Ecoboost whats the point

[MWTB]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

cant buy an 8 any more, just the sc8.

My mistake.

Point still stands though, can always buy a low km second hand 8 if you're keen on one.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by MWTB

My mistake.

Point still stands though, can always buy a low km second hand 8 if you're keen on one.

yep, exactly what i did lol, well, apart from the low km part.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I know everyone here compares the ecoboost to Camry etc in terms of its target market, but even Camry owners sometimes tinker with their motors for some extra ponies!

So in saying that, I was still waiting for someone to tune the bloody thing, until I found this on GoAuto "While fundamentally a more highly tuned version of the 2.0-litre EcoBoost engine found locally in the Mondeo mid-sizer, Ford Australia undertook a three-year development program to get it right for a larger car like the Falcon."

So the Falcon one is simply tuned up??

I do wonder what sort of aftermarket gains will be made on these.

The point of my F6 is performance + a reliable family sedan, the point of the ecoboost is fuel economy + family sedan... maybe with a tune and light mods people could have the better part of all three?

[nstg8a]

im sure there was a post elsewhere where it was claimed the 2.0l eb is also available somewhere in something as a 224kw motor... that would shake the tree a bit.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

If they throw the bigger ecoboost engine in (V6, same as the F150's run) it would certainly rattle the commodore boys, those trucks are picking up around 90hp with an exhaust and tune! That's with 93 ocatane fuel too.

[Nic85]

Yes, but US 93 octane = AUS 98 octane.

There will be gains to be had with the usual exhaust, tune, intercooler route with Ecoboost for sure. Probably go close to 200kW - but what will reliability be like? We'll have to wait and see.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm more excited about the 3 cyl 1L Ecoboost going into Fiesta and entry level Focus, now that is interesting.

Ford should try shoehorning that into the FG. It would handle great, have brilliant fuel economy, and still go faster than an N/A camry. 2 electric motors in the front wheel hubs with a small capacitor/battery pack could help to move the mass around quicker.

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Ford should try shoehorning that into the FG. It would handle great, have brilliant fuel economy, and still go faster than an N/A camry. 2 electric motors in the front wheel hubs with a small capacitor/battery pack could help to move the mass around quicker.

You do realise the N/A Camry gets to 100km/h in 9 seconds, right? And the Hybrid Camry is 8 second flat. A Focus with the 1L Ecoboost engine takes 12 seconds to 100km/h, and the car weighs 1200kgs. A Falcon with that engine, based on those facts, would take around 15-16 seconds, or about 2 months.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by olds

So I fork out 36k and Im worried about 10 cent /litre in fuel costs ?

With that logic the BMW 7 series should come with the Petrol V12 twin turbo ONLY.
Hey if you are paying $200,000+ for a car you clearly don't NEED the economy of the v6 diesel 7 Series. So you might as well just pay the running costs of the gas guzzling v12. Why not.

[brett7777]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You honeslty havn't looked at this numbers of this engine have you? Both fuel & speed wise!! If you had, the quesiton would have been "what is the point of I6"!!!

The modern I6 is still a bit more powerful on paper, & may also be quicker off the mark & a bit more torquey? I dunno if anyone has done a comparison in the real world, like a 1/4 mile shootout?

I think that's almost like saying, why buy an XR8 when the XR6T was faster? yet people still bought XR8's, because the XR8 was the motor they wanted.

I suppose some people will still want the I6, Im seeing heaps of FG XR6's on the road here now. Haven't seen a single 4cyl yet but it's early days here in NZ.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by olds

Ok may get shot down here but I cant see anybody except fleets and taxis wanting ecoboost over the I6 . Convince me otherwise .

It's of NO use for taxis, none, FoA have stated this engine cannot really be converted to run on LPG, NOT recommended, besides the IL6 runs fine on LPG, a marriage made in heaven

As for fleets they would be better off with a cheaper Hybrid Camry, its a better package, if they are pushing the 4 cyl. requirement.

Buying a Falcon, buy the ECOLPI, its win x win [still a bit heavy on LPG for mine] smashes the EB to bits in $/km and performance etc

FoA should do a diesel powered Falcon, with a 2.2/4cyl donk.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

What is the Point of your Question?
Why are you targeting us? Why not ask the same question of others?

As an individual, the last Falcon I bought new was a BF2 GT, but previously we’ve bought an XF, EB, EF, & AU, also near new XF2, EA, and AU3. (And yes most of those were put on LPG.)
As a family car we’ve been looking at Territorys, but to be honest I don’t like the TD so I'm actually looking for TTG to put on LPG.
I have thought of another GT as my personal car, but my current plan is to go for something more nostalgic.

In my penultimate role, I bought several Rangers, Tojos, and a few BFs. I wanted to have them on LPG, but that would have meant giving the managers fuel cards whereas we had our own ULP bowser onsite.
In my last role, again a LOT of Rangers, although the Boss had a G6E.
In my new role, who knows, I'm not sure what the Communists use for cars now days…

Why ask? Because both of you are the ones who are are so scathing over the EB4.
You have bought a wide range of vehicles that suit your needs most of which could also fit into "whats the point" to the majority of car buyers.

The EB4 will outsell the SC8 and I suspect may even outsell the ecolpi but even it it doesn't it is an alternative that may keep some previous Falcon buyers who are now looking at 4 cyl in the fold and offer an alternative to 4 cyl buyers who had not previously considered Falcon.

Apart from some expensive euros what other RWD 4cylinder cars are available?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Based on what exactly? Might pay to do some research on sedan sales numbers in categories where diesel options are available. You might be surprised.

And you might be surprised to read the kings in Diesel sedons (Merc & BWM) have both come out & said Diesel cars are in decline in that segment & smaller turbo charged petrol ones are increasing!!!

Go figure!!

[csv8]

As I have said before..the Mondeo is the better car for the money, better equipment level etc..when comparing Ecoboost to Mondeo Zetec..Mondeo wins , hands down....

[Rodge]

1. 74 kg's less weight over the nose giving better weight distribution and a better balanced car.
2. 13 mm lower ride height
3. Firmer spring settings giving better handling especially in conjunction with points 1 & 2 above
4. Lower registration costs
5. Reduced fuel consumption, (just becaise one bunch or jurno's getting up the cars returned only marginally better consumption doesn't mean Joe average driving in a Joe average way won't get the ~ 20% fuel savings suggested by the ADR figures)
6. Longer range
7. Obvious Fleet and Govt advantages due to fleet buying policies.
8. Greater spread of torque than the IL6 giving more relaxed driving, (max torque arrives much earlier in the rev range)

Much as many of us don't like to admitt it, most of the time we're really just cruising and I think in real world conditions the efficiency gains suggested by the much lower ADR figures of the EB will be seen by most motorists.

[RAPID_BA]

People buy camrys because they want the size but they get tight *** when it comes to running cost. Like asking for a hotdog without the snag in my opinion. But unfortunately people think like that

for ford to sit at the table with "those people" = ecoboost.

Id take the i6 and a v8 if it was available.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by flappist

1) $200 per year cheaper rego (in QLD anyway).
2) Cheaper to run as far as fuel is concerned without any of the compromises of LPG.
3) Longer range.
4) Lighter and better handling.
5) "Eco friendly" and "green" which to some is even more important that stripes and 20" rims.

It is important to remember than not everyone wants what you want and Falcon is available in a T4, NA6, LPG6, two different T6s and two different V8s.

Can you name another vehicle anywhere in the world with such a broad choice?

Originally Posted by Rodge

1. 74 kg's less weight over the nose giving better weight distribution and a better balanced car.
2. 13 mm lower ride height
3. Firmer spring settings giving better handling especially in conjunction with points 1 & 2 above
4. Lower registration costs
5. Reduced fuel consumption, (just becaise one bunch or jurno's getting up the cars returned only marginally better consumption doesn't mean Joe average driving in a Joe average way won't get the ~ 20% fuel savings suggested by the ADR figures)
6. Longer range
7. Obvious Fleet and Govt advantages due to fleet buying policies.
8. Greater spread of torque than the IL6 giving more relaxed driving, (max torque arrives much earlier in the rev range)

Much as many of us don't like to admitt it, most of the time we're really just cruising and I think in real world conditions the efficiency gains suggested by the much lower ADR figures of the EB will be seen by most motorists.

You both got it in one. As I said before in another thread...in Queensland, if they market this thing right, it'll sell very well. If I now had the choice between our G6E and an ecoboost G6E, it'd literally be no contest...the ecoboost would be in the driveway. In fact I'm a bit annoyed I didn't realise this was coming or I'd have held out another year and bought one of them instead.
Cheaper rego, cheaper insurance, lower running costs...the list goes on. You'd be stupid not to go for one, and given that the vast majority of drivers couldn't care less about 0-100 or quarter mile times, the thing could even have been slower than it is and it'd sell on those points...given however that it's so close in performance that no one but a motoring expert would pick them apart, that doesn't matter.

Our G6E has 43,000km on it since February last year...I'd seriously consider swapping to an ecoboost right now if I could get a good trade, given the kilometers we do.

[Brazen]

Diesel would have been much better for the Falcon, it would have transformed the appeal to fleets and private buyers. Diesel sells itself, no complex markerting message to get across to consumers, the fact that Ford don't even know how to advertise the ecoboost shows the challenge.

Personally I think a new wagon would be much more effective in gaining sales across a full range of variants including XR. People who buy brand new cars have moved on from sedans. A new body style would also freshen the range and give people a reason to look again at the FG after 4 years on sale.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You both got it in one. As I said before in another thread...in Queensland, if they market this thing right, it'll sell very well. If I now had the choice between our G6E and an ecoboost G6E, it'd literally be no contest...the ecoboost would be in the driveway. In fact I'm a bit annoyed I didn't realise this was coming or I'd have held out another year and bought one of them instead.
Cheaper rego, cheaper insurance, lower running costs...the list goes on. You'd be stupid not to go for one, and given that the vast majority of drivers couldn't care less about 0-100 or quarter mile times, the thing could even have been slower than it is and it'd sell on those points...given however that it's so close in performance that no one but a motoring expert would pick them apart, that doesn't matter.

Our G6E has 43,000km on it since February last year...I'd seriously consider swapping to an ecoboost right now if I could get a good trade, given the kilometers we do.

This is the problem, the only appeal ecoboost has is to people who would of bought an I6 anyway. It won't gain sales like diesel or a wagon would. Heck a new RTV would probably gain more sales.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by olds

Ok may get shot down here but I cant see anybody except fleets and taxis wanting ecoboost over the I6 . Convince me otherwise .

If you need to be convinced, you are not the target market. You have a Territory, they are pointless to me, doesnt make it any less a car because i dont want one, and also doesnt make me want to start a useless thread.

Id i wanted a large 4 cylinder car id more then likely buy an Ecoboost Falcon.

[Rodge]

Diesel engines are very heavy, giving a nose heavy, poorly balanced car. Don't believe me, test drive an XF Jaguar 3.0D and see for yourself.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Brazen

This is the problem, the only appeal ecoboost has is to people who would of bought an I6 anyway. It won't gain sales like diesel or a wagon would. Heck a new RTV would probably gain more sales.

On the contrary, those who would never have looked at Falcon before due to its fuel consumption might look at it again with a new, modern and efficient 4-cylinder engine in it.

[RASER]

Mmmmmmm lotsa love here for Diesel, and rightly so, the 2.2L/4Cyl. Diesel would have worked a treat in the Falcon engine bay

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Diesel engines are very heavy, giving a nose heavy, poorly balanced car. Don't believe me, test drive an XF Jaguar 3.0D and see for yourself.

That's why they now have 4cyl. diesel donks under the bonnet

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by RASER

That's why they now have 4cyl. diesel donks under the bonnet

Reality check... 140 Kw's powering a Falcon...I don't think so

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Reality check... 140 Kw's powering a Falcon...I don't think so

I am not going to way into the diesel debate in a Falcon, but the new Territory (although a V6) is 140kw in a much heavier car then Falcon, and as most if not all diesel's these day's are turbo, I don't see the lower Kw fiqure being an issue.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by NX74205

On the contrary, those who would never have looked at Falcon before due to its fuel consumption might look at it again with a new, modern and efficient 4-cylinder engine in it.

I disagree, the people who want that kind of engine want the package to go with it. They want xenons, push button start, voice control, moonroof, blind spot assistance. The people who don't want those features would have probably been happy with the I6 to begin with. They are trying to find the 4 people in Australia who want a sophisticated ecoboost engine coupled with a car with a lot less features than most other cars on the market.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Diesel would have been much better for the Falcon, it would have transformed the appeal to fleets and private buyers. Diesel sells itself, no complex markerting message to get across to consumers, the fact that Ford don't even know how to advertise the ecoboost shows the challenge.

Personally I think a new wagon would be much more effective in gaining sales across a full range of variants including XR. People who buy brand new cars have moved on from sedans. A new body style would also freshen the range and give people a reason to look again at the FG after 4 years on sale.

Yep I would buy a Diesel over Ecoboost... More power and better economy... Still gives you the 6 appeal too.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

I am not going to way into the Diesel debate in a Falcon, but the new Territory (although a V6) is 140kw in a much heavier car then Falcon, and as most if not all diesel's theseday's are Turbo, I don't see the lower Kw fiqure being an issue.

Regardless of whether people perceive 140 Kw's as adequate or otherwise in a Falcon, (I think Falc buyers are looking for more performance than a Territory), fact is Ford Au don't have access to that 2.2 diesel engine and Tata Motors injected $900m into Jaguar not Ford Au and there isn't anything like that sort of money at Ford Au's disposal. Fact is there's allready a vast array of engine choices to power the Falc, honestly you'd think some people are just looking for any excuse not to buy one.
XF Jaguar 2.2 diesel with 8 sp ZF 0-100 Km/hr 8.5 seconds
EB Falcon 2.0 with 6 sp ZF 0-100 km/hr 6.6 seconds

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Regardless of whether people perceive 140 Kw's as adequate or otherwise in a Falcon, (I think Falc buyers are looking for more performance than a Territory), fact is Ford Au don't have access to that 2.2 diesel engine and Tata Motors injected $900m into Jaguar not Ford Au and there isn't anything like that sort of money at Ford Au's disposal. Fact is there's allready a vast array of engine choices to power the Falc, honestly you'd think some people are just looking for any excuse not to buy one.

The Territory V6 in the lighter Falcon would out perform the Ecoboost all day everyday... And give buyers the prestige associated with the Diesel yuppie fuel.

Plus Ford would have saved a ******** of money at the same time (one motor instead of 2).