Do you want Ford to be No.1 at all costs?

[R-Design]

Each month on the release of the latest VFACTS results there’s a spirited debate on Fords results as compared to GMH. Obviously the majority would like to see Ford topping the sales charts, but would we feel the same way about this if it meant serious changes to Ford’s product range & modus operandi?


Ford is currently restructuring its operations and under the ‘One Ford’ banner. There’s a move towards a single model range globally, with limited variations where profitable (Mustang & F-Series in the US). These actions are being undertaken in an attempt to emulate the success of Toyota, who builds reliable transport for the masses (automotive white goods).

How would you feel about Ford being the highest selling manufacturer in 2015 if it meant the following events transpired?

1. All Ford vehicles (except Falcon were soured through Asia) with limited local input.
2. Australian manufacturing scaled back (engine manufacture ceased).
3. Falcon based on GRWD platform designed in America (local input limited to cosmetics & packaging).
4. Falcon production limited to 4 & 6-Cylinder sedan variants.
5. FPV ceases V8 production (continues with alternative product).
6. The V8 Supercar formula continues without Ford backing.
7. Falcon Commercial range discontinued and replaced by Australian designed T6 Ranger.
8. Territory discontinued and replaced by US soured alternative (Flex / Edge / Explorer).

[Chopped]

Toyota sold their soul to be number 1.

Remember in the nineties they actually made some pretty cool cars (GT4 celica, twin turbo Supra , MR2's etc)

[JutroXR8]

Get rid of performance falcons, and I'd be forced to jump ship. It's as simple as that.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Toyota sold their soul to be number 1.

Remember in the nineties they actually made some pretty cool cars (GT4 celica, twin turbo Supra , MR2's etc)

But soul doesn't make money, the answers to ALL questions is money.

[Mr Hardware]

The falcon is a unique car and if you read up, it came to australia just to be another player not to squash the then no1, GMH. It's always been the characterful alternative to the bland mainstayer.

[Busted]

well I like to spend my money here at home in Australia.
I'd like my money to help me here in Australia.
I'd like my money to help others here in Australia.

So I went with "other"

If what you talk about should happen I will look for a way my money will help AUSTRALIA.

[divine_afg]

I will buy GT-P and F6
I also believe that future cars would be hard to mod due to climate, government and manufacturing advances in Tech even if we get way to bypass these it's not goin to be an easy excercise like today !

[Rodp]

I'd just want them to be profitable and solvent - and when they bring out a performance model that suits my needs and budget when I go car shopping - it'll be evaluated with a little bias.

The biggest problem I have with Ford is they've always offered the lowest trade deal on getting my bum into a new Ford (by a huge margin) - so the last 6 cars I've alternated between Ford and another marquis.

[alter_EGOXR]

if ford decides to follow the path of the toyota camry...ill be forced to cross over to the evil red....i think ford should take the current FG over to the USA...i reckon it will be a huge success!

[Fordman]

I'll always buy a Ford, no matter what. Toyota's cars still have some quality to them/and there based in Asia, thats why there top selling. I was recently reading an article on GM in wheels which shows there management doing exactly this and sacrificing the automobile for the business, in which the writer believes slowly drove them into the ground over 30 years. I can only hope Ford continue to make quality cars, and people wake up and buy them or else Fiesta, Focus and many more will become like Corolla's as such. Medium & Large cars will also become like camry's =[

[Falcman0o7]

Ford Ford Ford.

End.

[rag top]

I like competition, as it helps drive all manufacturers build better products to suit demand.

Demand helped bring back the V8 after it was axed in '82

[Elks]

As I've said a thousand times, you can't eat market share.

GM has been No1 for 70 years and still went broke.

I would rather Ford be number 3 and profitable and allow it to make make inovative exciting products, volume does not neccessarily mean profits. And they need to be profitable to go forward.

[Raptor]

Other, for the same reasons as these guys;

Originally Posted by Busted

well I like to spend my money here at home in Australia.
I'd like my money to help me here in Australia.
I'd like my money to help others here in Australia.

If what you talk about should happen I will look for a way my money will help AUSTRALIA.

Originally Posted by Elks

....
I would rather Ford be number 3 and profitable and allow it to make make inovative exciting products, volume does not neccessarily mean profits. And they need to be profitable to go forward.

I really couldn't care less if they are no.1.
I currently choose to drive a Ford because they make the best product in this country at this time.

[Swordsman88]

With all due respect to Boss315, in most ways i reject the premise of this poll. I voted 'other', because while i dont' doubt that some of what is set out in this 'hypoethical' may well transpire, the implication is not quite right for me. People assume that in order to be number 1, and as part of Ford's 'one ford' policy that in some way it will result in Ford Aus (and ford globally) 'selling out' the faithful.

In effect that Ford will become like toyota...sold their soul as was pointed out above. Fact is that One Ford is not about this at all. To my understanding Ford motor company, while yes beset by debt and pushing for economies of scale, is focussed on delivering what the customer wants. This includes econo cars, hybrids etc, but also heavy trucks, peformance cars and luxury items. The new F series, engine updates accross the entire Ford world and even projects like the coyote V8 all show Ford does not intend, nor do i think they require, a need to dumb itself down to be successful.

Alot of the reason for the poor sales of Ford Oz products is because of perception. Call it the aussie Holden thing, the conservatism of our society (toyota....) or whatever but fact is in this country ford has not got the positive name recognition it needs. We have the product, product that sells very well in Europe (fiesta/focus top sellers) and with GM and others being on the nose in the US, Ford is improving significantly there too. Hopefully the product, combined with inspired leadership (burela et al) will see a boost here, eventually at least.

Toyota has such a lacklustre reputation amongst those in know not because their cars lack soul (though they do), but because they are crap. Hell Hyundai has improved so much recently because they are out 'toyota-ing' toyota. If Ford puts cars in common platforms, rationlises engines and production sites it doesn't necessarily mean the end products are going to be rubbish. Ford invented the modern mass produced car....i think we can continue to design and build them better than Toyota.

In short, I dont' see why Ford should start making crap cars in order to improve sales....do you?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Other, for the same reasons as these guys;


I really couldn't care less if they are no.1.
I currently choose to drive a Ford because they make the best product in this country at this time.

And that is fair enough, but the problem I have with this argument is that today, with so many makes for consumers to choose from, being no 3 is like being number 10 not that many years ago. You just don't make or sell that many cars.

So the problem is even with much lower volumes and smart engineering you may make a profit, but it is still way below what you use to make and where do you get the money or incentive to make the next model? I don't think green lighting the FG was always a given and since then it hasn't set the market on fire. The Mazda 3 showing it up most months and the Commodore (for whatever reason) always well ahead.

So I don't think Ford will ever be number 1 in Australia again, because I don't think they have the cash or the business case to ask Detroit to support them doing that. An import only future in the middle rankings of car makers is the more likely outcome, long term. There are other incentives and politics within Ford to put its money and interest elsewhere in the world. Which is truly sad for Falcon and those who work at Ford Australia now.

The only real hope is that the Commodore Police cars will be a huge hit in the US and Ford US will be forced to resurrect Falcon export program plans as a "quick fix" to loosing the Police market there. It really isn't beyond the realm of possibilities that if the Commodore/Caprice does well in the US it will help the Falcon survive a while longer.

Dan

[xr6turbo2005]

some pretty out there "win at all cost" scenarios which i cant see ever happening.

- i'd say most fords are sourced elsewhere these days except for the falcon. as for local input, dont think Ford and any manufacturer that understands the Oz market and driving conditions would make the mistake of not having local input. (well id hope not i guess)

- GRWD platform. i think thats a given eventually for all manufacturers. it just makes economic sense especially with the advances in technology. im no mechanic, but from what i read, its no longer a case of build a car to this spec and you'll be able to option a different motor or box as each requires different systems that go with them - ECU, ABS, traction control etc. thats all before testing the safety aspects.

- FPV / V8's. who knows what the future of V8's will be in 5 yrs. so many factors that can influence this - global warming and alternative fuels, more efficient engines, global emissions etc etc. whatever happens, there will always be a market for performance vehicles and they'll use whatever is best at the time. after all a 4 cylinder vehicle these days pushes out for kw's then a 6 cyl of 10-15 yrs ago. A 2.5l XR5 has 166 kw, my old EF XR6 had 164 kw

- Territory - are you forgetting we had Explorers in Oz not that long ago.

[PHANTMXR6]

They should fix the after sales service as well, in my opinion.

[tezxr8man]

its not the 1st time falcon has been based on a platform from elsewhere, Look at the 70's the falcon was based on the mustang platform and the hardtops were developed here alongside the torino for the states, as long as we still get the falcon with aussie development involved and to be made here, the old clevelands out of the gt's up to the xd's were made here longer than the same motor in the states (aussie developed of course) if the falcon was based on the mustang again there would be no drama that i could see, think GT500 driveline with IRS how could that be bad?

[Bossxr8]

I heard Richard Parry Jones who used to be Fords vehicle dynamics engineering boss say it doesn't cost any extra to make a good handling car than it does a poor handling car.

So whats the point of making Fords drive like Toyotas? Last time I checked Falcon outsold both Aurion and Camry, probably nearly combined.

The reason Toyota are dominating the market is because they have a vehicle for every class. Where's Fords answer to the Landcruiser, Prado, Rav4 and all the other highly successful SUV/commercial vehicles Toyota sell. If Ford could match them in these areas and with a Ranger that was as popular as the Hilux then Ford would have a shot at No 1.

Ford can't even bring the Kuga here for christ sakes, it would be perfect as a RAV4 rival, and its a market thats worth entering, plenty of sales potential. Escape is dead in the water.

[Fairlane]

So hello to the general, for me.

Iam a fan of the powerful Australian Designed, Australian built family car. It just so happens that I prefer Fords take on the big Aussie family car.

As much as I think Ford has one of the best market lineups with their quality European cars. I want to see Ford keep their Australian heritage, otherwise they just become another car brand to me, and If I want an small efficient car, Mazda and Honda provide just as persuasive arguments. As for larger cars, if Ford drops their big aussie designed, aussie built family car, and Holden keeps the theirs, then ill be in a Commodore or a Statesman.

I like me Fords a lot, but brand loyalty isnt the biggest thing for me, hell Ive got a Ford, a Holden & a Chrysler (of sorts).

[Mark s]

As much as I am a Ford tragic. I want to see Ford producing a quailty car and not just going for number 1, selling cheap car and throwing on a badge.

I will always have a classic Ford in my garage. If I was to move away I think it would be Japanese, be it something like a Mazda or a Surbaru. In fact I wanted a Turbo Forrester, when I got my wife the BA II Turbo. Still the Turbo Falcon with the price and k's were to good to let go.

While I think it's great to be brand loyal, I think it is silly to be blinded and brand loyal and buying whatever rubbish is dished up to you.

[Mr Hardware]

So hello to the general, for me.

Iam a fan of the powerful Australian Designed, Australian built family car. It just so happens that I prefer Fords take on the big Aussie family car.
As for larger cars, if Ford drops their big aussie designed, aussie built family car, and Holden keeps the theirs, then ill be in a Commodore or a Statesman.

I like me Fords a lot, but brand loyalty isnt the biggest thing for me, hell Ive got a Ford, a Holden

Exactly the same for me. Well said good sir.

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

its not the 1st time falcon has been based on a platform from elsewhere, Look at the 70's the falcon was based on the mustang platform and the hardtops were developed here alongside the torino for the states, as long as we still get the falcon with aussie development involved and to be made here, the old clevelands out of the gt's up to the xd's were made here longer than the same motor in the states (aussie developed of course) if the falcon was based on the mustang again there would be no drama that i could see, think GT500 driveline with IRS how could that be bad?

The early Mustangs were actually based on the Falcon platform, as the Falcon started off as an American design. With the release of the XR Falcon, Ford referred to it as "Mustang bred" simply because of it's long bonnet, short boot styling, and then continued this with the "More, more Mustang" XT.

[R-Design]

I just want to say that this tread isn’t meant to be anti the ‘One Ford’ policy or the direction Ford Australia is taking but simply to get a sense of what peoples reactions to the changes would be, especially the enthusiasts which frequent AFF. Personally I think the changes being implemented will lead to a stronger model range globally and eventually profit for the organisation as a whole.

Having said that, I think it will also force Ford to concentrate on more core mainstream models. As mentioned earlier, that doesn’t mean they need to be boring, but it’s likely they’ll be trying to please a larger slice of the population.

It’s true to say Ford is currently releasing a number of exiting products, in particular I think we’re all waiting to see what the Coyote V8 means for the Falcon, but how much of this was in motion before ‘One Ford’? Ford has committed to the future of US only models such as the F-Series & Mustang which are highly profitable in the states, but where does that leave other outliers such as our Falcon.

Public brand perception is an issue with Ford in Australia. We all know Falcon should sell in greater quantities based on merit, but this won’t help Ford AU build a case for a new model. We’re already seeing Ford move to heavily update models rather than replace them completely. Territory is to receive a FG style update to sheet metal rather than a full top-hat redesign, and the FG was criticised on launch for not being ‘new enough’. Penny pinching means FG’s aren’t available with Lockable Fuel Caps, 20 Inch Wheels, or even a Sunroof option. It’s also becoming obvious that Ford US don’t see the potential for Falcon as compared to GM’s investment in Commodore. Rather than support a plan to replace the Crown Victoria PPV with the Falcon in the US they’d rather lose a potential 70,000 units per annum by supplying a FWD/AWD Taurus to the market.

I am excited by the prospect of the Diesel Territory, DI LPG Falcon, and believe the T6 Ranger will be a huge hit if marketed correctly. I think by 2011 the Ford range will be the strongest it’s ever been and more than a match for Toyota segment by segment.

My concern is the lack of value Ford AU seems to place on ‘Tribalism’, and the strength of the Falcon brand. Most companies would love to have people passionate about their products, but Ford seems oblivious or indifferent at best. I hope they don’t have to learn the message the hard way.

…& no offence taken Swordsman88, I always value your input.

[Dave R]

Profitability is the main thing, being "number one" is something for the fanboys to dream about. As long as Ford makes a local product that I like, I will buy it. Next best is Holden. If only Ford NA imported Australian models to the US under the Mercury brand - it would save alot of development dollars and Mercury could go from rebadging North American Fords to rebadging Australian Fords. But, when it comes to servicing and repairs etc, our unique australian models would be somewhat alien to them. Business wise, they should replace our models with American and European equivalents - no development costs, just import and sell (or assemble here and sell).

[tezxr8man]

is it so hard to market the falcon with aussie pride? its aussie, more so than any other car and its all ours how does holden get away with the aussie thing with a car that is half developed in the states for them as much as us? I think ford really have dropped the ball on that 1.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

is it so hard to market the falcon with aussie pride? its aussie, more so than any other car and its all ours how does holden get away with the aussie thing with a car that is half developed in the states for them as much as us? I think ford really have dropped the ball on that 1.

Holden advertise that they are Australian. Ford advertise that they have a useless marketing department who launched the all new Falcon with a bunch of fingers walking across the screen which was both lame and embarrassing. It's funny how the current Holden ads make V6 SIDI sound like Australian technology.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

is it so hard to market the falcon with aussie pride? its aussie, more so than any other car and its all ours how does holden get away with the aussie thing with a car that is half developed in the states for them as much as us? I think ford really have dropped the ball on that 1.

It's perception. I know it's a Ford forum, but the Ford badge will always be associated with Uncle Sam, The Red, White, and Blue etc whereas Holden's association is home grown.

I'm not saying that the cars are more Australian, but that's just the way I see it. If you were to ask a foreigner what car company they would think of if they thought of Australia most would probably say Holden.