Commodore thrashes Falcon in October sales

[Fordoldie]

Thats true, I think most most private sales (and sales in general) have been upper level models in NZ. However I think I would re-quote if I was you as I hear the residual values have changed for the better this month (unless you are talking this month already)
Our company has ordered several Omega but have to wait until January so somebody must be buying them

[GXL078]

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

We must thank holden for everything ford has because because otherwise we still would be caby fed with steel wheels if holden didnt force ford to move forward. Hopefuly fledging sales will force ford to try and not just match holden but better them not by a bit but by a lot in every department. Doubt i'll ever see that day though. So true with the leadership and laughing stock coments.

How exaclty did Holden get Ford to move forward? Was it by releasing the original VB COmmodore with 80% local content while the German model (Opel Senator) had I.R.S, O.H.C, 4W Disks and a 4 speed auto, in 1978! Or was it the VL Commodore with a Nissan engine and rear drum brakes? Or back to an ALL PUSHROD fleet with the release of the VN? Please explain?

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by Boss 290

whats the camery got? fuel eco and a cheap price?

Better build quality, reliability and cheaper to run

[05MkIIFutura]

Those Holden numbers are inflated, alot will be pre-release orders to the fleets. There is absolutely no point in reading anything into this and the newspaper journo should have know better than make those claims - just last month there were articles about the worst new-release month since the VT.

Just wait till it all settles down.

[Wally]

It's a bit like footy and bums on seats. There might be a lot of barracking for Ford, but if the fans don't have the money or inclination to buy, the takings will be scant. Holden may or may not be better than Ford, but they have managed to target middle Australia pretty well.

Ford need to pull their finger out and produce a car that looks good. The AU accelerated the slide for Ford because the public didn't like the looks of it, but they have naively perservered with it instead of dumping it. I guess the parent being on the brink of chapter 11 for some time has caused the problem.

[janek]

People seem to fail to realise that its not all new tech in the VE. they boast irs. wow. my freaken 1972 peugeot had IRS.

all of the features in the VE my 'mont ghia already has, plus i have way more room

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Those Holden numbers are inflated, alot will be pre-release orders to the fleets. There is absolutely no point in reading anything into this and the newspaper journo should have know better than make those claims - just last month there were articles about the worst new-release month since the VT.

Just wait till it all settles down.

Just this month the media now quote second record month in a row so not sure where you got that one from?
You are right one would suggest a number of pre-ordered rentals being in those numbers however.

"NEWSFLASH"
How about the news that you cant have a VE Taxi? At least not until later in the year/New year. Apparently they forgot to tell everyone that you cannot fit a Taxi meter to them as they havent designed a software compatible. Someone I know just picked up his new VE SV6 in Auckland to be told by the fitter they couldnt fit his car out! Bet they are not telling too many people that one....

[ClevlndStemer]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Those Holden numbers are inflated, alot will be pre-release orders to the fleets. There is absolutely no point in reading anything into this and the newspaper journo should have know better than make those claims - just last month there were articles about the worst new-release month since the VT.

Just wait till it all settles down.

Inflated how? Are Ford's numbers inflated? Cause Ford would certainly be wanting some Fleet contracts. The numbers quoted are of cars that have been registered in the last month, all makers get the numbers the same way, there is no conspiracy. The VE is a good car and can't doubt that, I have seen so many of them in Melbourne over the last month. Many people have waited for this car for a long time. I don't expect BF2 to do anything spectacular with Aurion here now.

[Polyal]

What did everyone expect exactly? New car, sqwillions spent; it had to happen or Holden would be packing their dacks!

The next month or two will be bad for Ford, after that though there is no excuse and they either need to work some kind of magic with there marketing, or they have to beat holden on cost; simple as that really.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by Polyal

What did everyone expect exactly? New car, sqwillions spent; it had to happen or Holden would be packing their dacks!
The next month or two will be bad for Ford, after that though there is no excuse and they either need to work some kind of magic with there marketing, or they have to beat holden on cost; simple as that really.

They have been using "cost" for too long and it has "cost" them dearly. They breathed a huge sigh of relief when Holden reeled in their fleet discounts. BFII discounts will be reeled in also - if they are forced to use price again before run-out it will completely destroy itself in terms of residual values

[Smoke Pursuit]

So many people talk about marketing when at the end of the day the private buyer is nothing when it comes to the bigger picture.

It all comes down to fleet buyers and the following criteria.

1. Price
2. Fuel Economy and Service Costs
3. Resale Value.
4. Motor vehicle image - for those fleet buyers who use their cars as a marketing tool.

At the end of the day the Falcon does well in all 4 counts and will still hold a large percentage of the fleet market, asside from those fleet buyers who give their staff the choice, whether they be novated lease or whatever.

Holdens new pricing looks good on paper but theres no room to bargain at the moment, once you get one on the road they are very expensive compared to the Falcons bonus pricing.

[Polyal]

All the price reductions in the world will not stop the "mine is newer than yours" mentality.

[eed-250]

I know why people buy commodores over falcons. If anyone saw the great debate holden vs ford they would of witnessed holden winning 66 percent or something of the votes from the 'general public'. Simply because the holden debate included, "Australians own car", "Kangaroos, meat pies and holden cars". Holden have always been good at pushing the fact that HOLDEN=AUSTRALIA and FORD=AMERICAN ****. Ford definately need to get there **** into gear with advertising and start telling the public that we have more Aussie parts, aussie design etc then holden ever has/will.. We don't need to rebadge an omega to make cars. WAKE UP FORD, YOU ARE ****ING US OFF!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by eed-250

I know why people buy commodores over falcons. If anyone saw the great debate holden vs ford they would of witnessed holden winning 66 percent or something of the votes from the 'general public'. Simply because the holden debate included, "Australians own car", "Kangaroos, meat pies and holden cars". Holden have always been good at pushing the fact that HOLDEN=AUSTRALIA and FORD=AMERICAN ****. Ford definately need to get there **** into gear with advertising and start telling the public that we have more Aussie parts, aussie design etc then holden ever has/will.. We don't need to rebadge an omega to make cars. WAKE UP FORD, YOU ARE ****ING US OFF!

The guys and gals at General Motors Holden do truly believe they are dinky-di Australian. On their website they have a historical timeline in which they list all Holden's Australian 'firsts' like seatbelts, radial tyres etc. Only trouble some of these things actually appeared first on cars made in Australia by BMC Australia and Ford. I emailed them about this and got a reply from a PR lady who said that BMC was a British company and Ford was an American company so they didn't count. (Ignoring the fact that their Australian operations were companies registered in Australia.) I replied that General Motors Holden could be considered an American company by the same logic. I didn't get a response to that. They are obviously in some state of Orwellian double-think down there at Holden HQ.
The other Orwellian aspect that follows (or is it Goebbels) is that if you repeat a lie often enough everybody believes it. Come to think of it wasn't the Commodore a German Opel Omega until recently?

[ltd]

Ford need to seriously come up with some catch phrases like Holden has done successfully, then get it out there. They could do the Holden means a great deal to Korea thing but to take a swipe at the opposition is the first no no in the sales race. Holden having a go at ford in their ad with a quote from Paul Bend Gover stating the competition looks dated is a cheap tactic, and makes people resent Holden for that desperate measure alone. It's akin to that blimp and the saturation marketing of Holden being an over-inflated, fat advertiser full of hot air. People resent that blimp for good reason; we don't like having our view obscured by some ugly mobile billboard.

Mitsubishi have a good catchphrase in "better built, better backed" alluding to their 5 year warranty.
Toyota have that "oh what a feeling" that alludes to being an accountant with latent s&m tendancies.
Holden have that "australia's own car" - it works for them.
Ford have "????????????????????????" - nothing.
May seem gimicky but at the end of the day something needs to be memorable about ford. Presently, they are selling cars on the merits of the vehicle itself which is pretty impressive, but they need to do more to promote the following.

* Highest percentage of Australian parts
* Lowest cost of ownership compared to the competitors (NRMA figures here)
* Free roadside assistance to new vehicles
* Superior dynamics of the auto's
* Highest torque output and high power output
* Links to Jaguar for the control blade IRS
* FPV cars like F6 and what is possible with ford engines
* Full size spare
* Lower cost replacement tyres compared to Holden
* Self diagnostics which no competitor has resulting in lower servicing costs
* Promote the production techniques for perceived quality
* Superior fuel economy to the VE and camry - dispel the myth of large = guzzler.

These are just some ideas.
How about we help ford by coming up with a catch phrase?
"Ford, the first car maker"
"Ford, a thoroughbred like no other" - link to the Jaguar, aston, range rover, volvo heritage.
"Ford, the history, the pride and the passion"
"Safe like a volvo, handles like a jaguar, performance like an aston martin, priced only like a ford"

Just some ideas that would really push the brands excellent history, links to so many marquees, promoting that the control blade did actually come off an S type jag. Atleast this may get the public thinking before they buy a VE or Camry.

[FPVTurboTaxi]

guys im a for fan thru and thru , im in the position where im due for a new lease car so i thought for a laugh id take the new gts 307 for a run .. now this is a ford fan saying this . its a mile ahead of anything ford has at the moment and im discusted , will i buy one , NO. but jeez they have a good head start with this new model

[new2ford]

You need to be a consultant to Ford ltd. Or somebody just needs to deliver some cups of black coffee down to Broadmeadows to wake them up.

[ltd]

Thanks new2ford.

I really believe in the brand and have experienced a number of other types, Ford just do it better. It always saddens me to see something that is a great Australian suffer at the hands of almost defamation from a vexatious player like Holden. Whilst I'll give them kudos for their latest effort, I still believe Falcon and the LWB cars can be number 1. You have to develop the desire through your marketing, and ford have to take advantage of the product life cycle to screw holden to the wall allowing a discernable difference to be made between the two brands. By this I mean with relatively cheap inclusions as opposed to a price war.
Furthermore, in terms of product they are about even at the moment however Ford has the several real advantages such as Australian components mix opposed to a country where rightly or wrongly the market perception is that of a lesser quality. I would love to see fords sales improve, so much so that today I actually was at ford buying a fairmont on behalf of one of my sisters. Actually, I just thought of another catch phrase for ford. "Ford, please, no bogans". Just kidding.

One of our engine suppliers is a company called Pratt & Whitney. Their catch phrase is simply "Pratt & Whitney dependable engines". To my mind that is really effective and gets the point across with no ambiguity. This is what ford need to do and promote.

[Auslandau]

Is there any marketing for the BF11? Force 6? FPV? Only add I have seen for some time is the new Ghia (boring) add. I havnt seen one yet and if it wasnt for the forums I wouldnt even know about the updated list!



| [/url] |

[GXL078]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The guys and gals at General Motors Holden do truly believe they are dinky-di Australian. On their website they have a historical timeline in which they list all Holden's Australian 'firsts' like seatbelts, radial tyres etc. Only trouble some of these things actually appeared first on cars made in Australia by BMC Australia and Ford. I emailed them about this and got a reply from a PR lady who said that BMC was a British company and Ford was an American company so they didn't count. (Ignoring the fact that their Australian operations were companies registered in Australia.) I replied that General Motors Holden could be considered an American company by the same logic. I didn't get a response to that. They are obviously in some state of Orwellian double-think down there at Holden HQ.
The other Orwellian aspect that follows (or is it Goebbels) is that if you repeat a lie often enough everybody believes it. Come to think of it wasn't the Commodore a German Opel Omega until recently?

What about Ford Australias firsts?
4 wheel disk brakes, 1973 LTD and Landau and XB GT.
Inertia real rear seatbelts, not sure which model.
Lap sash centre rear belt and standard driver's airbag on all models
(1994 EF).
Im sure there are others.
Seeing as the Camry is now 4 cylinder only the Aurion is more of a comparison car to the Falcon.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Is there any marketing for the BF11? Force 6? FPV? Only add I have seen for some time is the new Ghia (boring) add. I havnt seen one yet and if it wasnt for the forums I wouldnt even know about the updated list!

I think we would all be suprised how many people think ford are still selling BA's as there new car.

[TUF_302]

We are stuffed!!

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

Inflated how? Are Ford's numbers inflated? Cause Ford would certainly be wanting some Fleet contracts. The numbers quoted are of cars that have been registered in the last month, all makers get the numbers the same way, there is no conspiracy. The VE is a good car and can't doubt that, I have seen so many of them in Melbourne over the last month. Many people have waited for this car for a long time. I don't expect BF2 to do anything spectacular with Aurion here now.

The manufacturers can definately manipulate sales figures. The only reason the Falcon has ever out-sold the commodore in recent years (on ONE occasion) is because the deliberately timed the delivery of a few hundred vehicles to large fleets, and that is a fact straight from Ford's mouth.

When i say "inflated", i dont mean someone added some zero's when the motor registeries werent looking, i meant they will prob be higher than average because Holden will be delivering the pre-ordered fleet vehicles.

[Wally]

If there's any inflation of sales it would be heavy discounting of the runout model.

I ordered my VE Calais with 6.0 V8 (not all that common) and had it in 10 days, so I don't know about backlogs. I bought it because I wanted something that was fashionably shaped, had heaps of power without worrying about turbochargers and that handles far better than the six holdens and better than the falcons I test drove.

[05MkIIFutura]

Originally Posted by Wally

If there's any inflation of sales it would be heavy discounting of the runout model.

I ordered my VE Calais with 6.0 V8 (not all that common) and had it in 10 days, so I don't know about backlogs. I bought it because I wanted something that was fashionably shaped, had heaps of power without worrying about turbochargers and that handles far better than the six holdens and better than the falcons I test drove.

And wanted something that would be recalled for a near-fatal flaw within a month ing_sm

Edit: that was said in good nature without the intention for sh*(fight so dont get into a tiss

[Wally]

:

Well here's something you might be interested in.... it was my car that sparked the recall!

Yes twas my split fuel tank that attracted the fire brigade and a cast of thousands. I had filled the tank, paid the money and came out to find fuel all over the station paving.

I was most miffed when the GM spokewomen announced there had not been any consumers affected, so I put a call into her and so far she has ignored me. A few days after I got my car back another car rocked up at the dealer's with the same problem.

[Falcon Freak]

Car manufacturers can ignore telephone calls. But they cannot ignore letters. I suggest you put your comments in writing to Holden. If they ignore you then go to the general public via the media (magazines and newspapers). A picture of the leaking fuel will greatly assist you.

FF

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Wally

:

Well here's something you might be interested in.... it was my car that sparked the recall!

Yes twas my split fuel tank that attracted the fire brigade and a cast of thousands. I had filled the tank, paid the money and came out to find fuel all over the station paving.

You say that your "split fuel tank" sparked the recall when in fact the recall was for a small fuel hose in the engine bay.

Your story smells of BS to me.

[Boss 290]

Originally Posted by stevz

You say that your "split fuel tank" sparked the recall when in fact the recall was for a small fuel hose in the engine bay.

Your story smells of BS to me.

oh look...its stev with his holden savin again

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Boss 290

oh look...its stev with his holden savin again

Nothing to do with "Holden savin" at all. Look at the facts.