Environmentally-backwards Australia becoming an “automotive third world," Volkswagen claims

[Wretched]

So far the list of car makers moving away from ICE powered engines by or not long after 2030

• Audi
• Aston Martin (track only ICE)
• Volvo
• Jaguar
• Bentley

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Wretched

So far the list of car makers moving away from ICE powered engines by or not long after 2030

• Audi
• Aston Martin (track only ICE)
• Volvo
• Jaguar
• Bentley

Jeeze there are some big sellers on that list !!

I thought we were talking about everyday cars for the average working man

Dr Terry

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Jeeze there are some big sellers on that list !!

I thought we were talking about everyday cars for the average working man

Dr Terry

While I appreciate your sarcasm - looking past the trees to see the forest, you might note that it is only a trickle now but with almost certainly the VW group migrating out shortly (their ID range is growing significantly) and with Audi not developing any new engines which VW leverage incentive to develop anything new is not there, it is the start of mainstream EVs. Bearing in mind VW Group isn't exactly flooded with money. They've hedged their bet on EV after they decided trying to be EURO7 compliant isn't viable.

Another every day car maker, Ford has a huge investment in EV and have already announced the majority of their European fleet will be EV only in the next 10 years. Again there will be little incentive to build bespoke engines when there is little market for it.
In addition Toyota are now setting sights on US and Euro market for EVs with their first SUV coming early part of 2020's.

If car makers continue to move away from ICE and Petroleum companies shift their focus over to selling electricity there is little incentive to invest in any new ICE only engines. Those markets that will allow them will be few and far between and really up to the car makers if they want to invest in that. There will be low volume car makers that may do it but then in your own words "there are some big sellers on that list "

Car makers won't care what Australia does, such a ****y little market not worth the hassle. Take it or leave it.

[mick taylor]

Charliewool the thing is I have not ascertained from anyone that the higher standards diesel is proven to be worth it going by accounts from all the people that I know, even the ones who use a hell of a lot of fuel a week.
But as if it were up to me who had a Diesel doing short drives I would use the higher quality diesel for sure, now if doing distance drives I may not. So if you understand Diesel engines you may understand where I am coming from on that point.

What Europe Diesel is, well that's not our diesel fuel, now is it. that's just one fact.

Not to mention Crude Oil that comes out of the ground is not the same thing buster as there is 4 basic types.

And Bill Hunt thought that by increasing his petrol octane he would increase his cars performance being a typical wood duck. I knew that he was not going to make more power and if anything loose power.

Next time you try to make a comment try not to use one simplistic line that goes no where in such ignorance.

Basically I am asking for others who may run a fleet or such with new trucks or diesel 4x4 etc have they ran two say of the same type in only on the high end diesel and the other on the norm doing the same roots, now one may find that the distance between when the engine goes into cleaning the cat mode is more than the other, I would believe that such should be the case and that such would be some proof in regards to such a thing, as I have a enthusiasm in all things as in regards all such things as I am one who would experiment with such things taking note.

[Charliewool]

As such... I am still none the wiser Mick ��

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

As such... I am still none the wiser Mick ��

Me to..........although i do have a headache now!

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm concerned about how good a new $25K EV is going to be in the near future.

Euro 7 might force the hand of car manufacturers but battery chemistry isn't there yet, are we going to end up with commuter spec EVs with a 150km range in that sub $30K bracket or are we just going to see the entry point to 4 wheel transport jump to $50K+?

ICE is cheap and plentiful

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm concerned about how good a new $25K EV is going to be in the near future.

Euro 7 might force the hand of car manufacturers but battery chemistry isn't there yet, are we going to end up with commuter spec EVs with a 150km range in that sub $30K bracket or are we just going to see the entry point to 4 wheel transport jump to $50K+?

ICE is cheap and plentiful

Further concern needs to be taken into account around the unhinged settled science brigade. In a similar way to paper - plastic shopping bags in the 1980s, and the push for Europe to adopt diesel light vehicles in the 1990s. They’ll change the settle science on EVs in 2-3 decades after mass uptake once they realise we’re still raping the earths resources for battery and motor manufacturing. Once they realise global corporates are profiting off the raping of the land. Once they realise most of the land used for the extraction of these resources are on indigenous land the world over.
Once they realise fossil fueled fixed and heavy plant is required to extract, process and transport these resources.
Ironic the ones pushing EVs the most don’t realise the whole process is antithetical to their ideology.

That is only if a mineral shortage, price hikes and market volatility doesn’t steer makers and consumers away from them before hand.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm concerned about how good a new $25K EV is going to be in the near future.

Euro 7 might force the hand of car manufacturers but battery chemistry isn't there yet, are we going to end up with commuter spec EVs with a 150km range in that sub $30K bracket or are we just going to see the entry point to 4 wheel transport jump to $50K+?

ICE is cheap and plentiful

It will be lower range for sure, no getting around it. It costs a lot for all those energizer aa batteries

[whynot]

Interesting (and rather detailed) background research done by IHS for Infrastructure Australia. Reviews the history of various fuel standards and why sulphur content interferes with emission equipment.

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/ve...eport_2016.pdf

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Have you never driven the Great Ocean Road?

Franco, still thinks Craigieburn is in the country.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

as I have a enthusiasm in all things as in regards all such things as I am one who would experiment with such things taking note.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

As such... I am still none the wiser Mick ��

Ask a pacific question as to what you are pondering on and I may be able to help you with such.

I know that some people are thick on some subjects or just ignorant on a concept. when one talks about ADR27A law they just do not get the subject that was at hand. I to was pondering what the hell was the point of ADR27A myself back in 1976, because engines had to be made bigger to comply and that they used more fuel, so I thought that the laws were joke. but then when I worked out from where they were truly coming from I understood what it was that they were trying to accomplish.

VW is correct as to the topic of Australia nowadays that we are environmentally backward with our petrol and diesel, Australia is a disgrace on this subject if you are truly bother to look into it all.

Australia's media was so quick to make out so much hysteria that VW was trying to be killing us all, when such a VW was still surpassing our own ADR laws in fact.

I myself am fine with both our Diesels fuels, only that I am not bagging the higher tec diesel as nonsense. and as to our petrol 91 octane has to go. it was set to go back in 2008 but PM Gillard put a stop to it.

As for SEQ 91 octane fuel for many years from Caltex does smell to me like it's high in sulphur and BP Shell does not.

Not to mention that unleaded is not environmentally worthy to be used in big city's and should be banned for sale in such city's bar for fuel for boats.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by hayseed

image

Yes I am not ignorant or do not have a disregard in such things, as I am open to look into such things that come to hand.

Read what whynot put forward and you may understand where I am coming from on the subject. but if it's all to hard for you don't bother.

We have jerks on here that ask that they want to remove the EGR off their diesel 4x4 and such. well this is 2021 and people should be taking the pollution laws seriously. not to mention if you use the up graded diesel fuel you may be less likely to have problems with your EGR causing a problem, not to mention that if you block the EGR off you can blow a hole in your pistons, I have seen many because the disregard for tune and maintenance of the EGR.
Diesels doing short cold runs are a disaster in small cars and you don't see people in Europe using such as the lower grade diesel do you.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Franco, still thinks Craigieburn is in the country.

If your landline number starts with a 4 or a 5 then it's regional as far as I'm concerned

I've been to Craigieburn exactly once,it's an outer suburb of Melbourne, decent Indian and Lebo food available.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Further concern needs to be taken into account around the unhinged settled science brigade. In a similar way to paper - plastic shopping bags in the 1980s, and the push for Europe to adopt diesel light vehicles in the 1990s. They’ll change the settle science on EVs in 2-3 decades after mass uptake once they realise we’re still raping the earths resources for battery and motor manufacturing. Once they realise global corporates are profiting off the raping of the land. Once they realise most of the land used for the extraction of these resources are on indigenous land the world over.
Once they realise fossil fueled fixed and heavy plant is required to extract, process and transport these resources.
Ironic the ones pushing EVs the most don’t realise the whole process is antithetical to their ideology.

That is only if a mineral shortage, price hikes and market volatility doesn’t steer makers and consumers away from them before hand.

Agree completely, I got called a '***** who hates the environment' by an inner Melbourne cafe owner, because I refused to bring a plastic keep cup for my coffee.

They tried to incentivise me on price, which of course I just kept paying full tote odds and going the disposable cup, but if it was such a big deal then don't offer disposable coffee cups?

It's the same as our EV warriors.

I can't help myself taking the ****, I knew I'd get a reaction out of the blue hair brigade

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Ask a pacific question as to what you are pondering on and I may be able to help you with such.


VW is correct as to the topic of Australia nowadays that we are environmentally backward with our petrol and diesel, Australia is a disgrace on this subject if you are truly bother to look into it all.

Australia's media was so quick to make out so much hysteria that VW was trying to be killing us all, when such a VW was still surpassing our own ADR laws in fact.

How big is the pacific ocean?


Volkswagen are renaming their brand Voltswagen in the US.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/938824/...-in-australia/

Everyone initially thought this was an early april fools joke.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Agree completely, I got called a '***** who hates the environment' by an inner Melbourne cafe owner, because I refused to bring a plastic keep cup for my coffee.

They tried to incentivise me on price, which of course I just kept paying full tote odds and going the disposable cup, but if it was such a big deal then don't offer disposable coffee cups?

It's the same as our EV warriors.

I can't help myself taking the ****, I knew I'd get a reaction out of the blue hair brigade

The only standards they have is double standards.
Get hold of a MAGA hat and see what they do when you wear it in there.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If your landline number starts with a 4 or a 5 then it's regional as far as I'm concerned
.

Whats a landline ?

Sounds like just another sole-less commuter town where everyone is to cheap to buy in the burbs but wants all the city amenities and big wages.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Whats a landline ?

Sounds like just another sole-less commuter town where everyone is to cheap to buy in the burbs but wants all the city amenities and big wages.

Imagine driving an hour or so to work or spending and hour on the train, because you live regional

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

Ask a pacific question as to what you are pondering on and I may be able to help you with such.

I know that some people are thick on some subjects or just ignorant on a concept. when one talks about ADR27A law they just do not get the subject that was at hand. I to was pondering what the hell was the point of ADR27A myself back in 1976, because engines had to be made bigger to comply and that they used more fuel, so I thought that the laws were joke. but then when I worked out from where they were truly coming from I understood what it was that they were trying to accomplish.

VW is correct as to the topic of Australia nowadays that we are environmentally backward with our petrol and diesel, Australia is a disgrace on this subject if you are truly bother to look into it all.

Australia's media was so quick to make out so much hysteria that VW was trying to be killing us all, when such a VW was still surpassing our own ADR laws in fact.

I myself am fine with both our Diesels fuels, only that I am not bagging the higher tec diesel as nonsense. and as to our petrol 91 octane has to go. it was set to go back in 2008 but PM Gillard put a stop to it.

As for SEQ 91 octane fuel for many years from Caltex does smell to me like it's high in sulphur and BP Shell does not.

Not to mention that unleaded is not environmentally worthy to be used in big city's and should be banned for sale in such city's bar for fuel for boats.

I was lead to believe the 2 different diesels available in UK/Europe were basicallyy the same however 1 is not taxed and the other is.
The red coloured diesel is used for farming, boats etc. and the regular is the automotive type used for private use in cars and trucks.
The only difference is the colour as its dyed.

From an english yachting magazine it explained it from marinas and certain industrial sites but if you were found to be using red dyed diesel in cars etc there were huge fines waiting for you.
Something about come rego testing time they could detect traces of the commercial diesel in a tank or fuel system.
It was a few years back I read this though so who know.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I was lead to believe the 2 different diesels available in UK/Europe were basicallyy the same however 1 is not taxed and the other is.
The red coloured diesel is used for farming, boats etc. and the regular is the automotive type used for private use in cars and trucks.
The only difference is the colour as its dyed.

From an english yachting magazine it explained it from marinas and certain industrial sites but if you were found to be using red dyed diesel in cars etc there were huge fines waiting for you.
Something about come rego testing time they could detect traces of the commercial diesel in a tank or fuel system.
It was a few years back I read this though so who know.

Yes I remember that was the case always of years gone by, I did not think that you pumped the red diesel out at the station but bought it in drums or was filled up pored from a tank into your own tin.

But when you turn up at a Service Station etc nowadays you can have 2 different types of diesel to pick from at the pumps.

I have not had to use diesel myself now for say 10 years, so I have not experimented.

I have experimented with petrol tho and I can even tell if one is using SEQ Caltex unleaded by the noise it makes and the smell of 91 octane as well.
A mate came to take me for a run in his VF 375kw and was right up it and I could hear that distinctive note and said he was using Caltex 98 and he said yep. not to mention I was not truly impressed with the performance, but another time he came and boy did it fly and I said that's not Caltex you are using and he said it was BP or it may of been Shell, I can not remember now off hand.

But I have always tuned my carburettor bikes so I know about jetting for tuning for different fuels and such as I have spent 100's of hours all up over all the years fine tuning my bikes. you can develop an ear and feel for such things that most can not detect at all.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Whats a landline ?

Sounds like just another sole-less commuter town where everyone is to cheap to buy in the burbs but wants all the city amenities and big wages.

It's part of Hume City Council

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...b91638da95e206

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Agree completely, I got called a '***** who hates the environment' by an inner Melbourne cafe owner, because I refused to bring a plastic keep cup for my coffee.

They tried to incentivise me on price, which of course I just kept paying full tote odds and going the disposable cup, but if it was such a big deal then don't offer disposable coffee cups?

It's the same as our EV warriors.

I can't help myself taking the ****, I knew I'd get a reaction out of the blue hair brigade

Vote 1 Franco Cozzo movement

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Volkswagen are renaming their brand Voltswagen in the US.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/938824/...-in-australia/

Everyone initially thought this was an early april fools joke.

It was

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-...ange/100040450

[MITCHAY]

I accept that EV is the future. It's not a question of if but when. It's going to happen Australia, has **** all influence.

I often have this conversation with a bloke at work when he says a Telsa will kill me. I already know that

But while it is an A to B choice for most, I actually enjoy driving to work though it is a pain in the **** at times.

I do 60+kms round trip a day most of which is highway. I enjoy the sound and smell of just driving to work.

Sometimes I get through the crowd onto the highway and just plant it, feeling alive! I won't have have an EV unless it is just a daily.

I will enjoy it while I can because EVs are appliances really IMO at least the cheap ones. Zero experience.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Agree completely, I got called a '***** who hates the environment' by an inner Melbourne cafe owner, because I refused to bring a plastic keep cup for my coffee.

They tried to incentivise me on price, which of course I just kept paying full tote odds and going the disposable cup, but if it was such a big deal then don't offer disposable coffee cups?

It's the same as our EV warriors.

I can't help myself taking the ****, I knew I'd get a reaction out of the blue hair brigade

Damo you must have been ecstatic when COVID came along and destroyed keep cups.
I was one of the keep cup brigade loved that 50cent discount!

Must be why I drive a 70KW Skoda that puts out minimal tailpipe emissions.
I do find myself thinking about a 6MT in a Focus ST 2.3. The little engine in the Skoda provides no engine braking when you change down through the 5 speed manual. I must stop thinking about environmentally unsuitable Focus ST,s.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by kevino

. I must stop thinking about environmentally unsuitable Focus ST,s.

Wot

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Damo you must have been ecstatic when COVID came along and destroyed keep cups.
I was one of the keep cup brigade loved that 50cent discount!

Must be why I drive a 70KW Skoda that puts out minimal tailpipe emissions.
I do find myself thinking about a 6MT in a Focus ST 2.3. The little engine in the Skoda provides no engine braking when you change down through the 5 speed manual. I must stop thinking about environmentally unsuitable Focus ST,s.

The saving of the 50 cents isn't worth the effort of another cup you have to wash, dry and carry with you in the car/at the office, its more convenient to pay the extra 50 cents and throw the cup away after you're done

The irony in buying a cheap Chinese made oil based product (plastic) at huge markup because of 'green tax' that deteriorates after maybe 20 uses, thats shipped to Australia on a big *** ship burning fuel oil because its 'better for the environment' than a paper cup with a small plastic lid isn't lost on me

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The saving of the 50 cents isn't worth the effort of another cup you have to wash, dry and carry with you in the car/at the office, its more convenient to pay the extra 50 cents and throw the cup away after you're done

The irony in buying a cheap Chinese made oil based product (plastic) at huge markup because of 'green tax' that deteriorates after maybe 20 uses, thats shipped to Australia on a big *** ship burning fuel oil because its 'better for the environment' than a paper cup with a small plastic lid isn't lost on me

The keep cup will do hundreds of uses although currently retired due to Covid.
Maybe we should discuss soot burning diesel cars. Modified TDCI Focuses etc.