Series 1 brake upgrade for the mechanically challenged.

[Foggy]

Hey Night,
In regards to your ABS fraud say it needs to have an air bleed done but a quick method is bleed your brakes as normal then while test driving the car get the ABS to trigger a couple of times then go home and reblled again to make sure there is no air in the lines. Under normal conditions this is not a problem but when you disconect the lines air can get into the ABS pump.

Hope this helps.

[Night]

cheers for that. My gear is all painted now for anyone interested, just waiting for some time to put it all on.

[GK]

Originally Posted by JC

Brand new, that would be about right. Much better off getting the lot from a wreckers. FTG do the kits for around $1k with everything you need, and Aussie Car recyclers in Qld also do them for about half that. Both will post anywhere in Oz.

Or you could get a kit like this one for sale in Melbourne's west!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TICKFORD-AU2-...QQcmdZViewItem

GK

[sanjay]

okay none of this thread is making any sense to me. full of people getting different kits off ebay and somehow jacking their cars up professionally in their own backyards (i envy you guys :()

i wont be doing any work myself, all with my mech (so factor that into costs)

having just missed a by barely metres just then (who was turning right as i was going straight) - ive decided i want and need to beef up my brakes (just have standard AU brakes - not sure if the XR brakes are meant to be any better? but they feel like despite my mechanic saying my pads and rotors are fine).

what can i do for $500 - $800 to get the best bang for buck as far as braking is concerned? dont mind if i need new rotors, pads, maybe a few other things like a swaybar...but i do NOT want to be having an accident and today really shook me up, particularly as i never had much confidence in the AU brakes beforehand.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sanjay

okay none of this thread is making any sense to me. full of people getting different kits off ebay and somehow jacking their cars up professionally in their own backyards (i envy you guys :()

i wont be doing any work myself, all with my mech (so factor that into costs)

having just missed a by barely metres just then (who was turning right as i was going straight) - ive decided i want and need to beef up my brakes (just have standard AU brakes - not sure if the XR brakes are meant to be any better? but they feel like despite my mechanic saying my pads and rotors are fine).

what can i do for $500 - $800 to get the best bang for buck as far as braking is concerned? dont mind if i need new rotors, pads, maybe a few other things like a swaybar...but i do NOT want to be having an accident and today really shook me up, particularly as i never had much confidence in the AU brakes beforehand.

I don't think your issue was caused by AU1 brakes. I suspect you were travelling too close to the car in front. There is nothing wrong with the emergency stopping power of AU1 brakes. Anticipation will work better than brakes. Leaving enough room to the car in front of you will work better than better brakes.

Having done the preaching, here's some (simplified??) info on the upgrade. To upgrade your brakes to AU2 spec, you will need the following:

AU2 brake rotors & pads
AU2 callipers (including hoses)
AU2 Upright including balljoint and lower control arm
AU2 swaybar
AU2 swaybar chassis mounts
AU2 swaybar link ends

You will need at least 16" wheels to fit AU2 brakes/suspension.

The last 4 bits above are the same from AU2 right through to BF, so you can substitute BA to BF for any of them. There's not a lot of difference between AU2 to BF XT, but the Terries (SX/SY) and BF XRs got bigger brakes, but the difference between AU1 to AU2 upgrade is more noticeable than AU2 to BF.

Having said all of that, and having done the swap myself, the braking distance doesn't halve or anything. It's an improvement of maybe a few metres from 60, but the real improvement is the fact that the brakes do not fade under repeated application (for example, like when travelling down the Clyde or Brown mountains in NSW).

You can get the above parts from most wreckers for anywhere between $500 and $1k, plus fitting on top. If your local wrecker wants to charge more than say $650- for the lot, just tell them you can get them from a mob in Qld for $650 delivered; they should match price.

[sanjay]

I didn't explain myself very well. maybe a diagram can help



im going straight through the intersection, blue car. retard is in green car, turning right. they face a green light, no arrow (so turn when the path is clear), i face a green light with no arrow (so people coming from my side of the intersection can turn right and go straight)

im going along at 50kph (normally do 60 on that road too!) and im guessing he didnt see me because of the other cars (black) waiting to turn right. now, i was always taught, if you cant see YOU DONT GO, obviously he hadnt learned this. i hope he has an accident with someone who has comprehensive insurance so he can learn his lesson without up someone else financially.

he is in the middle of the intersection then obviously sees me and just stops (if you kept going you would have missed me completely, no chance for an accident) leaving me to do all the hard braking and i turned a little to the right instinctively to avoid him.

ive always however felt that the AU brakes are . compared to those on my bluebird and my dad's outback (2007 model) they feel floaty and dont have the intial bite of the other two cars i mentioned. i feel i have to brake earlier and harder than i do in the outback or bluebird to stop in the same spot. hence why i was always thinking of an upgrade, this event just forced me to do something about it.

i have an XR6 VCT, does this mean i already have beefier brakes than the standard model? i just read a couple of threads then, where someone got slotted rotors and really good pads all around on their S1 XR6 and they said it made a world of difference - could that be the cure for my problems?

just seems odd to go from beefy XR tickford brakes to stock falcon forte series 2 brakes and yet expecting the latter to be even better.

[GK]

Originally Posted by JC

I don't think your issue was caused by AU1 brakes. I suspect you were travelling too close to the car in front. There is nothing wrong with the emergency stopping power of AU1 brakes. Anticipation will work better than brakes. Leaving enough room to the car in front of you will work better than better brakes.

Having done the preaching, here's some (simplified??) info on the upgrade. To upgrade your brakes to AU2 spec, you will need the following:

AU2 brake rotors & pads
AU2 callipers (including hoses)
AU2 Upright including balljoint and lower control arm
AU2 swaybar
AU2 swaybar chassis mounts
AU2 swaybar link ends

You will need at least 16" wheels to fit AU2 brakes/suspension.

The last 4 bits above are the same from AU2 right through to BF, so you can substitute BA to BF for any of them. There's not a lot of difference between AU2 to BF XT, but the Terries (SX/SY) and BF XRs got bigger brakes, but the difference between AU1 to AU2 upgrade is more noticeable than AU2 to BF.

Having said all of that, and having done the swap myself, the braking distance doesn't halve or anything. It's an improvement of maybe a few metres from 60, but the real improvement is the fact that the brakes do not fade under repeated application (for example, like when travelling down the Clyde or Brown mountains in NSW).

You can get the above parts from most wreckers for anywhere between $500 and $1k, plus fitting on top. If your local wrecker wants to charge more than say $650- for the lot, just tell them you can get them from a mob in Qld for $650 delivered; they should match price.

Good advice JC.

GK

[JC]

The other car was certainly at fault, but also remember that a green light really means "proceed if it is clear"; and in this day and age, with so many poor drivers on the road, it is really more like "proceed with caution". You need to drive to expect the unexpected, even though that's very hard to do. The fact that you didn't connect sounds like you were kind of driving like that anyway (especially given you were at 50, and not 60).

There is no difference in the standard brakes fitted to a Forte, or an XR6 - they are the same. If your XR came optioned with the Tickford brakes (grooved discs) or Brembos, then you would already have better than AU2 braking performance. Even up to BA Mk2, the XRs (including XR8s), got the same brakes as the base model standard. Not too many people paid the extra for the upgrade brake kits (the standard AU2 onwards actually do the job for most drivers anyway; track warriors would have upgraded, or at least gone for an aftermarket upgrade).

Yes, DBA slotteds and Bendix Ultra Premium pads will help with repeated hard brake applications (ie they resist fade better), but might only make 1 metre difference in stopping power. The other wothwhile mod is to get braided brake lines - the tends to give a firmer pedal feel and better/faster braking as the brake hoses tend to direct all of the fluid to the calliper piston, instead of also swelling the brake hose up (ie same pedal effort results in firmer, and therefore quicker, braking performance).

[Night]

Hey JC, I'm going for braided lines on mine but are they legal? Have heard they're not.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Night

Hey JC, I'm going for braided lines on mine but are they legal? Have heard they're not.

I guess it depends on which ones you get. The ones available through repco are ADR compliant, which makes them legal in all 50 states (oops, forgot we're not part of the USA yet, I mean 6 states and both territories). The ones you get through your local brake supplier may not be compliant, and therefore may not be legal. My advice is to get the legal ones, even if they are a little more - you don't want to brake (break) the law!

[sanjay]

thanks JC, i guess the AU2 brake upgrade is the way to go. will give my mech a ring tomorrow.

i know the other driver wouldve been at fault - i know thats a shitty intersection near my house so i was already going a bit slower, but insurance companies never see eye to eye, and ive spent alot on this car already (in terms of pov-pack 18 year old uni student, probably not relative to most people on here :p) and it seems that id rather spend $800 getting better brakes and having the edge, rather than relying on the standard brakes and hoping for the best.

oh the other thing - do i need to upgrade the rear brakes to AU2 spec too, or is just doing the front over fine? is it going to make the car imbalanced or something if i just do the front? should i not be a tightass and get it all done at once? :p

thanks muchly for the help though

[JC]

The difference in AU1 to AU2 (and BA for that matter) rear brakes is 1/5 of bugger all. The swept area of the pad is pretty much the same, and they are all only single piston callipers on the rear.

The front brakes are a different story; the AU1 brakes are single piston callipers, acting on smaller discs, while the AU2s are twin piston callipers acting on slightly larger (around 1/2" diameter, I think) discs. It's actually the twin pistons combined with the larger pad swept area that makes the upgrade better than standard AU1. You could upgrade the master cylinder while you're at it, vut most don't and there doesn't seem to be much difference in pedal feel/braking effort from that point of view - just a fair increase in braking/clamping pressure, and therefore faster braking.

[sanjay]

oh, hate to double post but are there any other options for brake upgrades to the AU1 or am i really going to have to go the AU2 suspension upgrade?

what about some nice DBA slotted rotors, great pads (bendix advance? any others) - i would then be able to afford new shock absorbers which i reckon i need anyway all for under $1000, am i even going to get close to AU2 stock braking POWAH or forget it?

[JC]

Originally Posted by sanjay

oh, hate to double post but are there any other options for brake upgrades to the AU1 or am i really going to have to go the AU2 suspension upgrade?

what about some nice DBA slotted rotors, great pads (bendix advance? any others) - i would then be able to afford new shock absorbers which i reckon i need anyway all for under $1000, am i even going to get close to AU2 stock braking POWAH or forget it?

Asked and answered - refer to the last para in post #68 above. in terms of cost, DBAs are around $160 or so a pair, and the Bendix UPs are about $70 for the front, and $80 for the rear), so there's close to $500 for all 4 slotted discs, and the UPs all round. Plus fitting (allow around 1 hour labour if callipers etc are OK - ie these are cheaper to fit than the whole AU2 front though).

AU1 standard to DBA slotteds is a good upgrade, say around 15% improvement.
AU1 slotteds to AU2 is a good upgrade (say around 15% improvement)
AU1 to AU2 is a great upgrade. (say around 30% improvement).
AU1 standards to AU2 slotteds would be the best total upgrade - around 35 to 40% better braking performance.

Note that the % I have used are guesses only, just to show the relative difference between each option. The actual improvements may be more or less in overall %, but the relative difference between each step should be about right (it's how I did my brake upgrades, though I never bothered with the AU2 slotteds, as the standard discs were good enough coming from the AU1 base)

[sanjay]

god im an idiot, its late in the night and i forgot i already asked that question. thanks for your patience JC. im fairly sure i have all the answers i need.

replacing the shock absorbers someone said in these forums would help in reducing braking distance too, so thats also high on the list.

EDIT

Originally Posted by JC

Got slotted DBAs and Bendix Ultimates on all four wheels on my series 1 XR8, and it pulls up as well as the Series 2 wagon with the twin spot calipers and DBA slotteds at the front. Funny how an upgrade on a series one matches stock on a series 2. The slotted rotors + Advance/Ferodo pads are a huge improvement over stock on the series 1s.

quote from an old thread - this is what confused me and i think prompted me to ask the same question twice, lol.

[JC]

Originally Posted by sanjay

god im an idiot, its late in the night and i forgot i already asked that question. thanks for your patience JC. im fairly sure i have all the answers i need.

replacing the shock absorbers someone said in these forums would help in reducing braking distance too, so thats also high on the list.

EDIT



quote from an old thread - this is what confused me and i think prompted me to ask the same question twice, lol.

That quote is still correct for daily driving, but not for repeated hard brake applications (ie track days, or spirited mountain driving - within speed limits of course). So the % improvements I listed above are overall.

In terms of one outright hard braking stop, there's not much in it between the DBAs and AU2s. But repeat it 4 or 5 times, and the AU1s start to fade pretty badly, even with the DBAs.

[RspecAU]

I am supprised that no one has made and article for this on the aufalcon.com site

[poolkeeper]

They the same?
I bolted them up and it all seems to fit, expect there is alot of room between the pads and disc. Is this just a matter of bleeding the brakes to bring the piston out? Or is the rotor bigger than the AU1 item??
thanks guys...

[LPGUTE]

yes i think AU2 have a bigger rotor

[poolkeeper]

Ok got a quote, Im I getting ripped off? $440

Lower control arms
sway bar, mounts and link ends
upright, balljoint...

All parts of a BA, and they have to be removed by the wrecker

[The Dok]

Originally Posted by D1XR2C

Ok got a quote, Im I getting ripped off? $440

Lower control arms
sway bar, mounts and link ends
upright, balljoint...

I've been quoted @$570 for all this + callipers & rotors & I thought that was a little expensive!

[sly]

Originally Posted by sanjay

oh, hate to double post but are there any other options for brake upgrades to the AU1 or am i really going to have to go the AU2 suspension upgrade?

Very occasionally, a set of AU1 premium front brakes (rotors and calipers only) comes up for sale. A member here posted a few months ago that he had a set for sale on ebay, with a starting bid of $650 IIRC. I didn't follow the progress of the auction.

These bolt straight onto the stock AU1 suspension without changing any other parts.

There is a mob who modify the uprights (aka spindles, stub axles, steering knuckles) to fit a larger caliper using an adapter (known as a dogbone 'cos that's what it looks like). They also supply their own discs. The thread is here http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...upgrade+option. Not a cheap option though.

Other than those, as others suggest, top quality slotted rotors and pads will help, but to a lesser extent.

[sly]

Originally Posted by JC

the AU1 brakes are single piston callipers, acting on smaller discs, while the AU2s are twin piston callipers acting on slightly larger (around 1/2" diameter, I think) discs..

The standard front disc diameter for all series AU's is 287mm. The AU2&3 have thicker rotors, presumably for better heat dissipation. BA/F front rotors are 298mm diameter.

[sanjay]

got new bendix pads and a brake fluid flush...it does feel much better now, will upgrade to slotted rotors when i get some more moola under my belt (quoted $270 front and $270 rear, RDA slotted rotors).

[sly]

Originally Posted by The Dok

I've been quoted @$570 for all this + callipers & rotors & I thought that was a little expensive!

The first quote I had from a wrecker for the lot was around $425... 2-3 years ago. When I went to get it about 9 months ago, the price was close to $800 "due to demand from taxis" I was told. I thought I did well getting it for $650 or so freighted from Brisbane. I reckon $570 for the lot, or $440 minus rotors & calipers is not a bad price.

How much longer can AU's be used as taxis? It'll be interesting to see if prices come down after then...

[JC]

Originally Posted by sly

The standard front disc diameter for all series AU's is 287mm. The AU2&3 have thicker rotors, presumably for better heat dissipation. BA/F front rotors are 298mm diameter.

Yes - you are correct. I forgot that I got mine off genebaby, and they came from his XR8; that's why they'd be bigger.

[Night]

Ok guys it look like I will finally get a chance to fit these brakes this weekend and I'm sick of seeing all this stuff sitting in my shed too. Everything is painted ready to go all I need is to get some pads. Only problem is that I have lost all the bolts that I got with this when I ripped them off at the wreckers. The only bolts I need now are the four that are for the brake mounting plate to the stub axles. Will high tension bolts be all right for this or do I need something other and if anyone can tell me what kind of bolt I would really appreciate it, being brakes I thought I'd ask to make sure.
The other thing is the brake line is fixed to the chassis at the moment where it connects to the steel line but on the BA brakes it has another fixing half way down the brake line. Do I worry about mounting that somewhere and if so where is the best position or do I just leave it. It has been quite a while since I ripped all this gear off so I can't quite remember the finer points and any help would be great.

[poolkeeper]

Originally Posted by Night

Ok guys it look like I will finally get a chance to fit these brakes this weekend and I'm sick of seeing all this stuff sitting in my shed too. Everything is painted ready to go all I need is to get some pads. Only problem is that I have lost all the bolts that I got with this when I ripped them off at the wreckers. The only bolts I need now are the four that are for the brake mounting plate to the stub axles. Will high tension bolts be all right for this or do I need something other and if anyone can tell me what kind of bolt I would really appreciate it, being brakes I thought I'd ask to make sure.
The other thing is the brake line is fixed to the chassis at the moment where it connects to the steel line but on the BA brakes it has another fixing half way down the brake line. Do I worry about mounting that somewhere and if so where is the best position or do I just leave it. It has been quite a while since I ripped all this gear off so I can't quite remember the finer points and any help would be great.

I would get the bolts from ford, cost $4 each, just for safetys sake
With the brake line mount, mid way, I left it as I found it doesnt really foul or get caught anywhere.

[mattp]

Since this has been dredged up, thought I'd put this out there for anyone with this in mind, there's a guy on ebay (based in Melbourne) who I've dealt with before, he's a good guy, and he's selling everything you need for ~$350, which is cheaper than the best price I've heard from a wrecker (~$500ish). Do a search if you're interested. Cheers, Matt.

[lostdude]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but is anyone interested in a set of BA brakes so thats calipers uprights rotors etc.

I was told by who i bought it off that they came off an xr6 turbo but i don't think they are premium brakes so just the normal standard Ba brakes you get as i'm pretty sure they are all the same.

its all you need for the series 1 brake conversion but just need the stabliser bar which can be picked up from fordpro in smithfield for less than 80 bucks (i called them up when i got the brakes).

The rotors and bushs look like they are in very good condition from my limited knowledge but happy for anyone to inspect. (located in campbelltown NSW)

I bought these off ebay and i just want to cover my costs of what i got them for.

selling it for $150

Reason for selling is finally at the end of uni and looking to get a full time job so i can afford to upgrade the trusty old falcon to something abit quicker so i'm not going to bother with fixing up the falcon, have my eyes on a 05 STi .

thanks