Ford targets Customer Service

[mik]

Originally Posted by Wretched

and why would you expect that?

When was your last new Ford purchased? When was your last new Euro Ford (or any Euro) to lay a proper comparison?

as above to the second question, and to your first question, why would you expect less issues from a front wheel drive?
the same reason that manufacturers like them , they have less moving parts, the whole engine/g/box/diff is in the one case, it`s cheaper and easier to package, no tail shaft, less seals to leak, simpler rear suspension.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by mik

i did`nt know i had to own a new car to have an opinion, but having done some work shop time in my earlier years on mostly new cars also doing a stretch in one of the bigger car rental agencies in recent years and being on this forum for about the same time as you, one thing i have noticed on the various models,
the cars may have changed they may have a few more gadgets but the faults are still common ones , and if you have a look at the many many pages related to either the euro`s or the locals you will see what i mean.

Owning one gave me a better understanding of the issues or lack there of.
As i said im not using my car as a blanket rule for others, im talking ONE model not every Euro.
Its not limited to Euros, read the pages and pages and pages linked to aussie built cars.
There will always be faults i can agree with you there as they are built by us (Humans).

Anyway this is my last comment AFF vs Euros time to get back to the topic at hand.
I think its a step in the right direction and people that have purchased a new Ford recently and are looking to buy another might just buy it now, knowing they will receive a decent deal and be backed by the manufacturer.
Again Well done FoA

[superfly]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

There is genuine frustration with issues to do with Ford by some and there is genuine intolerance shown to them by others. Ironically the reason that is often stated by those self appointed to rid the internet of the supposed negativity is usually a variation on the themes "why did you buy the car", "my car did a gazillion miles with nothing more then an oil change therefore you are full of it" or "sick of hearing about this", which of course just makes it worse for those frustrated by Ford. Thats not a win for Ford by the way fan boys.

Look it's fine to be upset at Ford's lack of wanting to help you or these others. But to have it posted in our faces every single time certainly makes for boring reading. It's the same people complaining every single time.

We need to hear Ford's side on these stories to make it fair. Maybe Ford have offered the owners something (maybe not) but currently they are one sided opinions.

I've had my issues with car dealers (Subaru & Hyundai) so I know what it's like. But to continually harp on here about the same thing, just gets boring. Maybe make one thread and keep it updated with all the relevant info. Ford is here now, so maybe they will post also in those threads.

Ford wants to fix up their customer service so rather than being on here slagging them, ask them to put their money where their mouth is. But we do need both sides of the story.

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

One of the reasons I think Ford have suffered more than Holden in the sales race, is because Ford traditionally has had much less of the diehard, can see or hear no wrong fan boys (now very vocal on here) and much more a large collection of car enthusiasts, who purchased Ford because they considered them the best car for them at the time.

Don't agree. Ford Australia was loosing sales because they had a car people didn't want to buy unfortunately. I've always been a 'Ford' fan but yet after 25 years of being licensed, I only just bought my first Ford.

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Wishing them well and a sympathetic ear and joining your voice to wishing Ford well with its efforts to turn the brand around, while offering constructive feedback on the real problems Ford face might well. Sinead and the team at Ford wont acknowledge that feedback for the most part, but I am sure it will be read. We can only hope it is actioned on.

This I agree with.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

There is genuine frustration with issues to do with Ford by some and there is genuine intolerance shown to them by others. Ironically the reason that is often stated by those self appointed to rid the internet of the supposed negativity is usually a variation on the themes "why did you buy the car", "my car did a gazillion miles with nothing more then an oil change therefore you are full of it" or "sick of hearing about this", which of course just makes it worse for those frustrated by Ford. Thats not a win for Ford by the way fan boys.

One of the reasons I think Ford have suffered more than Holden in the sales race, is because Ford traditionally has had much less of the diehard, can see or hear no wrong fan boys (now very vocal on here) and much more a large collection of car enthusiasts, who purchased Ford because they considered them the best car for them at the time.

As this group got burn't and turned to other brands Ford started to feel the pinch, then when the the general lack of interest in large cars grew, Ford has got caught with their pants down as those lost sales to the more considered buyers actually do now matter. Many left and nothing in the showroom has made them come back these past few years - thats caused a rethink and a pretty major shift in policy on Fords part to customer service. A very major rethink in fact. Sinead publicly acknowledging a presence on here was unthinkable not that long ago.

To Fords credit they have very belatedly realised that group of buyers need to be won back. Slagging those who still are hanging on to a Ford, no matter how unhappy with it, is not helping Fords cause one bit and simply is not something that someone wishing Ford to succeed should do.

Wishing them well and a sympathetic ear and joining your voice to wishing Ford well with its efforts to turn the brand around, while offering constructive feedback on the real problems Ford face might well. Sinead and the team at Ford wont acknowledge that feedback for the most part, but I am sure it will be read. We can only hope it is actioned on.

This is not a minor change in circumstances with Fords recent announcement of a review. Ford Australia and their dealers in particular have traditionally resisted any intervention. The Ford dealers are almost like a mafia and have wholesale rejected change or criticism, blaming Ford almost exclusively for anything and everything. The mindset of the dealer network and some old school sales and service managers really defies the reality of their situation and has done for years.

Ford have a lot of work to do to turn things around, we should be supportive, but also critical when the need arises. This is really Fords last chance to stay relevant in the Australian market and stay in the top five long term.

Lets see this as a chance to try and turn Ford around, not shout down and destroy the good will of the last customers Ford has - particularly for Falcon.

The most intelligent post on here for ages .. good one!!

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Why does positive news always end up down a negative path around this place?

Because this forum is political.

[Evil Roy]

It's too late for me; never again will I go to Ford because of their shocking service standards.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Evil Roy

It's too late for me; never again will I go to Ford because of their shocking service standards.

So why are you here then?

[hawker]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Why does positive news always end up down a negative path around this place? Ford have stated they are aware things are not right and looking to fix them. Is this not a good thing? I I have had issues with warranty before as well but I don't take to my matchbox every chance I can, I look forward to Ford moving forward with this. I have had plenty of the surveys in recent years after buying and servicing my Fords and was hopefull that the surveys were not just a gimmick which they appear not to be. Geez just about had enough of this place.

I think it's because people want to see Ford walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

It'll be an uphill battle, and people on here won't be the only people with 2 cents worth to add.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The Ford dealers are almost like a mafia and have wholesale rejected change or criticism, blaming Ford almost exclusively for anything and everything. The mindset of the dealer network and some old school sales and service managers really defies the reality of their situation and has done for years.

One of my friends bought a new LW Focus and has had nothing but issues with the Powershift transmission. I shan't go into details as it's not the point of this thread, but long story short, he got the run-around by the dealer, which included blaming Ford by saying that the Powershift is a problematic transmission which Ford needs to address.

Suffice it to say that he has vowed never to purchase, nor to recommend, another Ford. That was his very first experience with Ford as well. After five months, the issue is still ongoing, correspondence with the dealer isn't getting him anywhere, and now Consumer Protection are involved.

It seems that the dealer isn't helping Ford one bit.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by flappist

So why are you here then?

Perhaps because he is a Ford fan. Passionate about the blue oval.

But unwilling to accept poor service and workmanship. Again and again.

I also believe you can buy low km almost new Fords from dealers/private sales that have zero to do with Ford, and can service them elsewhere too, meaning he can buy Fords without ever touching a dealer again.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by NX74205

One of my friends bought a new LW Focus and has had nothing but issues with the Powershift transmission. I shan't go into details as it's not the point of this thread, but long story short, he got the run-around by the dealer, which included blaming Ford by saying that the Powershift is a problematic transmission which Ford needs to address.

Suffice it to say that he has vowed never to purchase, nor to recommend, another Ford. That was his very first experience with Ford as well. After five months, the issue is still ongoing, correspondence with the dealer isn't getting him anywhere, and now Consumer Protection are involved.

It seems that the dealer isn't helping Ford one bit.

Sinead: experiences like this are all too common on here. You have passionate people investing in a Ford then getting treated like this. Considering less than 1% of Ford customers are on this forum, the fact that so many blue oval fans are having such difficulties should be ringing alarm bells.

This is what needs to be fixed. Today.

Set up a team, separate to the CRC fools, and contact customers who are experiencing such difficulties and fix their issues. Now. Not in a years time.

People in such situations want action, not words from Ford. Lets see what happens.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Sinead: experiences like this are all too common on here. You have passionate people investing in a Ford then getting treated like this. Considering less than 1% of Ford customers are on this forum, the fact that so many blue oval fans are having such difficulties should be ringing alarm bells.

This is what needs to be fixed. Today.

Set up a team, separate to the CRC fools, and contact customers who are experiencing such difficulties and fix their issues. Now. Not in a years time.

People in such situations want action, not words from Ford. Lets see what happens.

I think if they fixed every issue straight away they would go broke... Comes back to their manufacturing quality / tolerances, in particular with the Australian Built cars... E.g. Ford Territory's and rust. Seriously? Why can't they address this problem now after 8 years of production. Seems to me like theres a break down of communication. The engineers / development guys need a good kick in the **** for not fixing problems where they start, on the production line.

I would hate to think of what Ford spends on warranty repairs each year (in particular paint / rust).

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I think if they fixed every issue straight away they would go broke... Comes back to their manufacturing quality / tolerances, in particular with the Australian Built cars... E.g. Ford Territory's and rust. Seriously? Why can't they address this problem now after 8 years of production. Seems to me like theres a break down of communication. The engineers / development guys need a good kick in the **** for not fixing problems where they start, on the production line.

I would hate to think of what Ford spends on warranty repairs each year (in particular paint / rust).

Its not the engineers fault, its management fault for continuing to cut corners all in the name of saving a few bucks. And the serious lack of funding to fix these problems.

It all comes down to a lack of money.

But they need to realize that saving a few bucks now will lose customers later, and in turn lose money, further down the track.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its not the engineers fault, its management fault for continuing to cut corners all in the name of saving a few bucks. And the serious lack of funding to fix these problems.

Its a lack of funding period(in the Aussie models). Unless they can get a better budget nothing will change.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Its a lack of funding period(in the Aussie models). Unless they can get a better budget nothing will change.

Waste of money if they're not going global. Ford wants global platforms where spending the extra money gets better returns from multiple markets.

So unless they're willing to do something about FoA's unique model's lack of markets, then they will be replaced, or they will continue in their current rut. (FoA usually makes a great case for Falcon and Territory being so cheap, and not replacing it. With that extra dough they could be world class. However... they're not made in the USA)


I think Ford putting the power in the hands of the dealer is great. They are the only contact or representation with FoMoCo people really have - Even though they're separate entity dealerships - and what they form their experiences from. So bad delears will just continue to be bad, but the good ones can now do more for their customers.

[mumbo.com.au]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its not the engineers fault, its management fault for continuing to cut corners all in the name of saving a few bucks. And the serious lack of funding to fix these problems.

It all comes down to a lack of money.

But they need to realize that saving a few bucks now will lose customers later, and in turn lose money, further down the track.

I agree however I think Ford focus only on the first owner of the vehicle they sell, after all its the only person they sell a car to. So the cars a built to a price and a quality that should see good service to the average first owner. I'm an accountant and they have taken over the place. They would not build in one more ounce of quality than they needed to.

Consumers are to blame too. They would rather bluetooth connectivity or some other kind of gimmick that will be outdated in 18 months than a car that's put together properly.

[prydey]

why does everyone assume the bad feedback is the norm, and the good feedback is the exception??

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by prydey

why does everyone assume the bad feedback is the norm, and the good feedback is the exception??

I don't think anyone assumes this. Most people wont have any complaints with Ford.

However: It's how Ford handles problems/bad feedback that's the issue. It's this current attitude that is driving people away from buying another new Ford from a dealer again.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by prydey

why does everyone assume the bad feedback is the norm, and the good feedback is the exception??

Well when you ignore problems and keep building cars that rust for example what do you expect...

Every FG Falcon and SZ Territory will rust in some shape or another within its first 3 years of life.. is this acceptable?

And before you say your FG doesn't have any rust in it, neither does mine... Till of course you start pulling off panels.

I hate to say it but the build quality of Australian cars is probably worse then Korean cars now, only positive thing is we potentially use better plastics and fabrics.

[Sinead Phipps]

We've been quite clear that this is not a quick fix for us but we're working on ALL the elements that have an effect on a consumer's experience with our brand. We appreciate the interest and the lively discussion, but I'm not going to get into detailed discussions or debates about the CRC or dealers or any other single element of what we're working on as singling out any of them is unfair.

In relation to the one-sided conversation element, it is very tricky for us to say anything about individual cases. It is generally deemed ok for a consumer to say what they want about a brand but the same principle doesn't apply in reverse. We also have privacy issues we need to be mindful of. Just one example: we had someone who was unhappy with their vehicle post a negative comment on our Facebook page some time ago. The comment itself was very inflammatory and when we investigated it, we knew for a fact that the person involved had not been honest with how they said they had maintained and used their vehicle, which was what had led to the issue. The thread generated a lot of replies and started to take on a life of its own so we posted a reply that we'd been in contact with the dealer and someone would be contacting the customer soon. It was pretty generic and didn't give away anything - yet a number of people replied saying how inappropriate it was that we'd said anything and "didn't this violate privacy laws". Those people obviously knew nothing about privacy laws but it just goes to show how careful we have to be when responding in the public domain to any particular issue.

The only thing I can really say in response to this topic is what we said in the article: we're working on it as fast as we can. Some elements of what we're trying to do will take time but we're on the right path.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by Sinead Phipps

We've been quite clear that this is not a quick fix for us but we're working on ALL the elements that have an effect on a consumer's experience with our brand. We appreciate the interest and the lively discussion, but I'm not going to get into detailed discussions or debates about the CRC or dealers or any other single element of what we're working on as singling out any of them is unfair.

In relation to the one-sided conversation element, it is very tricky for us to say anything about individual cases. It is generally deemed ok for a consumer to say what they want about a brand but the same principle doesn't apply in reverse. We also have privacy issues we need to be mindful of. Just one example: we had someone who was unhappy with their vehicle post a negative comment on our Facebook page some time ago. The comment itself was very inflammatory and when we investigated it, we knew for a fact that the person involved had not been honest with how they said they had maintained and used their vehicle, which was what had led to the issue. The thread generated a lot of replies and started to take on a life of its own so we posted a reply that we'd been in contact with the dealer and someone would be contacting the customer soon. It was pretty generic and didn't give away anything - yet a number of people replied saying how inappropriate it was that we'd said anything and "didn't this violate privacy laws". Those people obviously knew nothing about privacy laws but it just goes to show how careful we have to be when responding in the public domain to any particular issue.

The only thing I can really say in response to this topic is what we said in the article: we're working on it as fast as we can. Some elements of what we're trying to do will take time but we're on the right path.

Can I just say how great is it again to have a well known (in our circles anyway) Ford employee posting on here again. Hasn't been this good since Uncle Geoff used to post (RIP).

As far as dealership servicing goes and I know it's not Ford but I had to take my Pajero back to the dealer last week (first time it's seen a Mitsu dealer since it's 3000km complimentary service, now has 120,000km+) for software updates and an injector pump rescale and learn and it was a very, very pleasant experience. The attitude with the concierge, and dealer team was great.

If I didn't need to be at work they were happy for me to wait in the lounge with free nibbles, tea, coffee, TV and Wifi access while they did the updates and collect the car on the spot.

Service like this would make me want to go back to them for more however I'm not willing to fork out $800 for an oil and fuel filter change.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Can I just say how great is it again to have a well known (in our circles anyway) Ford employee posting on here again. Hasn't been this good since Uncle Geoff used to post (RIP).

As far as dealership servicing goes and I know it's not Ford but I had to take my Pajero back to the dealer last week (first time it's seen a Mitsu dealer since it's 3000km complimentary service, now has 120,000km+) for software updates and an injector pump rescale and learn and it was a very, very pleasant experience. The attitude with the concierge, and dealer team was great.

If I didn't need to be at work they were happy for me to wait in the lounge with free nibbles, tea, coffee, TV and Wifi access while they did the updates and collect the car on the spot.

Service like this would make me want to go back to them for more however I'm not willing to fork out $800 for an oil and fuel filter change.

Yes it is great to have Sinead on the forum now.

In regards to Ford's service, our local Ford dealer has all of that stuff as well (not sure about wifi) so it's not Ford are falling behind in this regard. In fact I am about to pick up my 3rd new Ford since 2004 and in that time I have had great service locally. Any issues I have had have been fixed promptly under warranty and I have even had something fixed put of the warranty period. I certainly can't complain about Fords service. I did have a disagreement with one service manager once but I can't blame Ford for one dealership employee getting out of the wrong side of the bed.

[Mercury 8]

One of our Ford's went in for 15 k service on Monday ( LW Focus) all was good. Just got an email from dealer to see if we were happy, not the normal one we get, also not the one we usually get from a survey mob either but one that seemed to go a lot further to finding out if we were happy and if not a number which they urged us to ring if we were not happy so they could get to the bottom of it. As it turns out we were very happy with the service and a small warranty issue was addressed without fuss which said dealer usually does if any of our cars need attention under warranty.Good to see them lifting the bar even though we have never had an issue with said dealer with the last few Ford's bought from there.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

One of our Ford's went in for 15 k service on Monday ( LW Focus) all was good. Just got an email from dealer to see if we were happy, not the normal one we get, also not the one we usually get from a survey mob either but one that seemed to go a lot further to finding out if we were happy and if not a number which they urged us to ring if we were not happy so they could get to the bottom of it. As it turns out we were very happy with the service and a small warranty issue was addressed without fuss which said dealer usually does if any of our cars need attention under warranty.Good to see them lifting the bar even though we have never had an issue w
ith said dealer with the last few Ford's bought from there.

Denmac? I got the same email.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Well when you ignore problems and keep building cars that rust for example what do you expect...

Every FG Falcon and SZ Territory will rust in some shape or another within its first 3 years of life.. is this acceptable?

And before you say your FG doesn't have any rust in it, neither does mine... Till of course you start pulling off panels.

I hate to say it but the build quality of Australian cars is probably worse then Korean cars now, only positive thing is we potentially use better plastics and fabrics.

have you pulled panels off other cars??

my ba didn't rust, my bf2 didn't rust, and no, my fg isn't rusty either.

to single ford out as though it is some massive issue, is one of the issues i have with a growing number of members on here, and why these threads seem to make out like it is the majority not the minority.

someone has a poor experience with a dealership and suddenly its the whole dealership network that is a failure!! i just don't buy that sort of logic and as has been noted, refuse to jump on this doom and gloom bandwagon that so many others are so quick to do.

some say this is me saying everything is rosy, and fine, but those that actually comprehend simple english will notice that nowhere have i said this ever. i just don't think its as big an issue as some of the knockers (i didn't say haters) like to make out.

[Mercury 8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Denmac? I got the same email.

BBF.Different to the normal one we get.Hope you can get your issues sorted mate.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Sinead Phipps

In relation to the one-sided conversation element, it is very tricky for us to say anything about individual cases. It is generally deemed ok for a consumer to say what they want about a brand but the same principle doesn't apply in reverse. We also have privacy issues we need to be mindful of. Just one example: we had someone who was unhappy with their vehicle post a negative comment on our Facebook page some time ago. The comment itself was very inflammatory and when we investigated it, we knew for a fact that the person involved had not been honest with how they said they had maintained and used their vehicle, which was what had led to the issue. The thread generated a lot of replies and started to take on a life of its own so we posted a reply that we'd been in contact with the dealer and someone would be contacting the customer soon. It was pretty generic and didn't give away anything - yet a number of people replied saying how inappropriate it was that we'd said anything and "didn't this violate privacy laws". Those people obviously knew nothing about privacy laws but it just goes to show how careful we have to be when responding in the public domain to any particular issue.

Can understand that 100% Sinead. Apart from being very heavily involved in the retail aspect and also reading 1000's of post each week here, many people need to understand that expectations are different to everyone and operating to keep 100% happy 100% of the time .... well as we all know it will not happen.

2 sides to every story .... as stated in Sineads post. Many come on here and complain that Ford will not warranty their 400rwkw 3 year old ...... without stating the mods ..... or their friends brother's girlfriends dad's gearbox blew up after only 50k's ..... while at the drag stip ..... without this being mentioned. Full stories are not relayed, just the one sided view, customer always right, expectations out of reality, truths hidden from view.

As has been mentioned in a post above, comments like 'Every' FG and SZ Territory will rust .... etc, while it is just utter rubbish and comments like these, while just an opinion and can be expressed within the site guide lines, I just hope that the majority and those that can think for themselves here can bypass these generalisations and make up their own minds based on their own experiences.

Most, and it is a vast majority are happy with Customer service at present from most dealers. Unfortunately, same as Faceless Book, the negative comments are always the loudest and most constant from the absolute minority ...... eventually the majority start to think that it is the norm and can jump on the bandwagon without any experience what so ever. Yes, of course things could be improved. Even after this exercise is completed, there will still be room for more. You will never ever make everyone happy and even the extreme few will still make one hell of a noise.

At this moment I do have a SY Terri and 2xFG's, both been great so far to my expectations, the Terri and 1 FG being 3 years old and plus. It is the repeated generalization from the few that turns things into an 'anti everything' frenzy and social media is just such a window of opportunity for the minority to make such a loud noise.

The majority do try and say something positive but that is never as exciting or thought provoking as the negatives that continues` ..... just read the paper .... or some of the above posts.

Just trying to put some balance back .... appreciate Sinead (& FoA) to have some input and by no means trying to be blindly positive just because of this. If things need to be said, they can be of course, but there really does need to be a balance so the negativity of the minority do not overtake the quietness of those who really do have something positive to say.

My first new car was an XD ..... last one to date was an FG. While some (again the very few) have stated they would not buy because of the lack of support through dealers ..... I am the opposite and will continue to do so because of the support through the dealers. Can be improved of course .... Some people do have genuine complaints towards some dealers and the way they are treated through FoA HQ and am glad that FORD are changing and taking notice.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Well when you ignore problems and keep building cars that rust for example what do you expect...

Every FG Falcon and SZ Territory will rust in some shape or another within its first 3 years of life.. is this acceptable?

And before you say your FG doesn't have any rust in it, neither does mine... Till of course you start pulling off panels.

I hate to say it but the build quality of Australian cars is probably worse then Korean cars now, only positive thing is we potentially use better plastics and fabrics.

XA's are shocking for rust...

[SSD-85]

I feel this quote to be highly relevant here;

"If you do something right, no one will know that you have done anything at all..."

Sad fact of life really. Hardly anyone takes the time to positively remark, and when it does actually happen, even less people will notice.

FoA is doing all they can. And I feel it is enough given the circumstance. Is it fair to expect anything more than that?

[Flat Top]

its great they are focusing on customers, !!! always had good service here on peninsula, my only issue is they couldnt deliver a Ranger in the contract time?-had to find another or walk!!! (sold mine) ah well .