Coyote XR8 still a year away

[mik]

it won`t matter what Ford do there will be those that whinge no matter how good or cheap the car is, had they done the NA xr8 with no blown GS there would be more of the same.

[burnz]

if i understand that right, the XR8 will remain supercharged??
just detuned..

[Luke Plaizier]

Man, I SO want an XR8 with S/C for the potential for future improvements at a just-over 50k pricepoint. An S/C XR8, Premium Sound, Manual, with the option of dealer fitted instrument-cluster-integrated LPi and I'll buy one.

GoAuto chimes in as well.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578C3000D9EF2


Lukeyson

[galaxy xr8]

Maybe when the XR8 re-enter's the market it will be at a similar power fiqure to that of the FPV's now and the FPV's will gain power.

[Rodge]

^^^ So they'll start badging the higher model FPV's with their crankshaft output instead of rwkw's

People seem to be forgetting that the V8 will be an imported engine whereas the inline six is all locally manufactured and has had all its R & D paid for years ago so naturally will have a lower cost to Ford Au.

I can just about hear the wingers allready.."oh its only got 307 kw's and they want a massive $3,000 more than an XR6 Turbo, they should be selling them for no more than $39,000 drive away, that's all they're worth" Really if they're asking $45,000 for them we should have had the supercharged GS Motor, why did they drop that motor, they're absolute idiots

There's NO pleasing some people.

[FPV8U]

Fairly positive article, still some hope for my much loved XR8 badge then

[fg_nitro]

Originally Posted by flappist

17 posts, some of them rather harsh.

So how many of you bought a new BF-FG BOSS 5.4 XR8 (i.e a new one in the last 5 years or so)?

I suspect the answer may give some insight into why the XR8 was not in the fisrt generation of coyotes.

In addition the GS sells for about what the XR8 did and is FAR superior so where is the problem really?

Because Flappist they would like to purchase a $55,000 dollar car for $10 dollars second hand and expect to make a profit on a depreciating asset.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

GoAuto chimes in as well.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578C3000D9EF2

mmm, and apparently the GS has 335KW, with the supposed XR8 possibly sitting just under that. Very comprehensive research there.

Originally Posted by GoAuto

Unless the reintroduction of a Falcon V8 forced the discontinuation of FPV’s entry-level GS model, the XR8’s performance would likely sit just below the GS-spec blown Miami V8, which produces 335kW and 570Nm.

[SteveJH]

Problem is, even if you use an XR6 @ $35,000 at the benchmark, a Miami engine probably isnt going to leave much if any change from $15,000. It would probably even cost more.

So any Supercharged XR8 *couldn't* be much cheaper then a GS is now if they wanted to make any money from it.

Throw in the N/A Coyote engine on the other hand, and with a new ECU you are talking an engine that is $6999 USD (RRP), so at wholesale might cost about that much including freight. Plus you then don't need to spend the man rebuilding or building it (depending on if Miami comes as a bare block or crate) plus the 5-10,000 for the supercharger.

I don't see how Ford could make a business case for XR8 unless it was a straight swap in of a Coyote. If they wanted to differentiate from the FPV's it might even fit without a bulge bonnet.

[Professor Farnsworth]

i would put a tenner on the XR8 if it EVER goes into production again, being an N/A 5.0, with around the same power as the mustang. It ticks all the logic boxes.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

i would put a tenner on the XR8 if it EVER goes into production again, being an N/A 5.0, with around the same power as the mustang. It ticks all the logic boxes.

It is easily the best option, and with the possibility of other models (G8E) being made cheap as chips (relatively speaking).

Then FPV would be the place to go for power (as it should be). I could not see the 315 being put in the XR8 especially as they are mechanically identical. How annoyed would current GS and GT owners be.

This car is not rocket science, the only thing it will need is as mentioned calibration and I doubt they would even need to do crash testing as the Miami would serve as precedence. So your left with emissions which isnt cheap but hey thats part of the business.

Do it already Ford before you have no falcon to sell.

[Falc'man]

There are 40 million reasons why an n.a. XR8 does not make any good business sense, not for Ford, nor FPV.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

There are 40 million reasons why an n.a. XR8 does not make any good business sense, not for Ford, nor FPV.

I think you're wrong.. N.A XR8 is the way to go if you ask me.. And if the work is done for XR8 N.A., then G8E is just a few bumper changes away. Or opens the door for at least a limited ED of G8E to test the water to see if it has a market.

[phillyc]

FG2 will get Coyote. FG2 gets the new PCM just like the new SZ Territory.

This will allow N/A XR8 & G8E models. Not having an XR8 ute and sedan is costing Ford 100 sales / month for each. Being N/A would allow the 'premium' to be say ~$1,000 over the Orion I6T.

I'd imagine a G8E would be awfully tempting for current G6ET owners to trade into a new model. As it would also provide a point of difference between new and old. You only need look at the number of trade ins being done on F6 (which are fantastic vehicles) on the SC335 GTs. Irrespective of whether or not it as rapid. Both XR8/G8E would still be faster than the SSV/CalaisV.

Note: The Brute Utes will have a N/A Coyote fitted up to a dyno at Craig Hasted's workshop within the week. Then to the FG Ute within the next month. After that, it will be parity tested in the Ute and the aim is for it to be ready and racing for a Bathurst competition / round debut.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

There are 40 million reasons why an n.a. XR8 does not make any good business sense, not for Ford, nor FPV.

i see it the other way around.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by phillyc

FG2 will get Coyote. FG2 gets the new PCM just like the new SZ Territory.

This will allow N/A XR8 & G8E models. Not having an XR8 ute and sedan is costing Ford 100 sales / month for each. Being N/A would allow the 'premium' to be say ~$1,000 over the Orion I6T.

I'd imagine a G8E would be awfully tempting for current G6ET owners to trade into a new model. As it would also provide a point of difference between new and old. You only need look at the number of trade ins being done on F6 (which are fantastic vehicles) on the SC335 GTs. Irrespective of whether or not it as rapid. Both XR8/G8E would still be faster than the SSV/CalaisV.

Note: The Brute Utes will have a N/A Coyote fitted up to a dyno at Craig Hasted's workshop within the week. Then to the FG Ute within the next month. After that, it will be parity tested in the Ute and the aim is for it to be ready and racing for a Bathurst competition / round debut.

Exactly, its the cheapest development costs/sales they are going to get for a while.

I can understand why FPV would not want Miami in a Ford car, it shouldnt be there, but thats not a reason to not build the car all together when the XR8 ute alone was ticking over ok. They are the ones that decided (again) to go their own way with Miami, so why should that restrict Ford with what they do. There are heaps of reasons why someone would buy a FPV over a XR8, but put the Maimi into the XR8 and then obviously the GS seems even more lost. Unless they drop it and have the XR8 S/C which still doesnt make sense.

Mustang bred XR8...its a marketeers dream. FPV needs ford to get their volumes back otherwise they will be tuning mondeos and mustangs in a few years time as there still is no indication whats going to happen down the track. Wait a year or two to become more financially stable and the length of time any new model has to recover its costs is also reduced.

Do you have a link for this ute?

[Luke Plaizier]

Imagine not having the option of having a Turbo in the XR6.

XR8 deserves to have the S/C as well. In fact because the R&D is already done, an XR8 + S/C would cost LESS to develop than an NAV8.

I wouldn't buy a new XR8 without an S/C, let's put it that way.


Lukeyson

[Rodge]

Its an interesting conflict of interest. Ford will cost themselves (through their 49% shareholding in FPV) some sales of the GS and some higher spec models in the FPV range, yet will receive 100% of proceeds from a NA 5.0 powered XR8.

Reading through the comments on the interview with the Ford guy posted earlier, I think its a given an XR8 will make a return with FG2. The only question in my mind is will it be with the SC V8 or NA version ?

I'd bet it'll happen with a NA 5.0, cheaper and less complicated and more differentiation to FPV product. FPV will probably respond by badging their cars with more accurate crankshaft numbers. Future of GS ?, crikey flip a coin on that one...

[KuRT12]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Its an interesting conflict of interest. Ford will cost themselves (through their 49% shareholding in FPV) some sales of the GS and some higher spec models in the FPV range, yet will receive 100% of proceeds from a NA 5.0 powered XR8.

Reading through the comments on the interview with the Ford guy posted earlier, I think its a given an XR8 will make a return with FG2. The only question in my mind is will it be with the SC V8 or NA version ?

I'd bet it'll happen with a NA 5.0, cheaper and less complicated and more differentiation to FPV product. FPV will probably respond by badging their cars with more accurate crankshaft numbers. Future of GS ?, crikey flip a coin on that one...

Don't forget where the shells of FPV's come from.

So FPV selling well not only benefits FoA from their investments, but also from more shells being sold.

[V8UTE]

I still think there is a place for the FPV GS if Ford reintroduce the XR8 with the NA engine. At the moment I have a BF XR8 ute with leather(great ute)and I will be looking at a GS ute even if there is XR8 available. In my opinion all it will take to satisfy me in a GS is the blown engine and a DECENT set of rims and lower ride height stance to make it look different to an XR8 and FPV exhaust note. Those GS stripes can be binned in my opinion unless they can do something better and I will option leather and premium interior.

As for the stripe I think they have hit the nail on the head with the new black edition..it actually has supercharged in the stripe. Just put the lower part of the stripe with "supercharged" on the GS and the full hockey stick one that runs up the front gaurd with the power figure on the GT. It will differentiate from an XR8, look like its bigger FPV stablemate but not go quite as far.

I dont need a silly wing on the back of a ute or the brembo's. I just need something that little bit special with that good engine, rims and sound that feels like nice place to sit that I will use as a work ute

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Imagine not having the option of having a Turbo in the XR6.

XR8 deserves to have the S/C as well. In fact because the R&D is already done, an XR8 + S/C would cost LESS to develop than an NAV8.

I wouldn't buy a new XR8 without an S/C, let's put it that way.


Lukeyson

Its nothing to do with the development cost and everything to do with the parts cost.

Edit: If you want an XR8 with a Supercharger, buy a GS!!

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by V8UTE

I still think there is a place for the FPV GS if Ford reintroduce the XR8 with the NA engine. At the moment I have a BF XR8 ute with leather(great ute)and I will be looking at a GS ute even if there is XR8 available. In my opinion all it will take to satisfy me in a GS is the blown engine and a DECENT set of rims and lower ride height stance to make it look different to an XR8 and FPV exhaust note. Those GS stripes can be binned in my opinion unless they can do something better and I will option leather and premium interior.

As for the stripe I think they have hit the nail on the head with the new black edition..it actually has supercharged in the stripe. Just put the lower part of the stripe with "supercharged" on the GS and the full hockey stick one that runs up the front gaurd with the power figure on the GT. It will differentiate from an XR8, look like its bigger FPV stablemate but not go quite as far.

I dont need a silly wing on the back of a ute or the brembo's. I just need something that little bit special with that good engine, rims and sound that feels like nice place to sit that I will use as a work ute

I don't mind the stripe on the side of the GS's, I just don't like the stripes on the Bonnet, I also think they should be a delete option like with the GT, with badges replacing the stripes.

I agree on the wing and brembo's to an extent, personally I think they should be available as an option for the people that do want them, its not like FPV don't have them in stock anyway.

[BrisVegas]

My bet is that it will be the Coyote N/A 5.0 and that it will come out with FG2 in the new year. $50k thereabouts. Perfect. Bring on the G8E too!

GS and GT will then be freed up as the performance models. Judging by the Black Edition changes, FPV are about to take the 'P' a bit more seriously. Good stuff.

[FPV GTHO]

I dont see XR8 going with an NA engine. I dont think its as simply plug and play as some people suggest, and i dont think the supercharged engine is potentially twice as much as the NA as some other posted figures would suggest.

Leave XR6T to challenge SS as i dont see how Ford will push either the NA or SC V8 into a $45K package, put the GS engine into the XR body with the turbo intake and exhaust with the luxury pack interior and sell that for $50K and give the GS the same bodykit and brakes as F6.

[Professor Farnsworth]

i don't know if it's been mentioned yet as i haven't read the entire thread but the other possibility is with the introduction of FG2, the FPV range may increase in power, (possibly due to a FMC) to let's say:

GT/GTP etc:345kw
GS: 325kw

which would leave a sensible window open for the current GS spec non inter-cooled 315kw miami to drop straight into the XR8. Then with the possibility of a GT-H, there would be a huge range in power figures to choose from.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I dont see XR8 going with an NA engine. I dont think its as simply plug and play as some people suggest, and i dont think the supercharged engine is potentially twice as much as the NA as some other posted figures would suggest.

Ok then.
$6999 per engine minus whatever discount they get due to purchasing wholesale
+ Import duty & 10% GST
+ Transport Costs
+ Supercharger (lets say $4000 (i'm making rough guesses off CAPA site & Ford Racing site))
+ Rebuild Costs
+ Rebuilt Parts - Conrods & Pistons etc

If anything double the cost of the N/A engine is probably conservative, or do you disagree? Remember they have to build in a bit of room for make up for warranty claims and profit as well, or arent they allowed to make money?

Leave XR6T to challenge SS as i dont see how Ford will push either the NA or SC V8 into a $45K package, put the GS engine into the XR body with the turbo intake and exhaust with the luxury pack interior and sell that for $50K and give the GS the same bodykit and brakes as F6.

The GS is already a GT/FPV engine in an XR body, as far as I can tell its just about the same spec as an XR6 if you purchase without options. Add a luxury pack interior and it'll go up in price, not down!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Ok then.
$6999 per engine minus whatever discount they get due to purchasing wholesale
+ Import duty & 10% GST
+ Transport Costs
+ Supercharger (lets say $4000 (i'm making rough guesses off CAPA site & Ford Racing site))
+ Rebuild Costs
+ Rebuilt Parts - Conrods & Pistons etc

If anything double the cost of the N/A engine is probably conservative, or do you disagree? Remember they have to build in a bit of room for make up for warranty claims and profit as well, or arent they allowed to make money?



The GS is already a GT/FPV engine in an XR body, as far as I can tell its just about the same spec as an XR6 if you purchase without options. Add a luxury pack interior and it'll go up in price, not down!!

PLUS $10,000,000++ to engineer a whole new engine type to comply with AUSTRALIAN design rules.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by flappist

PLUS $10,000,000++ to engineer a whole new engine type to comply with AUSTRALIAN design rules.

I was hoping that bit would be obvious enough given what a big deal they made about the 40 Million they spent not so long ago. But given the comments people seem to be making where they keep expecting something for nothing, maybe I shouldn't expect that.....

40 Million over 5000 cars (1000/year) needs to make $8000/car just to recoup the initial investment.

If they could sell 2000/year (doesn't look like happening?) they would still need to make $4000/car.

[FPV GTHO]

I dont know the numbers FPV work on, so i'm not going to assume. What i do know though is they dont sell for what they have too, they sell for what they can get away with.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I dont know the numbers FPV work on, so i'm not going to assume. What i do know though is they dont sell for what they have too, they sell for what they can get away with.

My last couple of posts are probably conservative if anything.

Oh, and guess what.

and i dont think the supercharged engine is potentially twice as much as the NA as some other posted figures would suggest.

Thats an assumption, an assumption that is most likely very wrong.

Look up the numbers I did. Then divide 40 million by the number of V8 engined cars FPV have averaged in sales over the last few years, the numbers might explain FPV's prices a bit.