Another Pacific highway death

[DJM83]

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/pair-die-i...109-1pqmf.html

Having driven this road probably 1/2 a dozen times in the last 4-5 years seems progress on upgrading this stretch of road is deathly slow. Will be good when its done although looks like it will be a while.

Edit- now im not blaming the road for every death that occurs on it.

[4stanger]

I find the Urunga inccident more disturbing than this one.
I recall back in the late eighties and all the uproar about the upgrading of the Pacific highway to dual lanes after the 2 bus tragedies at Kempsey and Grafton. I haven't travelled the Pacific Hwy since October 1990, are we still waiting for this to happen? As a nation we are struggling to keep up the infrastuture for our progress, not only the roads & transport but the health system as well.

[falconnut]

Holy **** i was right down the road from that urunga accident yesterday, its a really built up area with heaps of traffic and its only a very narrow 60km/h road, combine that with driver fatigue and this kind of thing does happen every year around this time in the holidays without fail.

It really also demonstrates how useless speed cameras are as there is one not 1km down the road that did NOTHING to prevent this!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

I find the Urunga inccident more disturbing than this one.
I recall back in the late eighties and all the uproar about the upgrading of the Pacific highway to dual lanes after the 2 bus tragedies at Kempsey and Grafton. I haven't travelled the Pacific Hwy since October 1990, are we still waiting for this to happen? As a nation we are struggling to keep up the infrastuture for our progress, not only the roads & transport but the health system as well.

The rail industry has been trying for years to get the north coast railway upgraded so that capacity and greatly shortened transit times will encourage freight and bus passengers to rail - all fallen on political deaf ears. The federal government is also ably assisting this process by subjecting public transport to the carbon tax while exempting the road transport industry for two years and passenger cars for ever. Double standard not?

So we still have plenty of buses and B doubles on the road to heighten the chance of these incidents. The penny doesn't drop with most people that public transport solutions are also road solutions in as much as they take a load off the road and create a safer environment for cars.

[csv8]

Condolences to the family of the boy who died.
But ,here we go again!! speed cameras will stop accidents. IF the truck was speeding ,how would the camera have stopped the accident???? Cameras are a cheap/simplistic solution.

Listen to MP3 of this story ( minutes)
ALTERNATE WMA VERSION | MP3 DOWNLOAD
EMILY BOURKE: A road safety expert has spoken out about what may have contributed to a horrific accident on the Pacific Highway south of Coffs Harbour where a young boy was killed yesterday.

A leading authority on road accidents is pointing to a nearby speed camera that was switched off six months ago after a state government audit.

Alison Caldwell reports.

ALISON CALDWELL: Transport accident investigators are examining what caused yesterday's horrific crash at Urunga on the Pacific Highway on the New South Wales mid-North Coast. Speed may have been a factor.

Last July, the state government switched off 38 speed cameras across the state, five on the Pacific Highway, one at Urunga, one kilometre away from where the accident happened.

The decision to switch off the cameras followed a state wide audit of speed cameras instigated by the Premier Barry O'Farrell, who described them as cash cows.

Professor Max Cameron is with Monash University's Accident Research Centre and he assisted with the New South Wales audit. He says the absence of a speed camera at Urunga may have contributed to yesterday's crash.

MAX CAMERON: Well, the camera was one of the 38 that the auditor-general found no evidence of effectiveness in terms of crash reductions and one could argue that then is the argument for removing the camera. But of course the trucking industry in particular are well aware of all fixed cameras and their locations, so I would suggest that its removal meant that they then felt they could speed with some impunity and that may be what has happened in this case.

ALISON CALDWELL: It would be, would it be a relatively easy thing to do for them to switch that camera back on again, much easier than setting up and building a double, a dual carriage way?

MAX CAMERON: Of course, it is a fairly simple process especially if the camera pole and so on are still located there but it is much more trivial than rebuilding a highway. But of course you need to ask the question what does that achieve and there is no doubt that it would reduce crashes and particularly the severe injury crashes at that location.

But fixed cameras have a very limited role in terms of an overall effect on speeding across the road system.

ALISON CALDWELL: In December the local Bellingen Shire appealed to the state and federal governments to allocate funding for an upgrade to the Pacific Highway and has been lobbying for the speed camera near the site to be switched back on.

EMILY BOURKE: Alison Caldwell.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

I find the Urunga inccident more disturbing than this one.
I recall back in the late eighties and all the uproar about the upgrading of the Pacific highway to dual lanes after the 2 bus tragedies at Kempsey and Grafton. I haven't travelled the Pacific Hwy since October 1990, are we still waiting for this to happen? As a nation we are struggling to keep up the infrastuture for our progress, not only the roads & transport but the health system as well.

Yeah i was more refering to the Urunga accident.
I think you are right we struggling to keep or infrastructure inline with population growth etc.
There is at any one time 1000 people working on the Pac Hwy upgrade.
It isnt the most pleasant stretch of road at the best of times. I seen an accident virtually happen infront of me (occupants were crawling from smashed cars) i can see why accidents occur on this road though.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by falconnut

It really also demonstrates how useless speed cameras are as there is one not 1km down the road that did NOTHING to prevent this!

Its one of the cameras they turned off last year.

You'd have to be crazy to speed around there though, just about everytime I drive through the Mobile camera is setup either south of the town in the dodgy section or on the way heading out north in the 80 zone.

[Mr Hardware]

The Urunga accident was partially a product of the conditions. The place the semi trailer ended up was where any vehicle that failed to negotiate the downhill bend would have ended up, but with probably less inertia. Houses on bends do tend to see more vehicles into them than just random houses.

[prydey]

there are many roads and infrastructure around the country that need major improvement, and often, locals have warned that some areas, like urunga, are an accident waiting to happen. this is why it leaves a sour taste in the mouth when you get news of gillard and co helping themselves to massive payrises. where's the justice.

[cobramania]

That speed camera that was turned off, has now been turned back on in warning mode (i.e.. you get a speed warning notice not a fine/infringement). The police haven't yet said speed was the cause or major factor in this incident yet.
Apparently it was turned off as it was making heaps of money but not increasing the safety of the road. If this (or any other) camera was working & the ute driver was speeding, would the accident have still happened, likely, & with no disrespect to any of the people/families would they have sent the fine to the deceased driver in a few weeks time, & how would that have saved him or anyone else?
Time to seriously review & take a different approach to road safety.

[prydey]

was speed even a factor? chances are ute driver just fell asleep...

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by prydey

was speed even a factor? chances are ute driver just fell asleep...

We can all speculate, even after police investigation, they can't be 100% with their findings of what exactly happened.
Basic workplace safety training tell's us to; remove the risk (shift the houses or shift the Pacific Highway) or put up physical barriers (concrete fence & road dividers). PPE is the last line of defence; would be seat belts, speed limits, road worthy vehicles driver training etc.

[Ben73]

Just as the sun is coming up is when fatigue often hits you.
They were probably driving for hours before the crash. It says they from Sydney. I wouldn't be surprised if they left Sydney a few hours before the crash.

[Jim Goose]

This morning on the radio (ABC) there was a comment that the person who ordered the camera back on was worried that it was a contributing factor in the accident???? I didnt hear anymore of who/how or why..... as I was on my way to Cairns.

But is this person inferring someone may have suddenly jumped on the brakes when they saw the camera? Not familier with the area but the comments on the radio was certainly interesting to say the least.

[Jim Goose]

Found this... driver had left Tully in North QLD.

Townsville company JAT Transport contracted fellow Townsville company Atlas Haulage to transport 30 pallets of bananas from Tully to Sydney. The truck left North Queensland on Thursday and was due to arrive in Sydney today.

Atlas Haulage operations manager Peter Bakon said the driver had worked for the company for 12 months and was experienced.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au...6291_news.html

[prydey]

hopefully you're not trying to imply the truck driver was at fault.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by prydey

hopefully you're not trying to imply the truck driver was at fault.

Hopefully you're not trying to imply that the truck driver was not at fault either - or to put it another way, hopefully nobody is assuming who is at fault until it's been formally investigated. Dishing out speculative blame for accidents is not one of the finer features of internet forums!

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Found this... driver had left Tully in North QLD.

So what?

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

We can all speculate, even after police investigation, they can't be 100% with their findings of what exactly happened.

Don’t be too sure about that. They might not be the nicest people to deal with at times but the people who investigate these things aren’t stupid.

let’s see. First they will be taking blood and saliva samples from the truck driver, then they have the manifest that shows what the truck was carrying and when it left. The data recorder in the truck, once downloaded will reveal all of the operating parameters including bake applications, braking distance, speed, engine rpm, idle time, time in top gear, total time in cruise control, total engine stop time, excessive deceleration and many other interesting things that people who have no idea about trucks would be very surprised with.

Then they have the driver’s log book, which they would have already scrutinised with a magnifying glass. They would also be checking the Safe-T-Cam data that would have tracked the vehicle once it entered NSW cross checking it with the GPS in the truck and the driver’s log book. There may even be satellite controlled temperature loggers on the fridge motors that can also be checked and don’t rule out that the truck may be fitted with an on-board video camera as many have them these days.

See, here’s all of this information that they wouldn’t have if the ute hit another car.

Now, they will be checking the time over distance speed cameras and Safe-T-cam network to check on the progress of the ute, yeah, they can do that. Then once the toxicology results come back, they will know what the ute driver’s BAC was, if anything at all. They will have all the information from the road surface, friction points, tyre marks, and point of impact, so if I was a betting man, and I am. I’d say that there’s a very good chance that they will find out exactly what happened.

Originally Posted by new2ford

Blah Blah Blah, typical parrot

When you can pull yourself away from your toy train set and annoying people on Railpage, try reading this. I’ve even highlighted it, just for you.

Police believe a B-double truck that crashed into a house, killing a sleeping 11-year-old boy, was forced off the road while trying to avoid a ute driving in the wrong lane.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/w...109-1pr67.html

If you still can’t understand it, find a grown up to read it and explain it to you.

[Jim Goose]

Wasnt implying anything..... I am from Townsville.

And yes i have read the news this morning stating the ute was apparently on the wrong side of the road....

I also made the comment about the person who reactivated the speed camera... who was worried that the camera contributed to the crash?

[csv8]

Quote:
Police believe a B-double truck that crashed into a house, killing a sleeping 11-year-old boy, was forced off the road while trying to avoid a ute driving in the wrong lane. my comment.. And switching on the speed camera will stop that ????? just another excuse to try and justify the cameras...

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

If you still can’t understand it, find a grown up to read it and explain it to you.

Thanks for your rudeness. Your quote actually says "police believe". That's not the same as a formal finding. I'm suggesting people should not attribute blame - either way - until a formal outcome, what's the problem with that?

[DJM83]

Lets keep it civil thanks, no need for the insults.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by NSW Police

It can now be revealed the driver of the ute had a high-range blood alcohol concentration of 0.245 – almost five times the legal limit.

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/me...bWwmYWxsPTE%3D

[TMC]

Speed cameras aren't going to stop drunk driving unfortunately. I think hidden speed cameras virtually do nothing for safety. A permanent, always armed camera can work to control peoples driving in a dangerous spot, but only if big signs are posted everywhere on the approaches to remind people of where they are and what they will get if they breach the law. This may result in less revenue but safer driving, which after all is what it all should be about.

Until they invent an "idiot meter" that tests the amount of idiocy in a driver before the key is turned preventing an engine start, drink drivers, drugged drivers and dangerous reckless drivers will keep killing people. These people are often totally oblivious to speed cameras.

[falconator]

There is no such thing as a bad road,only bad drivers, not adhering to conditions.They can do all the upgrades they want to keep the boys in work,but people will still find a way to kill themselves.Everybody assumes that nothing bad will happen to them,and that is a mistake!