the lights while holding up three cars behind him? Yes.

They are targeting specific people, and we all know it. Stats will show me in ymy XR6 is more likily to get him another count on his tally, so he watches me, and as long as that continues, those that deserve to have their cars thrown out will continue to drive.

Thats what i've been trying to say for ages now through other threads but everytime i do i get slammed for it,Because im apparently winging about the crap p platers get to deal with.People need to wake up and look at whats really going on around them i think atleast when i get my full license i wont become biast like most.

[BigBastard]

P platers do get targeted, and I say that, as my brother is a P plater and he gets pulled over every week at least once, he is now used it.

he drives a commodore VS which explains a few things ... however i do believe the hoon law has made nice changes, i haven't seen a fully sick VL down the roads for a while now :evil3:

i do not see many d***heads driving around and doing stupid things while driving and wanting to show off. I used to attend the "legal" drags down princess hwy, westall and several other places which will remain nameless, and i have seen improvement in regards to safety and more of a car enthusiast side of things.

remeber it only takes on out of the crowd to wreck the whole evening for everyone else

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Who gets the money when they sell your car after the 3rd offence?

I'm not exactly sure, but I'm told that it goes to paying for storage costs and the like. The government is not meant to get any of it. This is what I'm told.....whether or not I believe............

[SDKC]

I'll just answer all the posts that have been on this subject in one post.

To Melly,

I like you did not do enough research. I am from Victoria and in Victoria in the metropolitan area impound to one location. We tell the driver of the vehicle how much it will cost in total before the tow truck arrives. It is a pre determined amount and no more. There is no ticket given to the driver, he is summonsed to go to court at a later date to have the matter dealt with by the magistrate.
As for what happens in other states is for them. I only jumped on the revenue raising part of your post, because when I give people fines, it's for breaking the law, I don't get any of the money.

I personally didn't notice you bagging coppers in any of your posts. You may have been, but it's nothing I haven't seen or read before.

To refer to my above post:

I am only a worker and we are not told who gets the money after the forfeiture of a car. The only thing that we have been told is that the money gets broken up to pay for things like the cost of the storage and the tow costs etc.......

Like I said with my "coming out of the closet" thread. Dealing with the coppers is an attitude thing. We do not have to impound every car that has been "hooning" (and I use hooning as a loose term, I don't like the term, it has been created by the media like "road rage"), we can still summons the driver with an improper use (or hoon) offence and not take their car. That gives a strike against their name still. (3 strikes in 3 years and your car is applied to be forfeited).

As for chasing after P platers. It's a personal thing. Personally I'll book anyone. (After failing certain tests of course.)

Someone (can't remember who), mentioned that the City of Casey wishes to change speed limits to 40. They also mentioned that Dandenong was a part of Casey. Just for your info, Dandenong is in the City of Greater Dandenong, not Casey.

[SDKC]

Just one last thing......a scenario for you.

Sitting in the marked car, visible to the traffic, with the laser at night, 80 zone.

'06 V8 Commodore ute (manual) comes up the road.

Laser = 162km/h at 230mtrs away. (That is 82km/h over the speed limit.)

Intercept vehicle. 19 year old driver in Dad's car, had his licence a year.

What would you do?

[Green X]

Originally Posted by SDKC

Just one last thing......a scenario for you.

Sitting in the marked car, visible to the traffic, with the laser at night, 80 zone.

'06 V8 Commodore ute (manual) comes up the road.

Laser = 162km/h at 230mtrs away. (That is 82km/h over the speed limit.)

Intercept vehicle. 19 year old driver in Dad's car, had his licence a year.

What would you do?

Tell the kid he is a flaming idiot, issue a fine leaving him with 1 point left on his license and tell him next time he will loose the car then Make a phone call to the old man and tell him what his son has just been caught doing in his car and let the old man sort his son out.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by SDKC

Just one last thing......a scenario for you.

Sitting in the marked car, visible to the traffic, with the laser at night, 80 zone.

'06 V8 Commodore ute (manual) comes up the road.

Laser = 162km/h at 230mtrs away. (That is 82km/h over the speed limit.)

Intercept vehicle. 19 year old driver in Dad's car, had his licence a year.

What would you do?

If his attitudes good and or hes remorsefull.... Drop the Speed to 104kmh and fine him the couple of hundred bucks and points. Then fine him for driving the restricted vehicle, and most importantly tell him how lucky he is not to be walking for a long time and how lucky he is to be getting a break, so dont abuse it and let me catch you again.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SDKC

Just one last thing......a scenario for you.

Sitting in the marked car, visible to the traffic, with the laser at night, 80 zone.

'06 V8 Commodore ute (manual) comes up the road.

Laser = 162km/h at 230mtrs away. (That is 82km/h over the speed limit.)

Intercept vehicle. 19 year old driver in Dad's car, had his licence a year.

What would you do?

Personally id apply what ever clear and obvious fines and charges his act of stupidity attracts, if its "line ball" on one of the issues and he's remorseful and co-operative id take the concervative approach and drop it back 1 peg, if he gives you attitude or lip throw the book at him and do the car over too..

[FPV8U]

Green X & ED Classic you are very nice people and to be honest i think that is the best way to deal with it, your effectivly giving them a second chance if they blow it it's their own fault.

Were if you just tear up there licence they'll an moan how the only made one stupid mistake and given a second chance they wouldn't do it again, the first option makes them proove that.

[goldberg]

I agree to you a good guys but just want say not all police a bad there only doing there job , but like my uncle says to me and he is a snr stg in the police. police can do things wrong and some have aditudes problems to.

[NEEDspeed]

True, some police have attitude problems. I was driving back from Kattaning SW W.A and was travelling behind a fair amount of traffic at 100km/h in the 110 zone. Low and behold, the hold-up was caused by a couple of these mal-adjusted police in a hwy patrol car. Each time an overtaking lane was arrived at they sped up and no-one was attempting to overtake simply because you could tell they'd give you a fine.

Long story short, after an hour following em I engaged 110 on the cruise control and krept past them at the next dual-lane. BIG smirk on one of the GIMP's faces as he pointed me out to his bud.
Needless to say I shook me head at them, and also took note of the license plate. In reporting their activities the next day to central office, I was told they were well within their power to do such a thing IF they thought the speed limit should be lowered in certain conditions. Sunny day...clear sky and road but they couldve well said it was greasy and I was wrong.

Gotta love some pigs...

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Green X & ED Classic you are very nice people and to be honest i think that is the best way to deal with it, your effectivly giving them a second chance if they blow it it's their own fault.

Were if you just tear up there licence they'll an moan how the only made one stupid mistake and given a second chance they wouldn't do it again, the first option makes them proove that.

Well I have to be honest I had the Police give me that second chance when I was younger & its probably a good reason why I didnt go throwing bottles at Police cars down the local drags like many a young person. You dont drive away from your second chance thinking beuty I can go doing 100kmh over the limit whenever I like now...beleive me.

As I said in an earlier post here its no good throwing the book at people with a reasonable attitude and remorse just cause you can like 4V Man suggests, You will only go and breed a criminal and when they dont have a car because its been sold (impounded) they might go and steal one a drive without insurance and not stop when police try to pull them over because they know they are in for a hard time so the try to outrun the Police untill they kill someone/many innocent. Sound like a story?? Well I often here the term we are becoming like America? They have strict penalties and throw the book everytime and look how many chases and people that run from Police because they have little to lose.

[SDKC]

For those that answered my scenario, you are a nice bunch.

I impounded the car.

When Dad was told, he was happy with us, but extremely unhappy with son.

Court date pending.

[Full Noise]

G’day SDKC,
I understand that you have the power of discretion and the Holden ute driver, unfortunately for him, was way outside the parameters for you to exercise this. Under the legislation, you had no choice other than to impound the vehicle, and hopefully he will learn a hard lesson about keeping his speed to an appropriate level for the surroundings.

Today the state government (Vic) announced new penalties for drivers who fail to stop for police. On occasions, I’ve been unable to stop exactly where a police officer has directed me to. I’m a little concerned that this legislation could be used to unfairly target people in my situation. For those people outside of Victoria, they have brought the penalties up to the same level as the Hoon legislation, however, the Government has also increased the penalty to $6500 for this offence. I believe that there is a grey area between being unable to stop and being unwilling, or trying to outrun the police.

Also, today, Matthew Newton (Bert Newton’s son), had his conviction for assault quashed, even though he admitted to the assault. The magistrate said that an assault charge could hinder Newton’s prospects for work as an actor. I believe that this sets a dangerous precedent as the ute driver could use the same argument with the charges he’s facing over the speeding issue, however, it’s highly unlikely that he’ll be successful.

I was just wondering what your view is on this?

Cheers

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

G’day SDKC,
I understand that you have the power of discretion and the Holden ute driver, unfortunately for him, was way outside the parameters for you to exercise this. Under the legislation, you had no choice other than to impound the vehicle, and hopefully he will learn a hard lesson about keeping his speed to an appropriate level for the surroundings.

True, I didn't mean to look (or sound) like I enjoyed it in my post above. It was my first impound and it was an interesting process.

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Today the state government (Vic) announced new penalties for drivers who fail to stop for police. On occasions, I’ve been unable to stop exactly where a police officer has directed me to. I’m a little concerned that this legislation could be used to unfairly target people in my situation. For those people outside of Victoria, they have brought the penalties up to the same level as the Hoon legislation, however, the Government has also increased the penalty to $6500 for this offence. I believe that there is a grey area between being unable to stop and being unwilling, or trying to outrun the police.

I cannot and do not generalise about police on this forum, there are other members on this forum and I do not speak for them. However, in my experience, we are people as well. You know when someone is looking for a safe spot to pull over or if they are going to run. For example, the Holden driver: my offsider and I could tell that for a split second, he thought about running. It was just the "body language" of the car. He took the right option and pulled over.

When you intercept a driver, before turning on the lights to intercept, you look at where you are. You try not to intercept in an area that is going to cause a traffic problem. You need to find a safe spot for yourself and the driver of the vehicle being intercepted (you don't know if he is going to be one of those people that get out of the car and approach you before you have time to put the hand-brake on). So I don't really believe that this new legislation is going to be "used" against anyone. We may find out that it can only be used after an official pursuit. I only heard about this legislation on the news when I got home from work tonight, so I know as much (maybe less) than you.

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Also, today, Matthew Newton (Bert Newton’s son), had his conviction for assault quashed, even though he admitted to the assault. The magistrate said that an assault charge could hinder Newton’s prospects for work as an actor. I believe that this sets a dangerous precedent as the ute driver could use the same argument with the charges he’s facing over the speeding issue, however, it’s highly unlikely that he’ll be successful.

My personal view, defense solicitor's will try anything to get their client off. My job is to present the facts of the matter to the magistrate and it is up to him to decide what is the result. It makes me always make sure I am dotting my i's and crossing my t's.

Originally Posted by Full noise

I was just wondering what your view is on this?

Yes. These are my views and not the views of my employer or anyone else affiliated with my employer. (Little disclaimer, don't know who may be reading..)

[Full Noise]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, SDKC.

Your views are appreciated.

Cheers

[ED Classic]

My main problem with making laws stricter and stricter besides as I said above... you will end up eventually locking everyone up for anything... is that if Police are going to have these powers and go in court and say he did this and said this, then... I want all officers wired for voice recordings (Every officer) and I want every Police car to have cameras and video tappings. Let the court decide Facts rather than the opinion of a person charged vs 1 (and most of the time 2) Police officer/s.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by SDKC

Court date pending.

Out of curiosity what are you hoping to achieve in court?

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Out of curiosity what are you hoping to achieve in court?

Not for me to decide. That's up to the magistrate.

I know it sounds like a cop out answer, but that is my job. To stay impartial and present the facts. I tell the magistrate what happened and he decides the best punishment or let him off. Either way I have done my job.

Originally Posted by ED Classic

I want all officers wired for voice recordings (Every officer)

me too.

Originally Posted by ED Classic

and I want every Police car to have cameras and video tappings.

me too.....well video tapings not tappings.

Originally Posted by ED classsic

Let the court decide Facts rather than the opinion of a person charged vs 1 (and most of the time 2) Police officer/s.

Well this happens now. The facts that is, not the opinion.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by SDKC

Well this happens now. The facts that is, not the opinion.

Well you'd like to think it does..but the fact is over many years hundreds of Police have been kicked out of the force or suspended etc for various offences so when you hear that sometimes the odd Police tells 110% of the story (for one reason or another) rather than 100% you just never know... PS I have never been to court for any offence so no I dont have a bone to pick.. but its good we agree that video and Tapings would be a good thing in regard to this + other advantages.

[sexr6tasy]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Well you'd like to think it does..but the fact is over many years hundreds of Police have been kicked out of the force or suspended etc for various offences so when you hear that sometimes the odd Police tells 110% of the story (for one reason or another) rather than 100% you just never know... PS I have never been to court for any offence so no I dont have a bone to pick.. but its good we agree that video and Tapings would be a good thing in regard to this + other advantages.

The video and tapings would only be good if they were acted on you constantly hear cops doing stupid stuff and getting away with it not even losing there jobs ect. its ridiculous down with double standards.

[MeLLy]

Yes like the copper from SA last 2 years ago who got done drink driving, kept his license and his car but had to resign from his job....Fair in one way but unfair in the other...
And unlike many others i have been to court against the police and in some circumstances i do have a bone to pick but with one particular officer that would be cringing to know that his lies even sounded a little odd to a magistrate and that iam still driving because of his ignorance, so in a way i got my own back.
The police arnt the problem but a few of them give the others a bad name and its the certain few who do speak to you like crap, who lie in court & who break their own laws for their own personal pleasure that gives others a bad name.
Exactly the way p platers are percieved by the police and other road users, you come across a few bad ones often enough and u seem to be thinking they are all bad.
So you target them more often & your attitude towards them sours.

[BigBastard]

I agree with SDKC, what happens to the ute driver is up to the magistrate to decide, and that SDKC has done his job.
If the ute driver caused an accident with fatal casualties, it would be a tragedy for the driver and those whose lives he changed for ever. I hope he gets what he deserves, from loosing his license to a fine.
we will never know but SDKC's job of stopping the driver might have saved someone.

like any race/job/group there is always a percentage that will deface the rest of the race/job/group. For example, one bad cop, and 5 good cops, the bad cop will affect how others think of the group etc...