The WORST Falcon model, and why.

[CoupeKing]

John Goss Special.

At least they should have worked that 302. The sound alone would pull more coin than that land whale Cobra.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

VN was a widened body on a VL structure.
Pop the bonnet and the engine bay is exactly the same, look underneath and it's VL.
Track is even the same between the two, which is why they look bloated.
Don't think the fixed it until VS.

My error, when you said running gear, I took it you meant the engine & gearbox etc. But yes, the floorpan is essentially VL but what's wrong with that ? It's had over 10 years of development, so that was a major advantage, as this was Ford's weakness.

The front track of the VN is the same as VL, but the rear is 2-inches wider. This was fixed with the updated front suspension for the VR in 1993.

The engine bay is not the same, the entire firewall structure & plenum chamber is totally different.

Dr Terry

[vbvbvb088]

What I find interesting is that I work with a 23yo who is into hotted up 80 90s Japanese cars. Every Friday he attends a met up of hundred of like minded people.... amongst this group VL Commodores are present and they all like them. I wonder why VL appeals to people who were not born when VL's made?

[hackney]

Originally Posted by vbvbvb088

What I find interesting is that I work with a 23yo who is into hotted up 80 90s Japanese cars. Every Friday he attends a met up of hundred of like minded people.... amongst this group VL Commodores are present and they all like them. I wonder why VL appeals to people who were not born when VL's made?

Perhaps the Nissan engine.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

This.
The EA was just an outright abomination, and I don't think FoA ever really recovered.

The basic design for the EA26 was signed off in the early eighties. This was to be the first 100% Australian Falcon, new from the ground up.
It took them 6 years to bring it into production, and it was still half-baked.

The new OHC engine and 4spd were supposed to debut in the XG, in time for ULP in 1986. Instead we got the XF2, with bastardised version of the 4.1. We got the new 5sp, but the 4sp didn't debut until the EA2, and still had overheating problems.

The 3.9 was truly a lamentable POS, and they spent the next several years fixing it. When we finally got the 4.0L in the EB2, it was so much better, but they didn't really get it right until the EL.

Then you have the saggy front-end that needed shimming right out of the factory. With every new facelift they promised it had been fixed, but it wasn't really until the AU2.

And don't get me started on the interiors. Flagship material they were not.

Then of course you have the complete absence of a performance model. Ford had developed a factory turbo, but the then CEO nixed it. I remember reading the interview in which he said that turboes only appealed to cowboys and they weren't the kind of buyer Ford wanted.

Oh, and ute buyers? Well fekk you. I guess they were "cowboys" too.

The only redeeming thing was that its competition, the VN, was unbelievably worse.

In the 80's FoA had the opportunity to destroy Holden. Remember there were actually contingency plans back then to scrap the Commode completely and sell Chevies. If the EA had been the car it should have been, it would have decimated or maybe even pre-empted the VN.

Project Capricorn was the problem. The stretched Mazda 626 FWD they were going to turn into a Falcon. They wasted 2 years on the stupid thing before it dawned on them that it was never going to work. It was just too long and skinny, and they couldn't widen it enough to make it not look like a sausage.

Then they had to rush EA to market 6 months before it was ready, because they wasted so much time on the bloody thing.

I wonder how things would have gone if project capricorn was never started, and they went to work on EA26 2 years earlier.

Probably could have killed Holden right there and then.


Imagine how much this piece of crap would have bombed if it ever saw the light of day as a Falcon.

[Sprintey]

And also should be mentioned that despite Capricorn, the stylists with the EA achieved a good looking car - it beat everything (including Euros) in styling clinics Ford ran in its development (people in the clinics thought it was German). Its proportions were spot on.


A good write up of it here:

https://www.shannons.com.au/club/new...ven-better-eb/

Bonus story: once parked outside Gorells buying a part, before driving away I noticed a rolled scroll of paper in the gutter. Picked it up and looked at it - it was an EA26 diagram, part of the plans for the rear quarter/roof. So handed it back to Ford. No doubt it's preserved now on display at Dearborn.

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

I have a low k one in my collection and quite enjoy driving it when time permits. Still turns heads, never gives me an ounce of problems, and has one of the best exhaust notes in the business..
Just a great old Grand Tourer...

Cant pick a worst Falcon though ive owned a few,guess ive been lucky as the only time ive ever come to a stop was when the gearbox in my long ago owned XYGS decided enough was enough and quit even then to be fair it had every right to BAs am on my 3rd, everyone of em has been good to me and a wheel bearing in the XR8 ute is about all ive shelled out for,theres a couple of things need seeing to on the GT-P ie hooldlining will need doing soon and the annoying mixer shaft,for me anyway there without doubt one of the best looking Falcons ever made,nice set of rims decent exhaust and sat lower there every inch a GT.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

XF was when the V8 was dropped


And this is the dash I was referring to.


(Pic was obviously taken on the rare day that everything was working and visible )



image

Yeah you're not wrong . Owned an XF Ghia many moons ago and had endless problems with the electrics, trip computer not working, diabolical cruise control . the digital gauges were a joke, especially the tacho

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

Couldn’t disagree more Mercury T!
Yes the F6/Typhoon was quicker but the BA GT was far from being rubbish and imo still look great today!
Slow.... That depends what your comparing it to! Was as quick as the Clubsport in 2003 and really made HSV lift it’s game as it had no real competition for many years before the BA GT came along.
The auto wasn’t the best in the BA GT and really held back the 290 but the manual was/is a very enjoyable drive, especially with a decent exhaust note to back it up..
I have a low k one in my collection and quite enjoy driving it when time permits. Still turns heads, never gives me an ounce of problems, and has one of the best exhaust notes in the business..
Just a great old Grand Tourer...

Agree with this post. I also have a low km manual BA GT owned for 13years now and took it out last Sunday for drive down to Bowral as it doesn't get used much now with the Mustang being the new toy . The BA is a fun car to drive and gets plenty of looks on the road ….

Speaking of build quality though , give me the BA over the Mustang anyday...not so much because of panel gaps but the lacklustre interior, things breaking easily

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I think that sector was taken over by Hiaces etc. years ago.

Even when the Holden Ute re-appeared in 1990 there was no panel van there either.

Dr Terry

I wouldn't call it taken over, comparing a forward control deathtrap bread van to a comfy car based panel van. Not even close.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Yeah you're not wrong . Owned an XF Ghia many moons ago and had endless problems with the electrics, trip computer not working, diabolical cruise control . the digital gauges were a joke, especially the tacho

No problems with my XF, being a base GL van, it's not fitted with all the electronic crap.

[XRtowcar]

XE was a shocker. Mine was a S Pak manual EfI, no air, no power steering.
Clutch weight of a truck. Heavy steering. Firewall rusted through at eight years of age.
Water leaks around front and rear screens. Blown head gasket.
Didn’t touch a Ford for nine years after it.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

XE was a shocker. Mine was a S Pak manual EfI, no air, no power steering.
Clutch weight of a truck. Heavy steering. Firewall rusted through at eight years of age.
Water leaks around front and rear screens. Blown head gasket.
Didn’t touch a Ford for nine years after it.

Sounds like you got a lemon.
Mates dad bought new an 84 s pak, 20 years and 325k later still going strong. Only sold it on because injectors needed doing and didn't want to spend. Still got $4,000 for it. Bloke who bought it rebuilt the engine and is still in operation,

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by 98TLS

Cant pick a worst Falcon though ive owned a few,guess ive been lucky as the only time ive ever come to a stop was when the gearbox in my long ago owned XYGS decided enough was enough and quit even then to be fair it had every right to BAs am on my 3rd, everyone of em has been good to me and a wheel bearing in the XR8 ute is about all ive shelled out for,theres a couple of things need seeing to on the GT-P ie hooldlining will need doing soon and the annoying mixer shaft,for me anyway there without doubt one of the best looking Falcons ever made,nice set of rims decent exhaust and sat lower there every inch a GT.

Off topic Alert!!

Post quoted, as it's how I feel about our Aussie Falcons too.
I've read through this thread a number of times now, trying to put thoughts
into words. I can't quite pick a "worst" Falcon, and it seems there's some tough task masters in here.

I'd like to suggest rather than a worst Falcon, perhaps discussion has centred around the worst "Ford Cost Cutting Measure or Design Stuff Up".
As a number of issues raised have presented themselves over a fair few models of Falcons. Cooling systems, head gaskets, bolt, interior crap, door handles, door hinges, etc, etc... That's easier for me to pick than a worst Falcon.

Having grown up with a fair number of models, and unashamedly owning a majority of XD-XG series, now an E, a B, and finally an FGII, I've seen a lot of things that make me want to drive them off a cliff at times.

But as others have compared these things with other makes and models, we have probably fared somewhere in the middle.
There are the obvious Friday arvo specials that are just pieces of junk from new, and yeah, I reckon they'd turn my hair greyer than it already is.

As 98LTS has writte, I love all my Falcons, and accept their faults.
I don't look forward to repairing the BF or FGII when they decide to stop, but will cross that bridge when I get to it!

Ed

[Sprintey]

Cost cutting measure - when they deleted the boot trim (carpet on higher levels!) on the inside of the bootlid...

Was this between EL and AU?

[fnp]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Cost cutting measure - when they deleted the boot trim (carpet on higher levels!) on the inside of the bootlid...

Was this between EL and AU?

That really annoys me on the FG.


I actually don't think the EA generally was such a bad car, but I would nominate the EA with the 3.2.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Cost cutting measure - when they deleted the boot trim (carpet on higher levels!) on the inside of the bootlid...

Was this between EL and AU?

My au has it.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Cost cutting measure - when they deleted the boot trim (carpet on higher levels!) on the inside of the bootlid...

Was this between EL and AU?

That was only on lower spec cars though right? Fairmont etc still got it I think.

The worst things I remember were removing the gloss on the red turbo rocker covers for FG, and removing the green rocker covers for E Gas all together, leaving them bare.

Also giving the BF XR8 and XRT the bigger, ventilated Territory rear discs, then deleting it for BFII

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

Off topic Alert!!

I'd like to suggest rather than a worst Falcon, perhaps discussion has centred around the worst "Ford Cost Cutting Measure or Design Stuff Up".
As a number of issues raised have presented themselves over a fair few models of Falcons. Cooling systems, head gaskets, bolt, interior crap, door handles, door hinges, etc, etc... That's easier for me to pick than a worst Falcon.

But as others have compared these things with other makes and models, we have probably fared somewhere in the middle.
There are the obvious Friday arvo specials that are just pieces of junk from new, and yeah, I reckon they'd turn my hair greyer than it already is.

Agree, bought a new WB panel van back in 82, after owning HJ, X and Z vans.
It no doubt was a Friday arvo special, paint finish, found rope around a wishbone, tools under the seat, build sheets, I wasn't suppose to have, constantly breaking stuff which never happened previously and yet it was essentially the exact same van but what a wreck.
Offloaded real quick and went back to a HX.

[Dr Smith]

As a counter view...

My family and my own individual purchases must have been graced with FoMoCo Oz good luck.
From my parents first brand new new Falcon purchases: XP, XW, XE, ELii no problems and always serviced by the book although my father preferred replacing parts before they wore whenever told they would need replacing next service. Two of these were used a delivery vehicles as well and racked up 300,000+km
XF replaced stolen XE and was second hand....lifters replaced and the dealer was the problem in this case...
My own new purchases after inheriting the same above XW & XE were BA FG....and on my 3rd Terry now.

I know the first ever Falcon wasn't durable enough for Australian conditions and fixed in later iterations.
EA was release too early and rushed to market...yet still one of the best balanced designs I've seen in a large sedan.
BA had issues and again maybe should have been delayed on release however my only issue was the recall for water pump, think it was due to o-ring into the rear(?)
I did test drive a new SYII Terry Ghia turbo and almost bought it but did a house extension instead.
FG was a G6ET and I should have kept it.

[Sprintey]

Good post Dr Smith, we've been lucky as well. ED was excellent - they probably had ironed out all the bugs - and had additional soundproofing on the EA/EB - that was a really nice car, very reliable. MIL's AUII was superb, SY has been a good car over 300,000km but you must maintain the suspension, and FG is very reliable - many of my son's mates (FG is his car) have now switched to an FG as well, as their cars suffered major mechanical problems and they traded.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

Off topic Alert!!

Post quoted, as it's how I feel about our Aussie Falcons too.
I've read through this thread a number of times now, trying to put thoughts
into words. I can't quite pick a "worst" Falcon, and it seems there's some tough task masters in here.

I'd like to suggest rather than a worst Falcon, perhaps discussion has centred around the worst "Ford Cost Cutting Measure or Design Stuff Up".
As a number of issues raised have presented themselves over a fair few models of Falcons. Cooling systems, head gaskets, bolt, interior crap, door handles, door hinges, etc, etc... That's easier for me to pick than a worst Falcon.

Having grown up with a fair number of models, and unashamedly owning a majority of XD-XG series, now an E, a B, and finally an FGII, I've seen a lot of things that make me want to drive them off a cliff at times.

But as others have compared these things with other makes and models, we have probably fared somewhere in the middle.
There are the obvious Friday arvo specials that are just pieces of junk from new, and yeah, I reckon they'd turn my hair greyer than it already is.

As 98LTS has writte, I love all my Falcons, and accept their faults.
I don't look forward to repairing the BF or FGII when they decide to stop, but will cross that bridge when I get to it!

Ed

Bang on and very good point overall - worst Falcon model ?
Thats a lottery regards what model and when from your own ownership experience.
You can nominate every model has this :
Very happy owner experience
So so happy owner experience
Unhappy ownership experience
Absolutely worst ownership experience
All the above will fall into X model and the type of comments those owners would make for and against.
Sure %'s would rule if your doing a proper survey across all models but we're coming from individual experiences for comment.

Any new model us Enthusiasts have bought new or second hand we did for the love of our Falcons for daily use/needs.
My XC ute was a utter POS sadly as much as I loved it, I wouldn't tell people not in the know what was wrong with it thats for sure but that was my worst model experience but yet Moff did the great 1 2 finish so the model has great memories at the same time, you move on.
Old man had a XA V8 coupe, never a prob it was perfecto.
XR V8 Fairmont another brilliant ownership experience.
Had a XF panelvan, so damn reliable it was great barring no V8 then.
You can see I have a T3, looks subjective to some as we know but one of the most reliable models made and good quality.
The Sprint as the finale, we've all seen what issues have/are occuring sadly BUT I love them Warts and All just as mentioned above - accept the faults no matter how much we know wrong re cost cuts/short cuts etcetc....
Every model has made positive and negative impact depending when in your time.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Good post Dr Smith, we've been lucky as well. ED was excellent - they probably had ironed out all the bugs - and had additional soundproofing on the EA/EB - that was a really nice car, very reliable. MIL's AUII was superb, SY has been a good car over 300,000km but you must maintain the suspension, and FG is very reliable - many of my son's mates (FG is his car) have now switched to an FG as well, as their cars suffered major mechanical problems and they traded.

I have too. Outside of general maintenance, and wear items like bushes etc, I haven't had any major problems bar 1 BTR rebuild, and that was because it was abused. I've never had one crap itself completely, or require major work. Can't say anyone in my family has either. They might have their little issues, but they are generally rugged and dependable. It's just the little things that can let them down. Mixer shafts etc.

[Sprintey]

Yep, the only day the ED (bought 2nd hand 50,000km) ever misbehaved was when the Ms reported the coolant temp going high and then stopped the car. I was at work and went "d'oh there goes the head gasket", but no, it was just a split radiator hose. Miss that car.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

No VL running gear in a VN

Wrong.
As I said, the VN body was dropped almost straight onto the VL's running gear.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

unless you're referring to the suspension.

No, I'm referring to their Adidas sneakers

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The Buick engine had a total remake in the mid-80

Oh, so you're saying it didn't have iron heads and pushrods??

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The 5.0 litre in the AU was a 35 year old design, but it wasn't an "old POS".

Compared to what exactly?
The E series wasn't designed for a V8. So the Windsor was the only one they could squeeze in. If they had bothered to fix that problem for the original A series, maybe people wouldn't have hated it so much.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Was the EA interior any better than a VN

You really should see a doctor about your short-term memory issues, since I have already said the EA had a horrible interior.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The body on the EA was no better (or worse) than the VN. The cow-pat description could equally apply to the EA, it wasn't Ford's best effort.

Wrong
The exterior styling was the one thing FoA got right.
Holden on the other hand literally didn't bother. They took the Opel body and simply made it wider, which is what made it look like a bloated turd.

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

The VN sold gangbusters compared to any early Commodore, buyers must have liked some part of it.

The original Commodes were universally hated, even by the Holden diehards. They came close to ending Holden 30 years early.
At that point Holden could have rebadged the P76 and it would have sold better

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Project Capricorn was the problem. The stretched Mazda 626 FWD they were going to turn into a Falcon. They wasted 2 years on the stupid thing before it dawned on them that it was never going to work. It was just too long and skinny, and they couldn't widen it enough to make it not look like a sausage.

Then they had to rush EA to market 6 months before it was ready, because they wasted so much time on the bloody thing.

I wonder how things would have gone if project capricorn was never started, and they went to work on EA26 2 years earlier.

Probably could have killed Holden right there and then.

I wonder if part of the problem was that FoA had become too accustomed to "trailing" Holden?
I reckon by the late 60's we had honestly better cars, but too many people still preferred Holden.
FoA didn't seem to comprehend that even by sticking a new body on the XC, they had knocked the lamentable VB off the Holden pedestal. I can recall there being talk of how Ford needed to make the Falcon smaller to compete.
Then of course they had the amazing success with the Laser, which seemed to convince everyone that badge-engineering was the way to go.

I don't recall the specifics of Capricorn. But I do recall they toyed with the idea of a badge-engineered Luce (929)

[roddy1960]

Without actually having much to do with one , the XK got off to a less than ideal start and probably had lots of first time Falcon owners maybe regretting buying one . However the problems weren't too long getting sorted in the next few models as we know..If not , we would have missed out on a lot of bloody good cars for the next 50 plus years if Falcons following the XK hadn't improved markedly and caused an early demise of the bird much like in America in 1970.

XF and EA also seem to have a lot of critics too . Of my Falcons , one XB ute ,
XE , EF , AU , BA and FG the only one that I had frustration with is the BA . It was a Fairmont Ghia . The engine and transmission was good but I had all sorts of other issues that turned out to be a bit of a money pit. Bought it in November 2014 and traded it in March 2016 to buy the FG XR6.

That said the BA generally was a bloody good model but mine turned out to be the only Falcon I've owned that caused me anything like grief. When I spotted the XR6 and had to offload either the BA Fairmont Ghia or the AU Futura to buy it. .. Easy choice really ..No issues much at all with the AU after 13 years ownership , more kays but as trouble free as is possible .On the other hand Fairmont developed suspension problem , tailshaft /centre bearing troubles ,brakes and hand brake matters , failing ICC problem etc , etc.

Fairmont did look good though , engine faultless as was transmission and leather interior was nice but after 16 months and too much cash I wasn't too unhappy to offload it . Sad but true .

[XR Martin]

Was the front end of early EA susceptible to collapsing?
I seem to recall something about it, and apparently they added a welded 25mm bar across the front of the cross member?

Was that just a myth or did the early EAs not come with that bar. My 89 EA1 had the bar.

[Franco Cozzo]

Has anyone mentioned Falcon power windows yet? Its like Ford couldn't perfect power windows that work for longer than the warranty period.

https://powerwin.com.au/shop.html#!/...=0&sort=normal

How good is it when you have a business with a special section for 'Ford fixes'

[Swordie]

Originally Posted by vbvbvb088

What I find interesting is that I work with a 23yo who is into hotted up 80 90s Japanese cars. Every Friday he attends a met up of hundred of like minded people.... amongst this group VL Commodores are present and they all like them. I wonder why VL appeals to people who were not born when VL's made?

My guess popularity started with the 3.0Turbo VL. That was the most desirable.

I have driven the na VL when new plus the Skyline which had the same motor. It was a really nice motor for its time. After the VN came out the 3.0 was fondly looked on as a great motor.