p plater driving V8s

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by STANI

Do you have a deathwish?

if you are going to quote at least quote in context. You trimed it down to make it sound like he said something different than what he actually did

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Pfft, I used to whinge and carry on about vehicle restrictions, then I bought my LV TDCI Focus (which is turboed and can be driven on Ps here in Victoria).

Then I realised I'm getting 1000km out of a tank, costs me nothign to go to work basically. Gets me from A to B safely and comfortably.

Thats when the whole OMG V8s thing went out the window, the quicker all us young blokes realise that cars are a waste of time/money and stop putting money into useless crap like performance mods, driving crap with big fuel hungry engines or some POS from the 60s/70/80s because it looks "cool" and put that towards saving up for a house the better for everyone, might even save your life one day too.

I reckon ban all P platers from driving RWD vehicles, that'd fix 90% of their problems.

[Scrawny]

The only thing that annoys me in this whole debate is when it's stated that P-platers have more accidents now than they did "when I was on my P's".

That would be because they are now on their P's at least three times longer than, say, 20 years ago

I reckon that if the figures showed the amount of accidents people had 20 years ago, 2-3 years after they got their blacks there wouldn't be quite as big a gap.

[Gobes32]

I think the consensus here is that the older members here on AFF would much rather the younger generation stay at home and be seen but not heard. Much like what their parents wanted, and their parents before them etc. Some people here need to lighten up.

As for my 2c worth. I find it ridiculous that my 18 year old brother cannot own his dream car, a HZ Prem with 253, but he is most welcome to buy a brand new FG XR6?????

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by STANI

Do you have a deathwish?

Yeah, you might try and stop but your non power assisted drum brakes and cross-ply tyres won't pull you up in time.

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I'm not sure it's quite that clear cut Damo, I disagree.

-Not everyone can afford new "safe and sensible" FWD cars.
-Banning P-platers from RWDs is ridiculous. Why not just take the next step and make all P-platers drive Smart cars?
-Cars from the 60s and 70s ARE cool!
-If people want to "waste" money on cars, it's their choice. They earned it, they can spend it as they like.

But they can afford the initial purchase of the car, insurance and fuel on something with a V8? I can't afford a new car but I can shell out $5000 on insurance, $200 a week on fuel and $10,000 for the car.

Suzuki Alto costs like $12,000 drive away.

The licensing system doesn't help either, the whole damn thing needs to be redone, from the instructor all the way to the examiner and protocol, I did the new "tough" license test in 2010, 50 minutes of turn left here, turn right there, turn right at the roundabout and enter the right lane, do a 3 point turn.

Maybe when peopel actually know how to drive safely and control their cars, and go through driver training, then can restrictions be removed, but that costs money and money is the answer to all questions, so dream on white boy/black girl. Don't like the system, use your "vote".

Hell if you are that way inclined, think outside the box, you can get a hell of a lot quicker cars that are still legal than your average V8 Falcon/Commodore.

[TUF-640]

Originally Posted by lockieoc

Haha, one of my mates bought a VY supercharged on his P's, serioulsy that motor even S/C is still a dog box and after a tune its only a tad quicker than my xr6, 100% not worth the risk, he also fitted a pod filter so its got noisey induction, so more reason for the cops to want to look under the bonnet.

Ha yeah its a really pointless thing to be doing if you ask me...you've got a slug of a motor to start with..chuck a supercharger on it..and well you still have the same slug you started with..
my mates is tuned MAFless so its just straight throttle body to pod filter...lovely little hot air intake mod there and the amount of induction 'sucking' noise it makes is actually frustrating...not to mention for the amount of 'work' that has been done to it i'd really be disappointed if i were him..doesnt make much more power than stock but according to the guy he got it off 35k had been spent on it between him and the previous owner...although its been painted two times n all that garbage so really is just a stock commodore :P

[gsmatt]

insurance and fuel on something with a V8? I can't afford a new car but I can shell out $5000 on insurance, $200 a week on fuel and $10,000 for the car.

Suzuki Alto costs like $12,000 drive away.

mate you can drive around in your suzuki, no one is saying you cant. but unlike you most people want to spend the money on insurance, fuel etc on there cars because its there passion, pride and joy. young enthusiast like myself want to spend the money on cars to enjoy them and show them off, theres only one way of putting it, its in the blood. thats why you wouldnt understand. i would take a v8 over a 6 any day even if the 6 was faster.

[lockieoc]

Originally Posted by loftie

2006 BMW M3 Coupe (6cyl naturally aspirated) 252kw would be P-plate legal
1987 Rover 3500 Hatch (8Cyl naturally aspirated) 108kw would be banned
1997 Suzuki Cappuccino (4cyl turbo) 47kw would be banned

In NSW
P1/P2 licence holders are also restricted from driving the following 6-cylinder vehicles:


BMW M and M3.

Honda NSX.

Nissan 350Z and 370Z (including private or 'grey' import variants eg. Infiniti G35, Infiniti G37, Skyline 350GT (V35), Skyline 370GT (V36)).

All Porsches from 1994 models onwards (except diesel).

Mercedes Benz SLK350.


Exempted vehicles:


All diesel powered vehicles.

Suzuki Cappuccino 2D Cabriolet Turbo 3 698cc (1/01/1992 - 1/12/1997).

Daihatsu Copen L880 2D Convertible Turbo 4 659cc (1/10/2003- ).

Smart vehicles (all models).

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...tions_dl1.html

[gsmatt]

my cousin had a skyline v35 and got d1ckd for it not long ago.

[lockieoc]

Originally Posted by gsmatt

my cousin had a skyline v35 and got d1ckd for it not long ago.

The new Commodore SV6 will soon be added as it breaches the kilowatt limit.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yeah, you might try and stop but your non power assisted drum brakes and cross-ply tyres won't pull you up in time.



But they can afford the initial purchase of the car, insurance and fuel on something with a V8? I can't afford a new car but I can shell out $5000 on insurance, $200 a week on fuel and $10,000 for the car.

Suzuki Alto costs like $12,000 drive away.

The licensing system doesn't help either, the whole damn thing needs to be redone, from the instructor all the way to the examiner and protocol, I did the new "tough" license test in 2010, 50 minutes of turn left here, turn right there, turn right at the roundabout and enter the right lane, do a 3 point turn.

Maybe when peopel actually know how to drive safely and control their cars, and go through driver training, then can restrictions be removed, but that costs money and money is the answer to all questions, so dream on white boy/black girl. Don't like the system, use your "vote".

Hell if you are that way inclined, think outside the box, you can get a hell of a lot quicker cars that are still legal than your average V8 Falcon/Commodore.

You're not seeing the bigger picture. Yes, old cars are sloppy, slow and a little bit dangerous. But people love them because they have character, style and nostalgia that no Suzuki Alto will ever have. You seriously mean to tell me you would prefer to be seen in a Suzuki Alto than a '75 Fairlane 500 or a HZ Prem?

Secondly, $12k is still way out of reach for most P-platers, definitely most independent P-platers at uni. Way out of reach for me when I have to cover uni and my living expenses, and I'm a frugal person.

I drive an 98 Futura 4.0 - it cost 5k, has twin front airbags, antilock, and it is still quicker and safer than many other cars on the road (and all other cars in that age/price bracket). Costs me $50 a week to run, bugger all to repair/service and $600 a year to insure. So I can't see what you mean about exorbitant insurance and running costs of 6 and 8 cyl cars.

I'm not saying I disagree with the current restrictions - I think they need to be power-to-weight ratio, but generally they're pretty good. But seriously, if someone wants to drive a big old RWD thirsty boat, then they should be able to. I find it kind of ironic that I'm trying to defend this point on a car enthusiast forum.

[gregcampbell123]

I'm a P plater and agree with the laws because yes there are those % of idiots out there that will do silly things and result in lives being taken etc,

How ever i don't agree with people saying all P platers are rubbish drivers, I'm an Auto electrician and have just about completed my trade, my work has given me a Toyota hilux diesel weighing in at 3.5 - 4 tonne i also own a xr6, i have not managed yet to have a accident in either vehicle.
i'm driving on rough country roads etc, and of course like everyone when there young have done some silly things (away from town though)

I just think people need to realise all P platers are not completely useless, if we were then when your driving you'd be constantly scanning the roads to look for p plates so you could avoid us, but most of you wont, and in my experience when i head down to brisbane, i see more older men driving hotted up xr6 Turbos and rice burners draging along the highway then i have P platers..

Just my two sense, but like i said there are that small percentage that ruin it for the rest of us

Cheers
Greg

[TUF-640]

Originally Posted by lockieoc

The new Commodore SV6 will soon be added as it breaches the kilowatt limit.

hahah really? the old man had one last week on hire when his ute was getting fixed...seemed pretty heavy and gutless to me..in saying that my au is faster!

[nipper575]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

You're not seeing the bigger picture. Yes, old cars are sloppy, slow and a little bit dangerous. But people love them because they have character, style and nostalgia that no Suzuki Alto will ever have.

Not to mention that you drive them in a manner that is well with in the car's capabilities, or at least good drivers do. If a classic car doesn't pull up as well as a modern vehicle, then you give yourself more space between yourself and the vehicle in front.

Before my BA, I never owned a car that was made after 1989, some of them considerably quick with appalling brakes. I often drive a 1966 classic with drums on each corner which is beyond abysmal (next thing to be upgraded) yet it hasn't been pranged. Don't drive with your head up your ****, it'll reduce your chances of crashing by a huge margin.

P platers should experience older vehicles that require proper concentration, the majority of safety features in modern cars are the answer to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place if people drive with greater care.

[HaydenEDC]

I'll add my 2 cents here, even though it'll probably be frowned upon.

YES, I'm a P-Plater, yes, I'm a car "enthusiast". I've also written off my first car and taken out a bank loan for my second. Now that we've got that out of the way feel free to disregard any shred of my opinion.

I don't drive like a ******, never had a speeding fine or accident apart from writing off my first car, never even hit a pole in a shopping car park, but I could go on all day trying to defend myself in saying "There was nothing I could do" or "It shouldn't have happened". Which in fact my stupidity on taking a corner 5 kmh faster than I should've caused it (God-Like P-Plater thoughts ;) ). I Haven't done defensive driving courses, but I was taught by my father who has been a driving instructor for the better part of his life span. So I'd like to think I'd have a better understanding of the cars movements than some P-Platers (When I don't drive like a **** that is). Now that I've taken out Comprehensive insurance for my Second car, I've been offered to take part in a free Defensive driving course, which will reduce my annual premium aswell. Fantastic idea AAMI

My first car was an ED 5 speed, which i did 3 engine swaps in on blocks. I did all the mechanical work myself. Always babied the car, Washed it 3/4 times a week, never did a burn out (yeah hard to beleive it isn't it?). Do you really think someone who is willing to put that much effort into a $700 car, is going to go out and thrash it?

In all honestly I find this thread really intimidating the the P-Plater minority on these forums, but in saying that the majority of which are most likely like-minded.

Sure, we all enjoy to go fast. I mean who doesn't? Obviouslly the majority of the older generation who see a "Boosted Falcon" club sticker on the rear window of my XR6 try to egg me on into a drag race down the local highway, speed past me whilst im sticking to the speed limit, swerve through traffic to overtake me or even tailgate the **** out of me. It really ****** me off that I slow down to 40 for a school zone or 40/60 for a roadworks section, and yet get honked by some **** behind me in a brand new car, What? I'm a P-Plater, You want me to speed? Yet, you'll see my car wrapped around a power pole on the 6-o'clock news and call me a **** head?

Just because there's a P-Plate on the window doesn't mean that we're cockheads, The majority of P-Plater's in Brand-Based car clubs are members who are here for the same reason that the rest of you guys are, To enjoy, take pride and get advice on a car in-which they love.

I know that since I've upgraded to an AU Xr6 5 Speed. Which is substantially quicker than my ED was, I no longer feel the urge to boot it everywhere I go. I was even offered to buy a 99' wrx for HALF of what i payed for the XR6. Food for thought isn't it?

Also to add in. For the first 18 months of my probationary license, I Drove my old man's NC 5ltr. Ontop of being one of the slowest car's I had ever driven, It is the best car I had ever driven comfort and reliability wise. I had a Vicroads work exemption for it, As I was working out in the yarra valley (chefing), so my normal working hours made it impossible for me to catch public transport. I was also an apprentice at the time, so I was going to box hill tafe. Which there was ample public transport to and from, they denied use for tafe, but accepted use for work travel only. To this day, the police still pull me up only to ask, "What is the exemption for kid?"

Flame away.

Cheers, Hayden.

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by TUF-640

hahah really? the old man had one last week on hire when his ute was getting fixed...seemed pretty heavy and gutless to me..in saying that my au is faster!

Your AU might be faster if it's been modified, but stock? Nope.

[DBourne]

It's amazing how people just can't grasp the simplest idea, it takes time to become good at something.

Some believe that they are an amazing driver after 12 months, sorry but that's just wrong.

It takes years to become a "good" driver and be able to drive in all situations..

If you think you're the ducks guts after having mummy / daddy sitting next to you for 12 months and a 20 minute road test, then good luck to us all.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by lockieoc

In NSW
P1/P2 licence holders are also restricted from driving the following 6-cylinder vehicles:


BMW M and M3.

Honda NSX.

Nissan 350Z and 370Z (including private or 'grey' import variants eg. Infiniti G35, Infiniti G37, Skyline 350GT (V35), Skyline 370GT (V36)).

All Porsches from 1994 models onwards (except diesel).

Mercedes Benz SLK350.


Exempted vehicles:


All diesel powered vehicles.

Suzuki Cappuccino 2D Cabriolet Turbo 3 698cc (1/01/1992 - 1/12/1997).

Daihatsu Copen L880 2D Convertible Turbo 4 659cc (1/10/2003- ).

Smart vehicles (all models).

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...tions_dl1.html

hahahah - well there goes my argument.... ;)

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

It's amazing how people just can't grasp the simplest idea, it takes time to become good at something.

Some believe that they are an amazing driver after 12 months, sorry but that's just wrong.

It takes years to become a "good" driver and be able to drive in all situations..

If you think you're the ducks guts after having mummy / daddy sitting next to you for 12 months and a 20 minute road test, then good luck to us all.

Yep. A bit like joining the RAAF, finally gaining your pilots license and wondering why you cant take Hornet for a spin

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by CODSASR

Wheres the harm in waiting the 2-3 years to be on your opens before getting one?

2-3 years is different when you're 18 to when you're 40. to me, 3 years go by in a flash. i can remember at school the days seemed to creep by more slowly. a year felt like a decade.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Yep. A bit like joining the RAAF, finally gaining your pilots license and wondering why you cant take Hornet for a spin

Or joining the RAAF, spending 20 years flying and wondering why no one outside the RAAF will let you anywhere near the controls of any of their aircraft......

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by dags41v

couldnt P platers just wait, I know it is totally against gen X principles, but I dont think it is too much too ask to wait a year or 2 to get into a V8.
+1 to au3xr6. New drivers dont know everything so should spend a couple of years learning the ropes before they are given a lethal weapon.

you mean gen Y gen X are too busy working their buns off supporting gen Y's lifestyle and "I want it yesterday" attitude

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by flappist

Or joining the RAAF, spending 20 years flying and wondering why no one outside the RAAF will let you anywhere near the controls of any of their aircraft......

Because passengers object to barrell rolls mid flight?

[Gobes32]

I hope I die before I get old and jaded............ lol

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Because passengers object to barrell rolls mid flight?

Yes especially when the pilot thinks they are wings level

"Aircraft is US, one of the comms is a bit noisy and there is a bug on the screen, go and get me another one".

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by chris11726

Power to weight is just too hard to enforce.

Not exactly.

All they need to do is get a list of all vehicles for sale in the last 5-10 years, get the manufacturers quoted kerb weight and power output and do the math, then compile the list of cars exceeding the power to weight ratio limit.

[buggo]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Not exactly.

All they need to do is get a list of all vehicles for sale in the last 5-10 years, get the manufacturers quoted kerb weight and power output and do the math, then compile the list of cars exceeding the power to weight ratio limit.

But then the police would have to memorize all of the legal/banned cars, so they can pull over those in the wrong, and visa versa.
How would ya be if your in an old XR8, and you've been pulled over because the policeman thinks it's banned while trawling through the big book of car power/weight ratio's. In the mean time a modified Twin turbo Supra with 900hp drives past without a care in the world.
Plus adding any mods or losing weight would through stock p/w out the window..

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

But then the police would have to memorize all of the legal/banned cars, so they can pull over those in the wrong, and visa versa.
How would ya be if your in an old XR8, and you've been pulled over because the policeman thinks it's banned while trawling through the big book of car power/weight ratio's. In the mean time a modified Twin turbo Supra with 900hp drives past without a care in the world.
Plus adding any mods or losing weight would through stock p/w out the window..

you think they are stupid? they would remember the majority of banned cars fairly quickly and P platers are not supposed to drive modified (performance) vehicles either or at least that is the case in NSW

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

You're not seeing the bigger picture. Yes, old cars are sloppy, slow and a little bit dangerous. But people love them because they have character, style and nostalgia that no Suzuki Alto will ever have. You seriously mean to tell me you would prefer to be seen in a Suzuki Alto than a '75 Fairlane 500 or a HZ Prem?

Secondly, $12k is still way out of reach for most P-platers, definitely most independent P-platers at uni. Way out of reach for me when I have to cover uni and my living expenses, and I'm a frugal person.

I drive an 98 Futura 4.0 - it cost 5k, has twin front airbags, antilock, and it is still quicker and safer than many other cars on the road (and all other cars in that age/price bracket). Costs me $50 a week to run, bugger all to repair/service and $600 a year to insure. So I can't see what you mean about exorbitant insurance and running costs of 6 and 8 cyl cars.

I'm not saying I disagree with the current restrictions - I think they need to be power-to-weight ratio, but generally they're pretty good. But seriously, if someone wants to drive a big old RWD thirsty boat, then they should be able to. I find it kind of ironic that I'm trying to defend this point on a car enthusiast forum.

My first car was my 2009 WS Fiesta I bought in.... 2009, I was 17 and I saved up through working since I was 15. Most P platers could afford $12K no problems if they stopped blowing 90% of their cash on illicit drugs, alcohol and smokes.

Would I rather be seen in a Suzuki Alto over a 70s car? Yes, if I was in that 70s car driving home from work you'd probably be reading about the deaths of two kids when I had my accident, and everyone would be up in arms P PLATE LAWS BLAH BLAH BLAH.

I used to like old cars, then I escaped serious injury thanks to a new safe car. I don't give a rats *** about looking cool, its better to be payed out on for driving a new small safe car, then to be looking cool before you died in the accident.

[Ashby2010]

As much as I loved my turbo when i was on my p-plates, I ended up wrapping it around a tree in the rain and was pretty lucky not to kill myself. As much as I hated the rule when I was a p-plater, I now look back and its definitely a way of reducing the road toll. But then again not all p-platers are hoons....

[chrisfpv]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

you think they are stupid? they would remember the majority of banned cars fairly quickly and P platers are not supposed to drive modified (performance) vehicles either or at least that is the case in NSW

Not to mention that you'd have to imagine most of these cars would be Holdens or Fords, which most people are pretty knowledgeable about, and you can bet your bottom dollar the police would be too.