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13-05-2010, 10:57 PM | #1 | ||
GT4.
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Another tragic air mishap. Its not a great year for commercial aviation, Especially Airbus. If this one is found to be aircraft fault (Airbus A330-200 "5A-ONG" - Delivered to Afriqiyah in September 09'), then Airbus will be bleeding. Apparently it came to rest 900m from the end of the runway within the airport perimeter, with no post crash fire. Its the third hull loss to date of an Airbus A330 where fatalities were involved. One 8 year old Dutch boy survived. RIP to those tragically killed in this incident. Lets hope the Libyan government provides full co-operation to investigators so the cause of this loss can be found. -Dan |
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14-05-2010, 11:40 AM | #2 | ||
LWBforME
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 373
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Yes, dreadful business. What are the reports saying actually happened? I thought I heard it broke up prior to touchdown?
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14-05-2010, 12:28 PM | #3 | ||
The Destroyer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 2,253
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Sole survivor, mabey he's unbreakable like Bruce wills in that horrible movie of the same name.
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14-05-2010, 01:23 PM | #4 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
The aircraft had touched down well before the runway... not broken up in the air. It was a low speed crash into the ground. More then likely witnesses possibly saw the plane bounce into the air after initial impact? Several news reports say different things, one inlcuded a witness saying it plowed through buildings at the airport perimeter. Another story say the weather was foggy, one said it was clear. One report says the ILS system at the airport was also reported faulty by prior landing aircraft. At the end of the day will have to wait what the accident investigation report reads. A sad day indeed for all families affected.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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14-05-2010, 02:55 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Miranda, NSW
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Airbus A330 - the modern day DC-10
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14-05-2010, 05:50 PM | #6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
To quote a phrase often used, but one is innocent till proven guilty. Most aircraft accidents (yes the majority) are cause by human error. A plane landing short of the runway has nothing to do with its make.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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14-05-2010, 06:18 PM | #7 | ||
Banned
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no fire = no fuel
just a guess... but every vid i've ever seen of a plane going down has ended in a spectacular fire ball |
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14-05-2010, 06:43 PM | #9 | |||
GT4.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,218
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Quote:
Unfortunately for Airbus its the timeframe of these incidents involving A330's that the media is over hyping now as a result of AF447 and the QF 330 that lost altitude over Perth. Its insane, I do not believe there is a thing wrong with the 330 Airframe, it's used in the A340 with little problems. Its media hype, and a willingness of people to point the finger with little knowledge. Apparently the Afriqiyah 330 was attempting a second landing. A take off Go around (I'm led to believe) is one of the most dangerous maneuvers a pilot can pull. I highly doubt then that this was a failure on the part of the aircraft. As these Airbus 330 "errors" have generally caused havoc during Cruising height in full AP mode. Of course this is speculation. I do believe that the runway that was being used was a non ILS runway as well... |
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14-05-2010, 06:50 PM | #10 | |||
Constant annoyance
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Quote:
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14-05-2010, 06:53 PM | #11 | |||
The Destroyer
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Quote:
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14-05-2010, 08:11 PM | #12 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
No fire doesnt mean no fuel... AVTUR is Kerosene. Difficult to ignite unless its a fine mist or compressed. Quote:
"They" allow anyone to fly "overthere" in Libyia.... Dumbest comment I heard all week....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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14-05-2010, 08:31 PM | #13 | |||
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Quote:
RWY09 has an ILS and RWY27 had a Localiser.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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14-05-2010, 09:26 PM | #14 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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If it aint Boeing,Im not going
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Quote: Originally Posted by XCPWSF Is there portable speed cameras? Because coming home from school I noticed a cop sitting on the corner, with some box with buttons and knobs, with wires running into one of the big gum trees. Just practicing with the Tazer on a Koala? |
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14-05-2010, 10:09 PM | #15 | |||
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Quote:
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15-05-2010, 12:16 AM | #16 | ||
Getting it done.....
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Some particularly silly comments so far in this thread. If you don't understand what you are talking about then best keep quiet IMO. Or at least be smart enough to ask those more knowledge to assist (bearing in mind this early on in the investigation there is little but conjecture).
Plenty of online resources out there just a google sweep away that will provide some useful discussion material to get started. Such as the issue of the runways in use at tripoli and the weather in this case.... the former raised by Jim Goose earlier....
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15-05-2010, 10:24 AM | #17 | ||
The Origional, The Best
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Darwin, NT
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from a well known rumour network (well, well known to pilots anyways)
* Approach was made at dawn, straight towards the rising sun (sea level sunrise 6:11LT) * Conditions were hazy, reported visibility on ground ~5000m, however in sunlit haze no more than ~2000m * Depending on actual time of accident (btw. 6:00-6:10LT) the aircraft made some or all of the approach in sunlight, possibly descending into earth shadow shortly before hiting the ground. * Impact position about 1.5km from threshold, wreckage field slightly right of centerline, in line with far end of approach lights. * Very fragmented wreckage suggests impact in unusual attitude, a wings level low descent approach speed impact on flat terrain with hardly any meaningful obstacles would not have resulted in such disintegration. * Based on above a likely scenario a sharp low level corrective bank when seeing approach lights resulting in a wingtip clipping ground (or buildings). Not my own writing, but a quick summary. Sword, looks like they were using RWY09 at the time, but Tripoli is well known for having faulty navaids
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15-05-2010, 10:50 AM | #18 | |||
Constant annoyance
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Quote:
and it's spelt LIBYA buddy.
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15-05-2010, 12:22 PM | #19 | |||
Getting it done.....
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Location: Brisbane
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Quote:
More concerning is the dodgy equipment at tripoli (described by several pilots at 'dodgy even by african standards'). Given that i'd take a higher vis, ILS RW27 over the sketchy vis wobbly NDB approach on RW09 no? Crash does seem wierd given the separation of the aircraft. low energy impacts on approach (when level) generally 'pancake' the aircraft and it ends up reasonably good RE survivability esp with the lower fuel levels for an ariving craft. Could be overbanked and stalled out (sideslip low to the ground little room for error) trying to get back online (made worse by spatially disorientating sun haze) or nicked a wingtip as you say. Easy to forget how long those wings are especailly on the very light airbi.....they respond to sidestick (roll) inputs very quickly indeed. If it did rip off the wing and (possibly) cartwheel then its a miracle anyone survived frankly....
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Dynamic White 1995 EF XR6 Auto Now with: Pacemaker 4499s Lukey Catback Exhaust Chrome BA XR-style tip Airdam Mounted CAI with modified (bellmouth) airbox Trip Computer install KYB shocks Bridgestone Adrenalin tyres Coming Soon: Exhaust Overhaul..... |
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15-05-2010, 01:38 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
If you were trying to be sarcasic before, please make sure you add a smiliey as judging by some of the other idiotic responces on here one can only assume you were carrying on with the norm.... Thank you for your spelling assistance.....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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15-05-2010, 10:11 PM | #21 | ||
The Origional, The Best
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Darwin, NT
Posts: 709
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Sword, possibly the flight crew noticed they were close to the ground and attempted to initiate a G/A. I'm willing to bet that an A330 loaded with pax is going to take a bit to arrest the descent and begin climbing. I wonder if the flight crew have manually initated the G/A as opposed to hitting the TOGA, might have dropped a wing causing it to clip the ground/buildings?
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Current Mods 2.5" Red Back Exhaust | C2R Grill | Brumby Front Bar & Driving Lights | 18" Optic Blacks | Tickford Intake | Blue Momo Shifter Knob & Wheel | BA Scuff Plates with Ford Metal Inserts Future Mods Lowerage on KingSprings Lows | Engine...Period | Sounds System I Use And Recommend F1 Tyres And Wheels On The Gold Coast Proud Supporter of Beat The Heat (NT)
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15-05-2010, 10:53 PM | #22 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Can you mention what some of the acronyms are in your posts for those not versed in aviation terms please ;)
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15-05-2010, 11:32 PM | #23 | ||
The Origional, The Best
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Darwin, NT
Posts: 709
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Pax = Passengers
G/A = Go Around (aborted landing) TOGA = Take Off / Go Around = A switch on the throttles in the cockpit that will automatically set take off power and i believe in some instances in some aircraft will also begin configuring the aircraft for the go around. Takes a massive load off the flight crew allowing them to focus on other items eg why they had to abort the landing in the first place.
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Current Mods 2.5" Red Back Exhaust | C2R Grill | Brumby Front Bar & Driving Lights | 18" Optic Blacks | Tickford Intake | Blue Momo Shifter Knob & Wheel | BA Scuff Plates with Ford Metal Inserts Future Mods Lowerage on KingSprings Lows | Engine...Period | Sounds System I Use And Recommend F1 Tyres And Wheels On The Gold Coast Proud Supporter of Beat The Heat (NT)
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16-05-2010, 07:47 AM | #24 | ||
Banned
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So of the people in the know. Who here actualy flies and what?
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16-05-2010, 09:05 AM | #25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Some are pilots, some are Lame's, some are enthusiasts, doesn't matter .I am learning from them. I admit I also have difficulties with the "jargon" .
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16-05-2010, 09:42 AM | #26 | ||
Banned
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No I deal with pilots and crew everyday. I'm just interested to know what they are flying
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16-05-2010, 10:26 AM | #27 | ||
The Origional, The Best
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Darwin, NT
Posts: 709
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Im a pilot, currently not flying anything as i'm looking for work
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Current Mods 2.5" Red Back Exhaust | C2R Grill | Brumby Front Bar & Driving Lights | 18" Optic Blacks | Tickford Intake | Blue Momo Shifter Knob & Wheel | BA Scuff Plates with Ford Metal Inserts Future Mods Lowerage on KingSprings Lows | Engine...Period | Sounds System I Use And Recommend F1 Tyres And Wheels On The Gold Coast Proud Supporter of Beat The Heat (NT)
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16-05-2010, 04:32 PM | #28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
There was a glut of pilots 20yrs ago and the typical thing said to me when looking for work was.. "you see that tree outside? If I shake that tree, 10 pilots would fall out of it" I left the GA industry in 2005 as I had enough. Now im told everyone is desperate for crews, hence all these sausage factory flight schools which pop up everywhere and take your money.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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16-05-2010, 06:18 PM | #29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I agree, there are some silly comments made about Airbus, or is that scarebus :
My bet is pilot error is the cause but until the investigation is complete it's mere speculation.
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16-05-2010, 06:42 PM | #30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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