Should the Australian flag be changed?

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

the flag was made when we were still very much a british based colony/country. that is why it has a british flavour to it. why change for the sake of it - and since all of the designs that take away those horrible british colours look like a patchwork quilt, why would we need to change it. and of course in 20 years time it would be need to change again, because the new generation of australians would not like it

Cos we keep hearing how mature and multicultural we are.
How much a part of the region we are, not just a far flung colony that the Poms use to test bombs in or swell their armed forces when they need to.

That if we want to be taken more seriously on the world stage we need our own head of state and own flag.

[95falcon]

Originally Posted by |||

looks tops

Thats disgusting!

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Oh I see... what you say is serious and must be the 'be all and end all' of the argument, so much so that you declare an 'end of thread' after your sermon. However other peoples opinions are a joke. :

You then conclude by saying what I say anyway.

Yep. Sorry the flag doesnt represent you and your family.
Do you believe you're more 'Australian' than everyone else and need a flag which you believe embodies this?
I'm still failing to see why you believe the Australian flag does not embody the spirit of the Australian people?

From what I've read from you specifically, I'd be willing to say you think the flag is an insult to you and your family. Am I on the right track?
You stated that "is it not 'Un Australian' to limit peoples freedom of speech and opinions?"
Thats very true. What do you call un-Australian?
Wouldnt be wanting to undermine one of the single most recognisable images in the world, which just happens to represent the country you and your family are living in, would it?

No, of course not.

Its not a privilege to have the opportunity to live in Australia, to raise a family in Australia.
At all.
Go try it somewhere else if you're feeling unwanted.

:togo:

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The same could be said with the Union Jack, couldn't you say?

How many people does the Union Jack represent? It certainly doesn't represent me and my family.

I would be more inclined to argue that a flag represents the nation, rather than the people, and you can argue that the Aboriginal flag, while representing a people, also depicts a natural setting.

This is a topic that can never be resolved without offending someone of course.

Cheers.

We are a democracy and the Union Jack still represents the majority of the people in this country who have Anglo-Celtic ancestry.

As well as this we are still an English speaking Parliamentary Democracy with a legal system based on adversarial British common law. If we were a stone aged nomadic society based on tribal law than the Aborigonal flag would be applicable but we are no we are a modern Western democracy. Maybe instead of the Union Jack we use a symbol of our Roman heritage:

[img]https://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vexilloid_of_the_Roman_Empire.png[IMG]

[chevypower]

Society no longer has enough common sense to come up with a new flag, I think others have said it best regarding today's political correctness gone mad. They will try to please everyone, which you can't do, so it's never going to happen or they are going to tick off the majority. So don't do it - despite, I would have liked to see Australia become a republic. I'm starting to think maybe the world needs some good old tradition as an anchor in today's society. Not because of a monarchy, but because if you change the flag, then watch everything else get screwed when a few people start questioning other traditions. Just a thought.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by sleekism

We are a democracy and the Union Jack still represents the majority of the people in this country who have Anglo-Celtic ancestry.

As well as this we are still an English speaking Parliamentary Democracy with a legal system based on adversarial British common law. If we were a stone aged nomadic society based on tribal law than the Aborigonal flag would be applicable but we are no we are a modern Western democracy. Maybe instead of the Union Jack we use a symbol of our Roman heritage:

[img]https://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vexilloid_of_the_Roman_Empire.png[IMG]

Arent the numbers getting smaller yearly though?
More Aussies born overseas and born from different cultures?

Dont Canada, South Africa and some other nations have the same system of law and have changed theirs.

Well the Romans controlled England for a while so why not.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by 95falcon

Thats disgusting!

Yep. Sorry the flag doesnt represent you and your family.

I do look forward to you showing me where I say I would like a flag that represents myself and my family.

Originally Posted by 95falcon

Do you believe you're more 'Australian' than everyone else and need a flag which you believe embodies this?

Nope.. again, for you to come to this conclusion I must have said or represented that I'm 'more Australian' than others. Show me where.

Originally Posted by 95falcon

I'm still failing to see why you believe the Australian flag does not embody the spirit of the Australian people?

What rubbish. I didn't start this thread, I voted and replied to it. Perhaps I went against the forum rules?

Originally Posted by 95falcon

From what I've read from you specifically, I'd be willing to say you think the flag is an insult to you and your family. Am I on the right track?

So off track your comment had derailed.... what you have assumed is an insult to me.

Originally Posted by 95falcon

You stated that "is it not 'Un Australian' to limit peoples freedom of speech and opinions?"
Thats very true. What do you call un-Australian?

Irrelevant... I don't have a pre-defined list. When I see it I know.

Originally Posted by 95falcon

Wouldnt be wanting to undermine one of the single most recognisable images in the world, which just happens to represent the country you and your family are living in, would it?

No, of course not.

What rubbish. What was this thread about again? Suggesting an alternate design for the flag is undermining this country? A bit precious don't you think?

Originally Posted by 95falcon

Its not a privilege to have the opportunity to live in Australia, to raise a family in Australia.
At all.
Go try it somewhere else if you're feeling unwanted.

What is this all about?? I have NFI on a reply to this one. Perhaps we are becoming a communist country, where any discussion against the status quo is frowned upon.

[Franco Cozzo]

The way this country is heading lately, if we changed the flag to represent the country, replace the union jack with two bogans fighting, with an obvious can of VB but with the logo censored and instead of the southern cross, have someones nanny there to represent how the government treats its people.

Also, Victoria's flag should have a massive speed camera on it.

[andycore]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

... Perhaps we are becoming a communist country, where any discussion against the status quo is met with severe brutality, jail time, and often executions.

Fixed.

It is HIGHLY doubtful that Australia will ever go in a communist or socialist direction, to suggest such is just ludicrous.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by sleekism

We are a democracy and the Union Jack still represents the majority of the people in this country who have Anglo-Celtic ancestry.

As well as this we are still an English speaking Parliamentary Democracy with a legal system based on adversarial British common law. If we were a stone aged nomadic society based on tribal law than the Aborigonal flag would be applicable but we are no we are a modern Western democracy. Maybe instead of the Union Jack we use a symbol of our Roman heritage:

[img]https://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vexilloid_of_the_Roman_Empire.png[IMG]

Fair enough, I do see where you're coming from.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The way this country is heading lately, if we changed the flag to represent the country, replace the union jack with two bogans fighting, with an obvious can of VB but with the logo censored and instead of the southern cross, have someones nanny there to represent how the government treats its people.

Also, Victoria's flag should have a massive speed camera on it.

[vik351]

For those that missed it, Check it out...!!!

http://media01.couriermail.com.au/mu...x.html?id=1411

vik... Makes me heart skip a beat. R.I.P. Thorpie

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Arent the numbers getting smaller yearly though?
More Aussies born overseas and born from different cultures?

Dont Canada, South Africa and some other nations have the same system of law and have changed theirs.

Well the Romans controlled England for a while so why not.

True that I think now only 60% of Australians have British ancestry but 90% of Australians have European ancestry which why perhaps Roman symbolism would be appropriate and of people of non-European or British ancestry how many are from Pakistan, South Africa, India or Singapore etc. all countries touched by the British empire.

I'm no good at this photo stuff can anybody do up a picture of the Australian flag with the vexilloid of the Roman empire over the union jack?

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by andycore

Fixed.

It is HIGHLY doubtful that Australia will ever go in a communist or socialist direction, to suggest such is just ludicrous.

WA - Law Society: New Stop and Search Laws to Bring WA Closer to Police State
http://www.lawsocietywa.asn.au/Annou....aspx?ID=24310

WA Nats resist:- THE Nationals are threatening to derail controversial police stop and search powers.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1225825019543
* The old; "if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear argument" types, read here:-
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...lue_of_pr.html


SA - ALP's dangerous AG gags the Internet, then backs down:-
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11287151
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/i...-1225825708827

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/victor...-1225826104175

Shall we go onto mad Conroy's net censor subject??

We tolerate much from the nanny state, but what happens when dear nanny turns to into a stark raving mad Stazi dumbarse??

Your opinion I fight for,- insofar the right to have and state it, and you have. I also choose to differ.


Edit - Not intending to take this thread off track, so perhaps another similar topic elsewhere....

[95falcon]

Yellow_Fextiva
1.

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

How many people does the Union Jack represent? It certainly doesn't represent me and my family.

You cant pick and choose. Either the flag as a whole does or does not 'represent' you.

2. You want to change the Australian flag to something you can relate to. It is the Australian flag, and has been for 109 years, but it must not be 'Australian' enough for you. Hence, you feel more Australian than everyone else who is happy with flag.

3. Wanting the flag changed means you think it is failing as a whole to be the image related with our country. Otherwise you would not want it changed.

4. Glad I insulted you. Your proposed changes to the flag are insulting.

5 + 6. You need to realise the flag has been around for 109 years, and is still doing a fantastic job as the symbol for our country. You want to replace it with other colours, patterns and images because you think it does not represent you and your family.

7. You can say what you want. Though if you want to put forward something, you need some substance to back it up. Not just 'hmm, I just dont like it"

[SB076]

I personally beleive the flag should stay as is for several reasons - the flag has served us well - we are from the southern hemisphere and we are (like it or not) still part of the Commonwealth. The flag might not represent everyones backgrounds but it never could. Also "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" I beleive Australia is a laid back and tolerant society - yes we have our faults as does every other nation. I am concerned that there seems to be an effort to keep changing Australia to suit certain individuals needs. A nation should not have to change to suit an individual.

The other reason why I beleive the flag should not be changed, imagine our current lot of politicans trying to come up with a new flag and the cost - It would probably end up costing every Australian so much money it simply isnt worth it and it would be far worse than what we currently have.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by 95falcon

....and is still doing a fantastic job as the symbol for our country....

With greater than 1 in 5 of the respondents to this poll calling for it to be changed I don't think I'd call it a "fantastic" job :

[xtremerus]

Why not a plain white flag.
Then we can pander to everyone.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Why not a plain white flag.
Then we can pander to everyone.

that is one option or we can have a basic white background with the flags of every country that is represented in our citizens. that way we can embrace all of the cultures that make up this country. of course we would have to leave some blank spaces in case we had another country represented for the first time. of course the union jack would need to be placed last or even taken off, because it has nothing to do with this countries history


i am not totally against changing it, but so far no one has come up with anything remotely worthy. and i do not see the point in spending millions of dollars to create something that looks like it was puked on

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

that is one option or we can have a basic white background with the flags of every country that is represented in our citizens. that way we can embrace all of the cultures that make up this country. of course we would have to leave some blank spaces in case we had another country represented for the first time. of course the union jack would need to be placed last or even taken off, because it has nothing to do with this countries history


i am not totally against changing it, but so far no one has come up with anything remotely worthy. and i do not see the point spending millions of dollars to create something that looks like it was puked on

Something like South Africa's or Canada's would be cool.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Something like South Africa's or Canada's would be cool.

taste is up to the individual but those two are boring examples of a flag that was changed. the only thing that makes them remotely worthy, is that the originals were so far off the mark to begin with


we are one of the few countries to have some degree of design in our flag - most have just two/three slabs of colours/shades - ours has symbols that actually mean something

[J.C.]

Best get in quick and buy one or two before they go out of fashion. I have plans to put a flag pole at home here and it will be the flag (along with a ford flag of course) that I will be flying even if it gets changed.

Call me a tradiationalist. I like our flag. Means something. At school every Wednesday morning 300 plus kids faced the flagpole, hats off and placed over our hearts, national anthem playing as the flag was slowly raised. It meant something to us kids cause when it rained our first thought was the flag needs to be removed cause it is getting wet.
Like many here, I grow up in this lucky country. I have also worked overseas in much worse conditions where survival for many is a daily battle. WE ARE A LUCKY NATION.
I'm proud of where Australians came and come from. Who cares if someone says you are a convict settlement. We have done alright in 200 plus years. Hold your head up Australia. We are doing ok. Stand up and be proud of your hertiage.
Oh. I failed to mention. I'm full blooded Sicilian yet I am proud to call myself a hard working Australian. My late father came here at 15 from Sicily and started cutting cane (by hand) pretty much as soon as he go here. He was a proud man yet grateful for the opportunities that this nation had to offer to the working man.
So I say leave it as it is. I'm proud of what this country has and can yet achieve.
To conclude my rant, I wish to end with three words that mean a great deal to to few Australians nowaday.

"Lest we forget"

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by J.C.

Best get in quick and buy one or two before they go out of fashion. I have plans to put a flag pole at home here and it will be the flag (along with a ford flag of course) that I will be flying even if it gets changed.

Call me a tradiationalist. I like our flag. Means something. At school every Wednesday morning 300 plus kids faced the flagpole, hats off and placed over our hearts, national anthem playing as the flag was slowly raised. It meant something to us kids cause when it rained our first thought was the flag needs to be removed cause it is getting wet.
Like many here, I grow up in this lucky country. I have also worked overseas in much worse conditions where survival for many is a daily battle. WE ARE A LUCKY NATION.
I'm proud of where Australians came and come from. Who cares if someone says you are a convict settlement. We have done alright in 200 plus years. Hold your head up Australia. We are doing ok. Stand up and be proud of your hertiage.
Oh. I failed to mention. I'm full blooded Sicilian yet I am proud to call myself a hard working Australian. My late father came here at 15 from Sicily and started cutting cane (by hand) pretty much as soon as he go here. He was a proud man yet grateful for the opportunities that this nation had to offer to the working man.
So I say leave it as it is. I'm proud of what this country has and can yet achieve.
To conclude my rant, I wish to end with three words that mean a great deal to to few Australians nowaday.

"Lest we forget"

lest u forget sei italiano.

[mrbaxr6t]

yellow festiva I read this back and you scream of the right to have freedom of speech and an opinion in this nation - yet you harshly ridicule any and all that have an opinion that differs to yours and you start slinging insults in general - what is it you actually want us all to let YOU make all decisions and we just live with it? if that is the case that goes completely against the democratic and free society that exists in Australia today that you so strongly harp on about. you use that to justify slamming any and all that have a differing opinion. I would quote but I don't think I need to.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by MethodX

lest u forget sei italiano.

Thanks for the reminder but I haven't forgotten. Cheers.

Someday I may go and visit his birthplace.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

yellow festiva I read this back and you scream of the right to have freedom of speech and an opinion in this nation - yet you harshly ridicule any and all that have an opinion that differs to yours and you start slinging insults in general - what is it you actually want us all to let YOU make all decisions and we just live with it? if that is the case that goes completely against the democratic and free society that exists in Australia today that you so strongly harp on about. you use that to justify slamming any and all that have a differing opinion. I would quote but I don't think I need to.

Please do quote actually. If you are ready to accuse then be ready to prove.

I don't think I have 'harshly ridiculed' anyone else's opinion. I may have disagreed, agreed or questioned.. but without ridicule.

Insults? Where have I insulted people? Where have I singled out someone and insulted them?

I do not want to make all the decisions.. nor do I want everyone else to live with what I said. Show me where I say that my reply is the be all and end all of the topic?

Show me who I have 'slammed' for having an alternate opinion to mine.

I had this sort of rubbish before on this topic and chose not to reply and maintain the childish slinging match.

You on the other hand... will not get off. I would like you to PLEASE QUOTE each and every thing you have accused me of doing.

You have used some strong words to describe my seemingly shocking behaviour against others here. I insist that you justify what you have accused.

[MethodX]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/im...109042#6821753

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/im...109084#6823377


The kiwi take on things, some of the flag designs are not bad.

[paule11]

We need to keep all the heritage we have the flag is part of that

[ernysp76]

Who's heritage is represented in the Australian Flag? It was born out of a competition run by a newspaper and sponsored by a tobacco company. It was only ever supposed to allow Australia an opportunity to decorate the British Blue Ensign (Australian & NZ flags without the stars).

These were the original rules:

http://www.flagaustnat.asn.au/reviewguidelines.php

It is more a symbol of the past and represents a time when Australia excluded people rather than included them and was subservient to England. With 50% of the population not able to have a say (women) and a further significant number not included in any votes despite them being here for at least 20,000 years you have got to ask who's heritage does it represent anyway? I'll tell you WASP males. Remember that the Blue Ensign is the actual flag we first went to war with in the Boer War and it and the Red Ensign were the dominate symbols of the Commonwealth during war.

The competition for a Nation Symbol for Australia therefore came down to finding a emblem which was acceptable to Britain for inclusion on the Blue Ensign, in the end it was not Australians who gave approval for the National Flag but England.

[WOLF]

Originally Posted by ernysp76

It is more a symbol of the past and represents a time when Australia excluded people rather than included them and was subservient to England.

Ah yes maybe they aught to revive some of those exclusion policies, could be handy these days...

I'd rather Hail England than bend over for boat people!

[|||]

Originally Posted by WOLF

I'd rather Hail England than bend over for boat people!

ironically many of the first (white) australians arrived as "boat people"