Breaking News: Holden to cease manufacturing in Australia in 2017

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Maybe you need to spend some of your money on buying a clue.

People who have had 20+ years of experience will be getting redundancies in 6 figures. Who in their right mind would walk away now and get nothing, especially those over 50 years of age who will probably never get another job bar some trivial part time crap. And i'll bet both Ford and Holden have a hell of a lot of workers who are in that boat with decades of experience and an age that employers don't want to touch.

Funny I don't remember saying they should walk away from their job right now, but hey if that's your conclusion I must have typed that right? With the redundancy packages they're given and the after termination that's plenty of time to look for a new job. Most can only wish they got a years wage for simply turning up to work repeatedly.

Originally Posted by Bill M

My bad! Not every one can understand the benefits of a balanced economy.

A balanced economy with 20 billion different career choices is preferable but face reality we're too small and expensive for that kind of economy/job market. You can either stick your head in the sand and dream about a fantasy Australia that has a population big enough to be a global player or face reality and realise there's still plenty of jobs out there, they just wont fall into your lap. But its easier to sit back and do nothing than go out and get a new job.

[ryeman]

^^^^the conservative government of Canada is happy to support their manufacturing of vehicles at a rate >5 times as much. In comparison we have always been 'pure'.
So much for 'socialism'!

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by cheap

Here is my take.



Instead the ex-government threw billions dollars of money (our money) at Ford/GMH and now don't have much tangible to show for all those dollars. In simple terms the Australian Government money was re-routed back to the USA as profits.

Socialism at its best, the system works well as long as someone's money keeps it all going, you could tell this was not going to end well (and it hasn't).

Not billions but in fact for every tied dollar we got ~$6 back.
Tens of thousands employed and paying taxes as opposed to being unemployed and a much greater burden on the taxpayer, but hey slagging off the ALP seems to be populist approach to a critical point in this nations future.
Keating and Button did the hard yards reforming Australia and the last govt had to deal with the poisoned chalice ie the GFC.

[BroadyFord]

Update:

Holden help sits in neutral

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1226778262154#

THE Abbott government is refusing to budge on its timetable for its car industry assistance plan as it awaits the delivery of a draft Productivity Commission report late next week before deciding its next move.

The government is holding firm as General Motors continues to weigh its options on the future of Holden's Adelaide car plant. The Weekend Australian reported that GM had postponed an announcement it would close Holden, giving the Australian carmaker a last-minute reprieve.

The Australian understands that Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane has been assured by Holden that no decision has been taken on the future of the plant.

Mr Macfarlane called the review of car industry assistance after it emerged that the future of Holden's South Australian manufacturing operations was in doubt because of a high Australian dollar and falling sales.

Mr Macfarlane has signalled he wants to help the carmaker, but is awaiting the report of

the Productivity Commission inquiry.

The inquiry, among other things, is expected to compare the amount of assistance provided to the car industry by other governments around the world.

Tony Abbott has toughened his rhetoric on industry handouts. On Friday, the Prime Minister warned that "the lesson of history here and abroad is that in the end not even governments have an endless supply of money to prop up businesses which are inefficient and unprofitable".

His comments came as the government faces demands for car industry assistance and also help for Qantas.

Opposition industry spokesman Kim Carr said yesterday the government was caught in a factional row over whether to provide assistance to the car industry.

He said the free-market fundamentalists in the government were fighting harder not to grant assistance after failing to have their way in the GrainCorp decision.

"They are oblivious that an impending catastrophe could be avoided. Hundreds of families are about to be sacrificed on the alter of economic fundamentalism."

With Holden's future unclear beyond 2016, the federal government could refuse to hand over the $275 million industry assistance package it promised to Holden in March.

The aid was dependent on the company building two new cars in Australia and continuing manufacturing at its Elizabeth plant for the next decade.

The South Australian government could also cancel a $50m funding pledge to support Holden, which includes industry assistance for component makers.

The additional funding agreement, which is contingent on the retention of jobs, is still under negotiation with Holden.

Premier Jay Weatherill yesterday refused to comment on whether he would be speaking to Holden executives in coming days or whether he had had assurances from the company to continue manufacturing in Adelaide.

"The state government has committed to providing $50m in assistance to Holden," Mr Weatherill said.

"We are well advanced with negotiating the details, but Holden has indicated that this cannot be concluded until negotiations between Holden and the federal government have been completed."

[BHDOGS]

gov infighting a leader who fails to act sounds familiar

[BroadyFord]

But...

Less than $150m more a year to keep Holden, says Kim Carr

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...208-2yze8.html

The Abbott government has confidential documents that show it would cost less than $150 million extra a year to keep Holden in Australia until 2025, former industry minister Kim Carr says.
For $300 million extra a year, the government could ensure Holden, Toyota and more than 160 automotive parts manufacturers stayed in Australia, according to confidential advice taken to the Rudd cabinet in July.
Senator Carr says the cabinet documents were drafted by senior officials in the Department of Industry and Innovation. This was the basis of Labor's election policy.
The claim comes as a dominant group of Coalition ministers says there is nothing that can be done to keep Holden in Australia because the company has made up its mind and ''doesn't want to be saved''.
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The exact amount agreed to in the previous government's Holden deal has not been made public, and Senator Carr said he would not breach confidences by revealing it. But it was ''less than half'' of the $300 million extra a year required to keep the entire car industry in Australia until 2025, he said.
''There's absolutely no doubt that departmental officials … know the detail of the amounts required to satisfy the business case for General Motors Holden to stay in Australia,'' he said.
After the Abbott government took office in September, Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane would have been briefed on negotiations in which Holden management had agreed to stay in Australia until 2025, build a new Cruz and a new Commodore and invest a further $1 billion, Senator Carr said.
Asked whether Mr Macfarlane had seen the documents including the Holden deal, a spokeswoman told Fairfax Media ''the advice the minister receives is confidential''.
A senior Liberal source with close connections to the automotive industry said it was his understanding Senator Carr's $300 million figure was correct, and would keep Holden, Toyota and more than 160 automotive parts suppliers in Australia.
If the Abbott government wanted to secure the car industry's future until at least 2025, it would need to restore the $500 million it cut from the automotive assistance fund and commit to $300 million a year from 2016, the source said.
Mr Macfarlane has been trying to convince his cabinet colleagues to agree to extra funding for the car industry but so far has been overwhelmed by economic ''dries'' who believe the government should stop giving endless ''blank cheques'' to automakers.

[1TUFFUTE]

Both my brothers lived overseas for along time. They came back and within a week one was workin for bunnings as a team IT leader...the other the head gardener at a resort. If I pick out my mates that are sincerely hard workers, there are even more examples. Anyone who can't find work simply needs to retrain or look harder. If your given a heads up years in front....well that's the best deal I could think of!

[1TUFFUTE]

Both my brothers lived overseas for along time. They came back and within a week one was workin for bunnings as a team IT leader...the other the head gardener at a resort. If I pick out my mates that are sincerely hard workers, there are even more examples. Anyone who can't find work simply needs to retrain or look harder. If your given a heads up years in front....well that's the best deal I could think of!

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

gov infighting a leader who fails to act sounds familiar

PETA CREDLIN is still making up her mind, she's the one running the country.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Not billions but in fact for every tied dollar we got ~$6 back.
Tens of thousands employed and paying taxes as opposed to being unemployed and a much greater burden on the taxpayer, but hey slagging off the ALP seems to be populist approach to a critical point in this nations future.
Keating and Button did the hard yards reforming Australia and the last govt had to deal with the poisoned chalice ie the GFC.

So the more the government spends the more it gets back, is that why the former government accrued the nearly $400 billion dollar debt because as a nation we're actually $2.4 trillion better off - pure socialist genius.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by cheap

So the more the government spends the more it gets back, is that why the former government accrued the nearly $400 billion dollar debt because as a nation we're actually $2.4 trillion better off - pure socialist genius.

Oh dear!

The whole financial industry gets a leg-up by way of negative gearing, dividend imputation, super tax shelter for otherwise wealthy individuals.
As for the so called massive debt it was an investment in avoiding massive unemployment, not to mention a run on the banks, caused by the GFC.
Have you not noticed that we were barely touched and maintained our AAA credit rating, something v few other countries managed.
PETA CREDLIN certainly appreciates your point of view however.

If the wages were reduced by the equal of paye tax the workers would at least not be on the dole, it seems most think workers on the production line are overpaid bludgers.

[BlueOvalPrint]

There is another extract from the article that Broadyford linked to that says a lot about where this is at:

Ministers continue to give anonymous briefings to journalists to say Holden has decided to leave.
"My understanding is that Holden long ago decided to leave," one said. "They are just playing a game now, just trying to manage their PR.''
Another said Holden's management was "full of it". "They don't want to be saved. If they were serious they would be making serious attempts to talk to the PM and Ian Macfarlane. They haven't."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...#ixzz2mvTS63xP

[johnydep]

It will be a very sad day if Holden shut the doors. I even put my money where my mouth is & went out and ordered a VF SS-V two weeks ago, knowing that Holden may close. http://news.drive.com.au/drive/new-c...115-2xlfl.html (model and colour previewed).

However, we can not keep burning money without a long term plan. It hasn't worked in the past and it won't work in the future - Mitsubishi & Ford announced their closure dates before the ink had dried on the government (tax payer) cheque.

[XWGT]

They're gone, as are Toyota
I think its time to begin planning for the inevitable now. We have around 2 years to transition it so I think the sooner we start the better.

Overall my take on it is this. The global competition will only ever get harder, not easier. The major auto makes think and act globally, hence the current movement of entire manufacturing bases into Asia and South America. This wont stop and it wont change. The geography might change a little in 15 years time but the net result for Australia is the same. We simply will never be a viable proposition for manufacturing for a global organisation that sells to global markets. It simply cannot be.

So take the subsidies that are being offered now and divert them into other industries and initiatives. Assist those who are effected to move and reskill.. Take a lot of pain for 5 years. Hopefully the worst will be over by 2018.

Move on, live long and prosper

[ryeman]

Holden is a vastly superior company compared to its parent GM who clearly have a paucity of world class products outside of Commodore and the final nail is the strength of the $A.
The flow on effect through the parts supply chain will be much worse than simply factory closures.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Oh dear!

The whole financial industry gets a leg-up by way of negative gearing, dividend imputation, super tax shelter for otherwise wealthy individuals.
As for the so called massive debt it was an investment in avoiding massive unemployment, not to mention a run on the banks, caused by the GFC.
Have you not noticed that we were barely touched and maintained our AAA credit rating, something v few other countries managed.
PETA CREDLIN certainly appreciates your point of view however.

If the wages were reduced by the equal of paye tax the workers would at least not be on the dole, it seems most think workers on the production line are overpaid bludgers.

You seem to have a problem with people making money (or at least have a problem with anyone who has more than you - it is called envy), or am I reading too much into the garbage that you've posted?

[Dr Smith]

If I get this straight, Holden wants’ to commit euthanasia but doesn’t want to be seen as making the decision itself before Christmas so as to avoid staff and public backlash The Fed. Government doesn’t want to say “well bugger off then we don’t have anymore money” to avoid a public backlash and a certain massive spike in unemployment throughout the whole supplier and manufacturing chain….

At least Ford had the balls to say no amount of government money was going to help because we build cheaper in our countries, let our staff have plenty of time to sort out their situations and not try and put the blame on anyone else.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Not just Auto companies that have signalled 2016 as a key year.
Do some research.

As a key year for what Pal. That Australia will have a recession in 2016 if Toyota and holden **** off. How much did you pay for that crystal ball? A recession is defined by 3 qtrs of negative growth an not car carpanies pulling out of Australia. Get real!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

As a key year for what Pal. That Australia will have a recession in 2016 if Toyota and holden **** off. How much did you pay for that crystal ball? A recession is defined by 3 qtrs of negative growth an not car carpanies pulling out of Australia. Get real!

Maybe you should do some research...or at least stop attacking people makeing simple quotes. He never said recession.....so there's no need to spin a big speel about it.

I for one can easily see how the flow on effect of 2or 3 car companies leaving in the same year could have very big effects on other industries.....from housing,trucking to politics.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by cheap

You seem to have a problem with people making money (or at least have a problem with anyone who has more than you - it is called envy), or am I reading too much into the garbage that you've posted?

.....and that's the simplistic, populist, ignorant attitude that has almost destroyed the middle class in the US.
Being retired, I shouldn't give a stuff either as in I'm alright jack and it's their fault.....greed is empowering eh?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Oh dear!

The whole financial industry gets a leg-up by way of negative gearing, dividend imputation, super tax shelter for otherwise wealthy individuals.
As for the so called massive debt it was an investment in avoiding massive unemployment, not to mention a run on the banks, caused by the GFC.
Have you not noticed that we were barely touched and maintained our AAA credit rating, something v few other countries managed.
PETA CREDLIN certainly appreciates your point of view however.

If the wages were reduced by the equal of paye tax the workers would at least not be on the dole, it seems most think workers on the production line are overpaid bludgers.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by ryeman

.....and that's the simplistic, populist, ignorant attitude that has almost destroyed the middle class in the US.
Being retired, I shouldn't give a stuff either as in I'm alright jack and it's their fault.....greed is empowering eh?

More nonsensical ramblings, I'm not surprised

[ltd]

Originally Posted by cheap

More nonsensical ramblings, I'm not surprised

Go easy, we've found the one Few-facts subscriber in Australia.
Geez, I hope he doesn't have shares in it

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by cheap

More nonsensical ramblings, I'm not surprised

Nonsensical ramblings?? How hilarious. Every reply you've given to ryeman has been utterly bereft of any sort of content, argument, or any evidence whatsoever of any kind of thought out position.

Just go back to writing letters into the Murdoch papers along with the other drones.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Nonsensical ramblings?? How hilarious. Every reply you've given to ryeman has been utterly bereft of any sort of content, argument, or any evidence whatsoever of any kind of thought out position.

Just go back to writing letters into the Murdoch papers along with the other drones.

Thanks, I was starting to wonder.......

[ryeman]

One day when the $A resumes it's US 70c position will we wonder if only......

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Maybe you should do some research...or at least stop attacking people makeing simple quotes. He never said recession.....so there's no need to spin a big speel about it. Why not ask for clarification before you act like a ******

I for one can easily see how the flow on effect of 2or 3 car companies leaving in the same year could have very big effects on other industries.....from housing,trucking to politics.

Originally Posted by mr smith

2016 recession, guaranteed.........

Ok Man. http://www.opsm.com.au
If you need help reading, they will help.

[Fordman1]

10... 9 ... 8 ..... 7 .......


Thread closed ?