Should the Australian flag be changed?

[XR6_661]

As long as it's not changed to the aboriginal flag you'll hear no complaints from me.

[scoupedy]

Originally Posted by dave93761

OK so here's my $0.02:

Stop hating on our flag & anthem, get into it......try singing the national anthem next time you hear it!!! You might actually get this strange feeling....you may even feel proud of your country!!!

The anthem, the flag......both the same for me - If it ain't broke, don't fix it - there's nothing wrong with what we've got.....all you lefties who don't like it....people fought and died for that flag, how's about showing a modicum of respect for every digger & police officer that has perished defending that flag and / or its values.....

I'm only 25, and I'm quite ambivalent towards the whole republic issue (makes no difference to me who our head of state is, because it doesn't really matter and won't actually change anything in reality), but I can't believe people can actually seriously say we should change the flag? Might as well start a mutiny...

That flag was designed by Australians for Australians, and yes it's important to recognise that this land was settled by the British, without their input we wouldn't be what we are today....so what if the Union Jack is on the flag - do you actually look at the flag and think 'there's a bloody union jack on there?' When I see the flag, I associate it with AUSTRALIA and nothing else. And so it should stay that way for the rest of time.

All these loonies who pop up at the same time every year saying the same thing.....sit down and be quiet, you're offending everybody with your miserable and inane drivel. Our flag is our flag, no we don't get a choice in what it looks like, we didn't create this country, but by God we will love it and protect it and everything it stands for.

And no I don't care what Canada did, or if any other country has changed their flag, that doesn't justify it one bit.

If you don't like what the Australian flag looks like, go and start your own country where you can choose whatever bloody flag you like - that's fine.

I'm of Greek Cypriot (mother's side) and English/Welsh (father) decent, but I was born here, and I have an Australian flag proudly hanging on the wall in my bedroom. I have several family members and friends who are members of our armed forces, who wake up every day and salute the same flag with honour and pride every single morning, whilst others are actually championing that it should be replaced! What blasphemy!





Why does the anthem have to be any more emotive than it already is?? Do you guys not think that Advance Australia Fair suits this desciption??? Yes it's a bit old fashioned, and we don't even use some of the words anymore, but it's our anthem! You don't get a choice!!

Same as the flag - if listening to our anthem makes you sick, then you don't deserve to be an Australian - go somewhere else, start your own country and have whatever bloody anthem you like!

When done properly, the anthem can be quite emotive.....it also helps when the person leading the singing does a good job.....some people have absolutely massacred it over the years....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4fOtbKUme0
Fast forward to the Austrlian anthem and hear the crowd screaming it out....gives you goosebumps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ZGnOjLeWM
The Wallabies give it a go......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVezM...eature=related
1986 AFL Grand Final...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvZW...eature=related
Delta Goodrem gives it a softer touch at the Melbourne Cup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AacQPKBI8
World Cup 2006

Rant over

Like I said, my $0.02....don't mean to offend or antagonise anybody.

100% agree here good on ya mate

[BIGJB]

Well said dave93761.

To the rest who have said change it and change the anthem.
Read post #143. This what being patriotic is all about.
Show some pride in our country and it's history instead of bagging
it and dishonouring what our forefathers fought for and believed in.
Be Australian crying out loud.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Show some pride in our country and it's history instead of bagging
it and dishonouring what our forefathers fought for and believed in.
Be Australian crying out loud.

Seriously, Advanced Australia Fair is all of a sudden what our "forefathers" fought for and believed in? Give me a break.

[ubute]

I wonder what the result of a poll on whether or not the Ford oval logo should be replaced. Can picture a similar discussion.

"It doesn't represent modern Ford"

"The font is old fashioned"

"Mazda changed their logo so why shouldn't Ford"

"What relevance does the colour blue, or for that matter the surname of some old dead dude have to the brand anyway"

"I used to be a Holden fan. I moved to supporting Ford after buying a Falcon, but I just can't identify with an old fashioned blue oval with the "Ford" text as the logo. It should have like this awesome Phoenix rising from the ashes or something instead, that's much more badass!!"

etc etc...

[Franco Cozzo]

I thought our "forefathers" fought for freedom and our way of life, not a flag or anthem? Waitup, I just associated freedom and Australia and we all know thats going backwards.

[Dave_Obsession]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Seriously, Advanced Australia Fair is all of a sudden what our "forefathers" fought for and believed in? Give me a break.

You're taking that way too literally AND out of context...

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Advance Australia Fair" is the official national anthem of Australia. Created by the Scottish–born composer, Peter Dodds McCormick, the song was first performed in 1878, but did not gain its status as the official anthem until 1984. Until then, the song was sung in Australia as a patriotic song. In order for the song to become the anthem, it had to face a vote between the Royal anthem God Save the Queen, the "unofficial anthem" Waltzing Matilda and Song of Australia.

What they DID fight for and believe in was what the words of the anthem represent.....

Yeah sure it's an old song, but it's got tradition and history.
You'll find a lot of national anthems are old songs, but do we hear about plans to change them as well??

I'll tell you one thing though, if we were having this chat in the USA, you'd be dragged out of your house and beaten in the street for being un-patriotic.

At the end of the day, we don't demonstrate enough patriotism, which I feel leads to people becoming somewhat disillusioned, which tends to lead to this sort of nonsense talk about changing things.....

In the US, they're downright in-your-face unashamedly proud of their country. Why aren't we the same??

Too many people are almost ashamed to identify themselves with being Australian, only when it suits them (ie national sporting events etc) - they much prefer saying that they're 'ethnic' etc, when the reality is that they are 2nd or 3rd generation Australian-born...

[BIGJB]

Originally Posted by dave93761

You're taking that way too literally AND out of context...



What they DID fight for and believe in was what the words of the anthem represent.....

Thank you, was just about to say the same thing.

The flag and the anthem represent us as Australians, so yes they did fight for
the flag and the anthem because they fought for the great country we call home which is exactly what they both represent.

[trippytaka]

Regardless of what you think of the monarchy, our connection to it, and the direction you want our country to go in, choosing only to look at what the Union Jack represents is a one dimensional way to look at our flag.

The fact is we're a baby of a country, with just over 200 years of history. We haven't always been represented by the current flag, but as it stands, it’s one of the only pieces of cultural continuity our nation has. It should be held close to our hearts as we look past its individual components and, instead, fight for what the flag truly represents.

A nation's flag is more than the sum of its parts and sometimes the people who rally for change waste their energy focusing on individual symbols within the entire flag - like the Union Jack. The fact is the pieces that make up our flag are not a representation of who we all are. But it’s a nonsensical argument to try and make every piece of the flag represent all people. If we were to do this, we would be constantly changing our flag as the ingredients of what make up Australian society evolves.

What we need to do is to stop looking at what is on the flag and start looking at what it represents, what it means today, what it meant to past generations and what it should mean to future Australians.

Our flag is a thread that helps bind the people (of all races) who call themselves Australian. It is an inherent link that brings all generations together - the people who have been born under it, fought under it, and aspired to everything it represents. It is a symbol of our values; everything we work towards and everything we aspire to be as individuals and as a nation.

This flag represents all we have been as a nation – both bad and good. And while we should never forget the triumphs, heroism, mateship, ingenuity etc that have helped mould us, so to we should never forget some of our darkest moments that we have made as a nation. Instead of sweeping past mistakes like racism under the carpet with the “new beginning” that supposedly will come with a new flag, accept our mistakes, learn from them and use them to grow as a nation. Keep the flag, not only as the symbol of what we want to be, but as a stark reminder of what not to be.

My girlfriend (and future wife) came to Australia, from Philippines, when she was 3. She, like me, has no connection to the monarchy – I have Irish and Scottish blood so if anything I am “culturally” against “mother England” as much as the next person. My girl doesn’t look at the flag and see an outdated connection to England, what she sees is the freedom and opportunity she would never have if she didn’t grow up here. She sees the nation that her family fought tooth and nail to get to, and to make a life in. Her loyalty is to our nation… and, regardless of the Union Jack in the corner, the current Australian flag.

If just half of the people who get on their soapbox about changing the flag showed the REAL LIFE commitment to Australia that my girlfriend and her family has, then Australia would be an immeasurably better place.

So, in short, stop trying to change the paintjob and start focusing on everything that makes the race car competitive!

[MethodX]

What i dont get about you anglo aussies is when you play against the Poms in sports they are ****************** and weird.
Also in social siturations.
But when its a sport an Aussie isnt there, Football, F1, you love them.
I dont get it, isnt it time you recognise the other cultures that made the place.

Why the constant UK worship?

[schnoods]

Change it when Australia changes, to a republic on our own accord.


Till then its our flag and represents the country we're under....

As for the anthem, people saying change it to waltzing matilda is ludicrous, changing it to a thief stealing a sheep then trying to bolt from the coppers is just lunacy. Its a great larrakin song of our heritage, but it isnt an anthem....

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Why the constant UK worship?

Good question.

America left England in the 1770's!
So what is Australia waiting for?

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Good question.

America left England in the 1770's!
So what is Australia waiting for?

things were a little different to Australia current situation.
Back then the British were (quite rightly) banning slavery, and
the likes of George Washington didn't agree.

and further more, look at the difference between a country like the USA and Canada. Canada stayed under the British system and i know that i'd much rather live in Canada then the U.S

[irlewy86]

Am I the only one who see's the irony in the statement of "If it aint broke, don't try and fix it".

I mean I just had a look around the forums and there are plenty of people taking perfectly good cars to performance workshops here. So maybe instead of saying we're changing the flag, maybe we should say we're just "supercharging" Australia with a cosmetic enhancement. :

[Raptor]

I prefer

"If it aint broke, keep fixing it until it is"

At least 1 in 5 think the flags broken anyway. That won't be enough to bring about a change (yet) but it's not real a real good situation either.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

So maybe instead of saying we're changing the flag, maybe we should say we're just "supercharging" Australia with a cosmetic enhancement. :

Frangipani stickers on the flag?

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Frangipani stickers on the flag?

I think a jetpilot sticker would do the job nicely

[kezzer]

ALL HAIL KEVIN ZEDONG!! haha,

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by MethodX

What i dont get about you anglo aussies is when you play against the Poms in sports they are ****************** and weird.
Also in social siturations.
But when its a sport an Aussie isnt there, Football, F1, you love them.
I dont get it, isnt it time you recognise the other cultures that made the place.

Why the constant UK worship?

Having the Union Jack on the flag is an acknowledgement of our history. Changing the flag will not change the fact we began as a British settlement.
I'm proud of our country's history, you seem to be confusing acknowledgement with worship.

When i look at our flag all I see is Australia, anyone seeing anything else is looking too hard and missing what the flag truly stands for.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Having the Union Jack on the flag is an acknowledgement of our history. Changing the flag will not change the fact we began as a British settlement.
I'm proud of our country's history, you seem to be confusing acknowledgement with worship.

When i look at our flag all I see is Australia, anyone seeing anything else is looking too hard and missing what the flag truly stands for.

Spot on.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by MethodX

What i dont get about you anglo aussies is when you play against the Poms in sports they are ****************** and weird.
Also in social siturations.
But when its a sport an Aussie isnt there, Football, F1, you love them.
I dont get it, isnt it time you recognise the other cultures that made the place.

Why the constant UK worship?

Funny I'm a wog and I don't want the flagged changed. Also funny how the 'non anglo's' keep going on that their this or that and not Australian.

[Stattic]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Am I the only one who see's the irony in the statement of "If it aint broke, don't try and fix it".

I mean I just had a look around the forums and there are plenty of people taking perfectly good cars to performance workshops here. So maybe instead of saying we're changing the flag, maybe we should say we're just "supercharging" Australia with a cosmetic enhancement. :

haha that's classic

[AC/DC]

NO it shouldnt be changed

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Spot on.

you actually like being ruled by people who arent even English?
A mixture of Greek and German.
About time Aus showed it has grown up, not just a colony.
Like India, South Africa, Canada.

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by dave93761

OK so here's my $0.02:

Stop hating on our flag & anthem, get into it......try singing the national anthem next time you hear it!!! You might actually get this strange feeling....you may even feel proud of your country!!!

The anthem, the flag......both the same for me - If it ain't broke, don't fix it - there's nothing wrong with what we've got.....all you lefties who don't like it....people fought and died for that flag, how's about showing a modicum of respect for every digger & police officer that has perished defending that flag and / or its values.....

I'm only 25, and I'm quite ambivalent towards the whole republic issue (makes no difference to me who our head of state is, because it doesn't really matter and won't actually change anything in reality), but I can't believe people can actually seriously say we should change the flag? Might as well start a mutiny...

That flag was designed by Australians for Australians, and yes it's important to recognise that this land was settled by the British, without their input we wouldn't be what we are today....so what if the Union Jack is on the flag - do you actually look at the flag and think 'there's a bloody union jack on there?' When I see the flag, I associate it with AUSTRALIA and nothing else. And so it should stay that way for the rest of time.

All these loonies who pop up at the same time every year saying the same thing.....sit down and be quiet, you're offending everybody with your miserable and inane drivel. Our flag is our flag, no we don't get a choice in what it looks like, we didn't create this country, but by God we will love it and protect it and everything it stands for.

And no I don't care what Canada did, or if any other country has changed their flag, that doesn't justify it one bit.

If you don't like what the Australian flag looks like, go and start your own country where you can choose whatever bloody flag you like - that's fine.

I'm of Greek Cypriot (mother's side) and English/Welsh (father) decent, but I was born here, and I have an Australian flag proudly hanging on the wall in my bedroom. I have several family members and friends who are members of our armed forces, who wake up every day and salute the same flag with honour and pride every single morning, whilst others are actually championing that it should be replaced! What blasphemy!





Why does the anthem have to be any more emotive than it already is?? Do you guys not think that Advance Australia Fair suits this desciption??? Yes it's a bit old fashioned, and we don't even use some of the words anymore, but it's our anthem! You don't get a choice!!

Same as the flag - if listening to our anthem makes you sick, then you don't deserve to be an Australian - go somewhere else, start your own country and have whatever bloody anthem you like!

When done properly, the anthem can be quite emotive.....it also helps when the person leading the singing does a good job.....some people have absolutely massacred it over the years....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4fOtbKUme0
Fast forward to the Austrlian anthem and hear the crowd screaming it out....gives you goosebumps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ZGnOjLeWM
The Wallabies give it a go......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVezM...eature=related
1986 AFL Grand Final...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYvZW...eature=related
Delta Goodrem gives it a softer touch at the Melbourne Cup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_AacQPKBI8
World Cup 2006

Rant over

Like I said, my $0.02....don't mean to offend or antagonise anybody.

It is good to see some one of 25 to show some mature stature, Im sure some of that age don't even give a rats A** to what being an Aussie is all about.

[Mickxr8]

just leave our flag alone.

let this thread die.

and.

wait for this same sh*tstorm to come up AGAIN next year

[peeds13]

Originally Posted by Brent

Anyway, I could just imagine the process for designing and selecting a new flag. Good god, by the time we'd appeased all the special interest groups, we'd have flag in the colours of the rainbow with a picture of a gay dugong playing a digeridoo in the top left corner.......

Thats the funniest thing I've heard!

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by mickxr8

just leave our flag alone.

let this thread die.

and.

wait for this same sh*tstorm to come up AGAIN next year

Agreed let this thread die. As Australia days being and gone, just wait another year for the same result. The flag stays how it is. :

[sleekism]

I think I represent "modern cosmopolitan Australia" with an Aussie dad and a Maori/Hungarian mum and I say leave the flag alone. Why?

Because the Australian flag represents our values. Last time I checked we were an English speaking parliamentary democracy with a legal system based on British common law. That is what the Union Jack represents for me and the Southern Cross represents our geographic location and our Judeo-Christian values.

For me changing the Australian flag to the Aboriginal flag would be immensely insulting. If Australia was a stone aged nomadic country with tribal law then the Aboriginal flag would be appropriate but we are not.

If we were to change it I think it would have to represent the 4 historic pillars of our civilization.

-Greece (democracy, philosophy, science, reason)
-Rome (Government, Latin Alphabet and language, Law, Military, Engineering)
-Britain (Parliamentry democracy, English,individualism, liberty, common law, capitalism)
-Israel/Judea (Jewish/Christian morals and values)

Can we combine the flags of Greece, Rome, Britain and Israel?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by bigdude1011

Sorry if someone else suggested this, but why not just get rid of the Union Jack, and put the Aboriginal flag in that corner?

This was going to be my suggestion as well.

A good point was made that we don't have any 'green and gold' theme on our flag.

So, perhaps the flag as it is now, with the Aboriginal flag in the top corner, the blue background replaced with green, and the stars changed to gold.

Perhaps with a flower, such as a Banksia or Wattle between the southern cross and the 7 pointed star under the Aboriginal flag?

However, while we are still a monarchy I would like it to stay the same.