October MOTOR - W427 vs GTR vs Ford GT vs Lambo LP

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

No I think it's badged 6.3L because by German standards anything above 6.2L is rounded up to 6.3L ie. if an engine is 6201cc it is rated as "6.3L" while in Australia it would only be rated 6.3L if it was over 6249cc.

Actually Fev is right, the 6.3 designation comes from the legendary 300SEL sedan which had a 6332cc V8. And it was bloody fast, try 0-100kph in 6.5 secs....in 1967!!

The W427 doesn't belong in that comparo, it has 4 doors while the others are purpose built supercars, wakeup MOTOR!!

They should try this: AMG E63 vs BMW M5 vs W427....all have over 500 horses and similar kerb weights. Would be interesting to see how the 6.2 AMG performs against the larger LS7.

They could call it BIG CUBES vs HIGH-TECH or something.

[FPV8U]

I really don't see how or why they would compare the W427 to these cars...

Surely a Audi RS4, BMW M5 & AMG E63 would be more compatible..?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I really don't see how or why they would compare the W427 to these cars...

Surely a Audi RS4, BMW M5 & AMG E63 would be more compatible..?

That test has far more relevance......

[whales]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Totally Irrelevant.. Aftermarket modified vehicles have no place being compared to factory offerings.


Why does Nike offer so many different style running shoes? surely the "best" version is enough? why does coke offer so many flavours of Coke? surely the "original" one will do?
People have different value systems for determining choice... "best" or "most suitable" is a personal thing...
To say a C63 or GTR etc is "better value" than a W427 is only relevant if you place certain criteria ahead of others.....
Clearly there are a hell of allot of people with a value system that sets the W427 ahead of everything else..

Precisly..... Thats why people buy all types of cars not just Fords

[68XTFairmont]

Whether ya love em or hate em Holden have been doing what Ford have been too gutless to do for years and that is go out on a limb and try to fill the niche markets that nobody else is filling.

When the Monaro was Re-introduced Ford released some photos of a prototype Ford Coupe. Has anyone seen the production figures of these Ford Coupes??

There is a Huge Musclecar trend going on in Aus at the moment, Holden have once again stuck their neck out and produced something that nobody else locally has done. It may be an ugly as sin non performer but it is the image that a particular group of people are prepared to pay for.

Ford will never take the chance on building a Falcon based Coupe again and they will definately not consider releasing a Falcon based Big Block because they aren't into taking risks and that had been their downfall for the last 30 years.

I love my old fords and I really like the newer Gt's and Turbo 6's but there isn't the same love as there was for the real cars made years ago, Until Ford grow some balls and make something truly outstanding again I will continue to stay away from buying a new Ford.

Bash me all ya like lol

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That test has far more relevance......

Maybe thats next months.. have to sell more magazines to delusional Bogans about how good HSV's "Supercar" is

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by 68XTFairmont

Whether ya love em or hate em Holden have been doing what Ford have been too gutless to do for years and that is go out on a limb and try to fill the niche markets that nobody else is filling.

When the Monaro was Re-introduced Ford released some photos of a prototype Ford Coupe. Has anyone seen the production figures of these Ford Coupes??

There is a Huge Musclecar trend going on in Aus at the moment, Holden have once again stuck their neck out and produced something that nobody else locally has done. It may be an ugly as sin non performer but it is the image that a particular group of people are prepared to pay for.

Ford will never take the chance on building a Falcon based Coupe again and they will definately not consider releasing a Falcon based Big Block because they aren't into taking risks and that had been their downfall for the last 30 years.

I love my old fords and I really like the newer Gt's and Turbo 6's but there isn't the same love as there was for the real cars made years ago, Until Ford grow some balls and make something truly outstanding again I will continue to stay away from buying a new Ford.

Bash me all ya like lol

Not bashing you but your saying that until ford build a $160K car then you will buy a new Ford based on the fact they finally built a common man unaffordable car. Why would Ford build a car worth that money when they already struggle to sell GT's and GT-P's, Ford have a bigger spread of performance based vehicles than the darkside (XR6T, XR8, F6, GT, GT-P, Territory Turbo and F6-X, XR5 Focus and Mondeo, and before the FG they had Force 6 and Force 8 that didn't sell to well, all of these with a good spread of power outputs) and on that what would be motivation to do what the darkside did, the darkside had a readily available engine to do the W427. Ford would have to do a fair bit of R&D to develop an engine with 500hp or more and reliability to boot on the premise that they might sell these cars, in my book Ford are in enough financial trouble to gamble that sort of money that would probably see the end of Ford in Australia. I, like you and any Ford fan would love to see Ford build a Supercar to rival the W427 but I can also see why they won't, they've thrown up the idea of a blown GT called the HO but I can't see them taking a risk that could sink the company in Australia. If Ford did ever decide to build an aussie supercar I hope it's not based on the Falcon but be something totally different like the GT40 is.

[mcnews]

Ford struggle to sell them because they make no investment in a hero car. Compared to HSV's operation FPV really is a backayrd shed full of amateurs when it comes to brand building and marketing.

[DeansXR8]

to take a quote from the test..."here's a look inside the supercar world at what each continent does best"
Aus - W427
USA - Ford GT
Jap - GTR
Euro/Italy - Gallardo LP5604

Sure, comparing it to M5 & RS4's is apples comparing with apples, but then everyone would only say its just a commodore VS euro class. And i'm sure its likely or possibly already been done.

the fact is HSV have stepped up and tried, they may not be as good as euro's and probably isn't in supercar territory, but its the best Aussie attempt to date, even if it is only a commy.

just my 2c.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I really don't see how or why they would compare the W427 to these cars...

Surely a Audi RS4, BMW M5 & AMG E63 would be more compatible..?

Actually the RS6 would be better, the RS4 is in the same class as the M3, C63.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Ford struggle to sell them because they make no investment in a hero car. Compared to HSV's operation FPV really is a backayrd shed full of amateurs when it comes to brand building and marketing.

Pretty harsh.. Have you been to either HSV or FPV? i have and ive spent considerable time dealing with both. FPV don't have the resources that HSV have accumulated over the years but they have some very competent personal.
HSV didn't have a hero car till a month ago either... it wont help them sell other cars.. all they've done is cater to a niche..
You seen to have a rather large chip on your shoulder against FPV and Ford in general...

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Pretty harsh.. Have you been to either HSV or FPV? i have and ive spent considerable time dealing with both. FPV don't have the resources that HSV have accumulated over the years but they have some very competent personal.
HSV didn't have a hero car till a month ago either... it wont help them sell other cars.. all they've done is cater to a niche..
You seen to have a rather large chip on your shoulder against FPV and Ford in general...

It's hard to not blame the guy, I mean, for all the talk of them being limited to cobbling together an engine in 2002 (true at the time although there was a S/C 4.6L available), FPV, for the last 2 years have been in the enviable position of being able to buy and drop in the GT500 engine with a W427-equalling 373kw. This "HO" style car would have been easier to get over the line than the LS7 due to it already being dry-sump, and from an emissions standpoint. The FG would have been an ideal launch point as the TR6060 was enabled throughout the range and torque output would be a concern to the rear axle only (HSV have solved this)

4Vman, you are correct about HSV catering to the niche, but that is where you build your base for the future generations. Ford has already lost the 70's born generation, while the 90's generation has already started to turn.

We can only hope the Mod-motor is sent off with a bang, or we will all be driving either Turbo 6's...........

or Holdens?

P.S. How dare they even compare the W427 to the Ford GT?

The Ford GT is a supercar setup as a grand tourer,
The W427 is a grand tourer setup as a supercar.

Not even on the same page.

Daniel

[TC200six]

How many goes did they do with the Ford GT? Who ever drove the GT really fked up badly and should of started all over again. I've heard of other reviews where they got 0-60mph in 3 and a half seconds in the GT. It was obviously staged so Holden fans think their W427 is better than any Ford in the world.... Pfft!

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by Laser '81

How many goes did they do with the Ford GT? Who ever drove the GT really fked up badly and should of started all over again. I've heard of other reviews where they got 0-60mph in 3 and a half seconds in the GT. It was obviously staged so Holden fans think their W427 is better than any Ford in the world.... Pfft!

Wow.



Just wow.



You can't honestly think that? Yep, I'm sure that they did it deliberatly, just to give Holden owners that impression....Sure did.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Pretty harsh.. Have you been to either HSV or FPV? i have and ive spent considerable time dealing with both. FPV don't have the resources that HSV have accumulated over the years but they have some very competent personal.
HSV didn't have a hero car till a month ago either... it wont help them sell other cars.. all they've done is cater to a niche..
You seen to have a rather large chip on your shoulder against FPV and Ford in general...

Not at all. Just no real brand bias. All you have to do is look at the print press, watch the TV, look at the stands at any race meeting. It is clear HSV's marketing operation is far superior, as is Holden's marketing in general.

[Bronx]

Perhaps leadership is the real problem with Ford these days. Jac Nasser appeared: - V8s reappeared, agressive style in cars, race teams and sales lift. Geoff Polites - DOHC V8s, XR6T, ditto style, race teams and sales. If GP was still around the alloy block GT40 donk would have been in there years ago and the HO halo Car would have worked its magic.
I'd still be worried about the narrow tyre (in management somewhere who seems to have input on every Ford model), He'd insist on 245/25/20s and the thing wouldn't crack a 12.

[Gobes32]

Just my two cents worth.........

I really don't think Ford Australia would be allowed access to the GT motor due to the fact it would diminish the exclusivity Ford America enjoy with the motor. Just an opinion.

I feel there would be some very talented people in Ford OZ and FPV who would love nothing more than to build a 7 litre Falcon and bolt two turbos to it and blow everyone out of the water. But there is a reason why they don't do it. Most likely it's to do with money. Things are really tight at the moment. Another reason I feel would be that they have a corporate responsibility to produce safe, economical and green vehicles. Maybe one day some money might filter through and we will get our wish but until then we should be patient and applaud Holden for sticking their necks out and doing something special.

[flappist]

FFS people, for the past 3 years the quickest Australian made car was a FORD, the FPV F6. It took a $150,000 purpose designed limited edition vehicle, with a fully imported engine from a foreign race car for HSV to finally beat it after trying for 3 models (Z-LS2, E-LS2, E-LS3) and you are all STILL complaining.

wahhh, wahhh, it was not a V8 wahhh, wahhh. it was not a GT, wahhh, wahhh.....

Well HSV's leader is not a GTS, nor is it a Clubsport, it is a W427 and if any FPV is going to topple that the only thing I am fairly sure of is that it will NOT be a N/A V8.

[Ives]

Twin-turbo F6.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Ives

Twin-turbo F6.

Quad Turbo GT

[ST]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Maybe thats next months.. have to sell more magazines to delusional Bogans about how good HSV's "Supercar" is

Very true, has anybody else noticed that Motor and Wheels have been quick to drop the FG even though it has only just come out and the 200 page stories continue for the VE, a car that has been out for years!

The W427's biggest problem is its looks; it should have at least been a 2 door just to distinguish it from the rest of the VE's.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Pretty harsh.. Have you been to either HSV or FPV? i have and ive spent considerable time dealing with both. FPV don't have the resources that HSV have accumulated over the years but they have some very competent personal.
HSV didn't have a hero car till a month ago either... it wont help them sell other cars.. all they've done is cater to a niche..
You seen to have a rather large chip on your shoulder against FPV and Ford in general...

HSV have had a hero car every couple of years..

lets go back
walkinshaw
HSV GTS-R(sure nothin super special but it was big and exclusive back then)
HSV GTS (Gen3 300kw)
then they had the GTS coupe' (wow.. 2 doors!!)
couple of years ago they were going to have the 427 Monaro(mmmm)
and now they have this...

they've always had a huge hype and great marketing strategies.. ford/fpv dont even bother really..
i think those "competent" personnel need to pull their heads out and put some more effort in to making the brand more visible, lots more hype like "I CANT WAIT TIL THIS COMES OUT" or "WOW! THATS A BEAST!!" kinda thing..

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Fev

HSV have had a hero car every couple of years..

lets go back
walkinshaw
HSV GTS-R(sure nothin super special but it was big and exclusive back then)
HSV GTS (Gen3 300kw)
then they had the GTS coupe' (wow.. 2 doors!!)
couple of years ago they were going to have the 427 Monaro(mmmm)
and now they have this...

they've always had a huge hype and great marketing strategies.. ford/fpv dont even bother really..
i think those "competent" personnel need to pull their heads out and put some more effort in to making the brand more visible, lots more hype like "I CANT WAIT TIL THIS COMES OUT" or "WOW! THATS A BEAST!!" kinda thing..

Yep, i was right.

There's nothing all that special about that lot except the VL walkinshaw which is the only one of those lot that id call a hero car or special, and that's because of its homologation purpose.. maybe the VS GTS-R?
The 427 was still born...
Again.. HSV have only had a hero car (in recent memory) for a month or 2.....

Dont forget FPV have had the Cobra and R Spec F6....

[mcnews]

Cobra and R Spec.... Stripes and little much else. Can't see any hero car there.

[Fireblade]

Aren't you guys forgetting something...... XY GTHO Phase III, show me any production Holden worth as much as this car is now. Has Holden in its lifetime held the moniker of the world's fastest production 4 door?

Have you ever thought that maybe Dearborn (or Ford America) isn't interested with with Ford Australia like GMC is with GMH, so just doesn't throw any money their way.

Anyway what's so special about GMH sticking a Corvette 7 litre and some rice in a commodore, in all reality thats all it is.....

We're all fighting a losing war, the "Special" cars as we know them will cease to be produced in 3-5 years time as the government puts the squeeze on local manufacturers for greener, slower and safer cars. Young hoons are the downfall of performance cars in this country as they just keep killing themselves... oh and petrol prices...

[mcnews]

In all reality that is exactly what it is. And who wouldn't love to see an engine of that level inserted into an Aussie built Ford....

Hero cars are for brand building and the benefits to filter all the way down the line to various models. A hero car done well would even sell more Focus' in Australia despite it having no shared parts despite a badge...

[Fireblade]

If your not happy with it build a bigger one I say..... Why pay $168k for an engine and some rice, unless your compensating for something......lol

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by mcnews

In all reality that is exactly what it is. And who wouldn't love to see an engine of that level inserted into an Aussie built Ford....

Hero cars are for brand building and the benefits to filter all the way down the line to various models. A hero car done well would even sell more Focus' in Australia despite it having no shared parts despite a badge...

Gone are the days that a bikini model draped over a muscle car made the sales figures up at the end of the month.

What exactly is Toyota's hero car in Australia

[Fireblade]

The Camry, built so good would outlast any Holden that's why its their hero car and guess what they sell more cars than holden and ford put together....

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by GR8WITE

The Camry, built so good would outlast any Holden that's why its their hero car and guess what they sell more cars than holden and ford put together....

And thus proving a performance hero isn't going to help anyone