Unions urge Toyota workers to reject reforms

[2011G6E]

It appears though that in Toyotas case it wasn't the "unions", it was the actual court that disallowed a change to the agreement. I was always under the impression...and had read in agreements I have been part of...that it can be changed with "agreement of the employer and the employees" in any way. Still no idea why their agreement is so carved-in-stone and unchangeable at all in any way. Weird.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

No concessions will save Toyotas jobs - it is a smokescreen to show workforce as non cooperative . Toyota is looking for exit strategy and asking for what cant be given.

why can't it be given? they proposed keeping the planned wage increases already in the EBA, but trading off against productivity improvements elsewhere. wouldn't the logical position, if the productivity improvements cant be effectively met, counter with a wage freeze?

or don't the union want these people to remain employed?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

It appears though that in Toyotas case it wasn't the "unions", it was the actual court that disallowed a change to the agreement.

it was four shop stewards that went to court, not to have the agreement rejected, but to prevent Toyota even being able to take a vote.

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

BA GT-HO

You have no idea what your talking about.
RDO.s were introduced by business in the late 80.s early 90, when Australia was in a recession to cut costs and screw the worker.The unions agreed to the concept knowing that things would eventually improve
and would leave a void to be filled by hiring MORE workers.
So while the going was good everyone was happy.
Now that times are tough again business wants to blame someone else. The fact remains that if EVERY worker has RDO days then ALL BUSINESS is on a level playing field with each other.No business has an advantage.

I have worked in several other countries overseas and they don't need unions. Because they will walk of the job without them.
Even the chinese don't work on public holidays.
You should get your facts right before you shoot your mouth off

I am not even sure what point you are trying to make here.

I am talking from experience.

Where I work RDOs are set in stone. The whole place (3 shifts) takes them on the same day. The company tried moving our RDOs around but the union argued there were no flexible RDO provisions in the EBA so therefore that's that. Monday every 3 weeks the place is a ghost town, busy or not.

And as I have said before union heads always use 'shaft' or 'screw' so there you go, I know your true colours.

[BroadyFord]

Interesting fact I read today that Toyota has only ever closed one plant since it started making cars (in the US), and even that was only after joint venture partner GM pulled out!

Would be a sad and embarrassing indictment on our (and especially the AMWU's) part if they closed Altona.

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

I am not even sure what point you are trying to make here.

I am talking from experience.

Where I work RDOs are set in stone. The whole place (3 shifts) takes them on the same day. The company tried moving our RDOs around but the union argued there were no flexible RDO provisions in the EBA so therefore that's that. Monday every 3 weeks the place is a ghost town, busy or not.

And as I have said before union heads always use 'shaft' or 'screw' so there you go, I know your true colours.

Off course you don't know what point I am making.
Because you don't want to know
You are ONE EYED and anti union wether there right or wrong.

Just for the record an EBA is an agreement between the worker and the company. Why does your company now want to change the AGREEMENT?

Regardless of the reasons the LAW states the 2 parties must RENEGOTIATE
and then amend the AGREEMENT.
Why don't you go to your company and tell them you want a %50
pay rise tomorrow?????
I garrantee you they will shove the AGREEMENT in your face and say
sorry.
Bottom line is your COMPANY is trying to unlawfully breach an AGREEMENT

[2011G6E]

Sometimes unions are their own worst enemy you know...our union has very obviously sided with management sometimes, and strangely enough ex-union officials end up in nice jobs within the company. Makes you wonder sometimes...

[stazza]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Its foolish and moronic, I don't get the point in the union preventing any changes like this when it ends up costing them their jobs later on. They've seen Mitsubishi, Ford, Holden all end/announce the end of Aussie manufacturing. Toyota is the last one standing, loses several grand on every single Aussie made car sold here. Has to try and keep the parts industry afloat all by itself yet unions still want every penny.

Why is it its perfectly fine for employees to strike whenever they want to get something that isn't in the agreement they signed but if an employer trys to renegotiate its considered dasterdly and shut down?



Getting paid the standard wages Aussie get paid could never be 3rd world. I'm a sub contractor, the only benefit I get is superannuation that I've organised myself. I dont get holiday pay, sick leave, RDO's or anything else and you know what I survive perfectly fine. I live withing my means, if a person cant maintain their lifestyle if the have one day off work unpaid then they're living outside their means and its their fault not their works fault.

You're so gullible. No matter what the union does or does not do, Toyota will shut down regardless.

[Express]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Off course you don't know what point I am making.
Because you don't want to know
You are ONE EYED and anti union wether there right or wrong.

Just for the record an EBA is an agreement between the worker and the company. Why does your company now want to change the AGREEMENT?

Regardless of the reasons the LAW states the 2 parties must RENEGOTIATE
and then amend the AGREEMENT.
Why don't you go to your company and tell them you want a %50
pay rise tomorrow?????
I garrantee you they will shove the AGREEMENT in your face and say
sorry.
Bottom line is your COMPANY is trying to unlawfully breach an AGREEMENT

These types of negotiations always go better when the players use their heads and leave emotion outside the door.

I see no problem with what Toyota are trying to achieve if it means continued employment for Aussies. The alternative is not a good thought.

As far as enterprise bargaining agreements go, I had them through most of my working life.

I signed the first one in 1984.

I agreed to meet set key performance targets and they agreed to pay me a certain amount if I achieved those goals.

At no time did my signed agreements stop me from being able to renegotiate my EBA. In fact I was always very quick to point out I was more than achieving the set goals and it’s now time to renegotiate. I’ve never had a company not sit down and listen to what I have to say.

Neither have I ever had any qualms about selling myself to other employers to achieve what I want.

Nor did my employers have any hesitation in showing staff the door if they didn’t meet the targets.

It’s part and parcel with running a successful business.

Sometime it’s better to give as opposed to losing the lot.



.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by Express

These types of negotiations always go better when the players use their heads and leave emotion outside the door.


.

These types of threads too. (Referring to the general tone of the thread where its heading...to be clear)....

You know when a post starts with 'YOU' you're off to a bad start

[MAD]

Originally Posted by stazza

You're so gullible. No matter what the union does or does not do, Toyota will shut down regardless.

And so 'sticking it to them' is ok in the circumstance?

I would believe Toyota if they say it has good intentions, much more so than Ford or Holden.
Which one uses more local product?

[stazza]

Originally Posted by MAD

And so 'sticking it to them' is ok in the circumstance?

I would believe Toyota if they say it has good intentions, much more so than Ford or Holden.
Which one uses more local product?

You don't work for Toyota so you wouldn't know exactly how it is going down apart from the media reporting, which is more often that not completely inaccurate. I know as much as you as far as what Toyota is saying and what their intentions are, but the union wouldn't risk jobs for the sake of it. If those workers have no job how will they pay union fees?

As I said before, if you aren't in the industry in a union supported job then what would you know?

And how would you know you could trust Toyota? What are you basing this trust on? Have you worked for them? They are here to make money, no company will lose money and just pay workers at a loss out of good faith.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Express

At no time did my signed agreements stop me from being able to renegotiate my EBA. In fact I was always very quick to point out I was more than achieving the set goals and it’s now time to renegotiate. I’ve never had a company not sit down and listen to what I have to say.

+1

Productive employees are ASSETS, not liabilities. Employers take them seriously. If your employer doesn't take you seriously, what does that say about you...

[stazza]

Depends on the company really. Massive companies don't care, everyone is expendable.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by stazza

Depends on the company really. Massive companies don't care, everyone is expendable.

Not true. Every time a person is replaced they require induction, training and time to get to know the procedures. That is down time and it's not just the guy being replaced, it's the supervisor too as the new person is likely to ask a heap of questions and require more supervision.

However, if you're useless, they will take the hit to get someone that will do it better than you.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by stazza

Depends on the company really. Massive companies don't care, everyone is expendable.

Not entirely true.
It all depends on the company, your role and of course the type of person you are.
I work for a large company, around 4k+ employees in AU.
Yes we are expendable and can be replaced but the downtime, the loss of IP and valuable knowledge cannot be replaced easily. Therefore GOOD employees are nurtured and looked after.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by b0son

+1

Productive employees are ASSETS, not liabilities. Employers take them seriously. If your employer doesn't take you seriously, what does that say about you...

Stop living in your little fluffy fairytale. The only employees that are an asset are those willing to forgo our Australian conditions, bend over and take a Chinese bowl of rice up the backside as a form of weekly pay.

I have seen first hand many good men with great attitude and skillsets you would never achieve in 5 lifetimes be expended as if they were a casual new starter.

I cant speak of other corporations I know nothing of, but in this particular industry sector you really are just a number . Perhaps its just a multinational corp attitude.

[Danny]

I reckon these unions need to start providing literacy assistance so that their members may be able to articulate more eloquently their interesting and ever so intelligent points of view...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Yes we are expendable and can be replaced but the downtime, the loss of IP and valuable knowledge cannot be replaced easily.

Sounds like another industry I know of...ahem...

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Danny

I reckon these unions need to start providing literacy assistance so that their members may be able to articulate more eloquently their interesting and ever so intelligent points of view...

It seems you should also participate in the literacy assistance program.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by fte50

Stop living in your little fluffy fairytale. The only employees that are an asset are those willing to forgo our Australian conditions, bend over and take a Chinese bowl of rice up the backside as a form of weekly pay.

I have seen first hand many good men with great attitude and skillsets you would never achieve in 5 lifetimes be expended as if they were a casual new starter.

I cant speak of other corporations I know nothing of, but in this particular industry sector you really are just a number . Perhaps its just a multinational corp attitude.

I know of some of the corporations you speak of!
The multinational corporate mindset is here. The attitude has also spread to the smaller companies with 20 or less staff.
Some hardworking colleagues of mine would be laughing at the opinions on industry expressed by "commentators" here
Little Andrew Bolt clones under every rock.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by MAD

Not true. Every time a person is replaced they require induction, training and time to get to know the procedures. That is down time and it's not just the guy being replaced, it's the supervisor too as the new person is likely to ask a heap of questions and require more supervision.

However, if you're useless, they will take the hit to get someone that will do it better than you.

What crap! what sort of bubble wrap world do you live in?

[fte50]

Centrelink by the sounds of it

[MAD]

Originally Posted by fte50

It seems you should also participate in the literacy assistance program.

Nothing wrong with that sentence. It is expressing a purpose.

Originally Posted by Bill M

What crap! what sort of bubble wrap world do you live in?

So it's not down time when a new employee comes in? Do you mean they don't need a lot of training, or that things magically happen even though they don't know anything about the operation?

Originally Posted by fte50

Centrelink by the sounds of it

And here we go again.
It's pretty obvious you're only trying to get a bite to shut this thread down.

[AU1XLS]

Yes closure and warnings are looming
How about some constructive comments instead of the cheap childish digs at each other

[MAD]

Originally Posted by fte50

Stop living in your little fluffy fairytale. The only employees that are an asset are those willing to forgo our Australian conditions, bend over and take a Chinese bowl of rice up the backside as a form of weekly pay.

I have seen first hand many good men with great attitude and skillsets you would never achieve in 5 lifetimes be expended as if they were a casual new starter.

I cant speak of other corporations I know nothing of, but in this particular industry sector you really are just a number . Perhaps its just a multinational corp attitude.

What was the reason given for getting rid of those good men? Were they replaced?

Any company that does this, either made a judgement that the skills/experience weren't required in that position for daily business, or are completely stupid and will fail in time.

[AU1XLS]

Closed