"European quality" is it just a myth?

[stevz]

Time and time again we hear/read of people describing Australian built vehicles as being of very poor build quality, while at the same time having nothing but praise for European built vehicles.
Something I saw today got me thinking. I was at Pickles Auctions having a look at some cars when I came across this 2008 Mondeo. The door trim material on both sides had completely come away from its backing. This is appalling for a 4 year old vehicle. I have never seen anything like this on a similarly aged Falcon or Commodore.
European cars may be great when they are new, but from what I have seen they just don't stand up as well as Aussie built cars in our harsh conditions.
So whats with this "Aussie is crap, Euro is best" attitude that so many people seem to have these days?

[DJM83]

Guess you dont know the history of that particular car so its hard.
Tell you what, my almost 2 year old XR5 has only had one issue where the Sony H/U gave up the ghost.
To this day, not one rattle, squeak or anything loose anywhere not even in the drivetrain where it is making the flywheel figure at the wheels.
Car still feels like the day i drove it from the showroom, im a convert my next car will be a Euro aswell.
Also FWIW my car was used as a demo at a detailing day on another forum, and the guy doing the detailing (He is on here) said its got the most amount of paint on it he has seen for a while.
Im sure there is some horror stories with Euro cars though.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Guess you dont know the history of that particular car so its hard.

That's it, especially with auction cars.

[Polyal]

OK this is very poignant in terms of the falcon and its future....

EU cars have better "quality" because more $$ is spent on developing them, they have higher volumes thus the companies demand huge amounts of resources that enables them to spend the cash on;

1. Designs with better tolerances
2. Better quality materials

IMO thats about it. Give the Falcon the same budget and they will produce something similar.

[flappist]

The only issue I have had with any of my late model falcons as far as "interior quality" is concerned is that I believe it is far to easy to scratch or mark many of the surfaces especially the silver/grey metalised plastics.

But then again my datto was worse.....

[nstg8a]

i thnk the real myth here is the 'harsh aussie conditions' and how australian built cars are built to handle it.


how many fords and holdens do you see with sun baked paint? imo a lot more than japanese and european brands.

how many complaints as their been about the fg's aircon? surely one of the more important traits you would want in a car built to endure the 'harsh aussie conditions' is highly effective and efficient air con?

drooping headlinings because the glues failed with heat?

headlights that go hazy with too much sunlight

interior trim that goes crumbly after being subjected to prolonged heat

exterior plastics that go all pitty and crap looking because of the heat...

or interior plastics that deform with heat

etc etc etc.

i really think the whole line about the locals being built to handle local conditions is largely debunct in this day and age. their built to a price point pure and simple. they are what they are and unfortunatly the buying public is voting with their wallets and buying other brands now.

[xr gr8]

Interesting thread, one thing I noticed during the late seventies and eighties as a junior (with many family and friends parents etc driving or owning Euro) was that the European cars interiors struggled with our sun and heat. Dashes, door trims and seats didn't last too long! I presume technology has eliminated most of these issues today but it aways made me wonder about the "euro quality" they all carried on about!

[gcg2503]

My cousins Mondeo XR5 Turbo 2009 had the same issue on the drivers door as depicted above.

This was when the car had less than 5000km on it

Fixed under warranty .

[Franco Cozzo]

Minor issues with my WS Fiesta, one of the vents on the side of the dash fell out after hitting a pot hole.

Also the power window switch on the passenger side seems to pop out all the time.

Few rattles here and there, but any car does that.

On my LV Focus, the seat creaks and there is a rattle coming from behind the cluster.

I work on new Mercedes Sprinters at work and they come off the production line to our workshop with missing trims, bonnet badges higher on one car than the other, missing clips in the lights, etc.

Anything mass produced and with humans involved you will come across issues with.

[mash85]

i think the there is often confusion between level of "finish" and "quality".

for instance, you can have a car that is generally good quality but has a low level of finish - ie, its built to last, but the feel of the controls or materials may feel cheap.

The opposite is also true, you can have a car with a lower standard of quality but i higher level of finish. this can lead to perceived quality.

Whilst some Euro manfactuers do turn out a very high quality car, I think there are alot that just jump on the "Euro equals quality" bandwagon when in fact their cars are far from it.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by mash85

i think the there is often confusion between level of "finish" and "quality".

for instance, you can have a car that is generally good quality but has a low level of finish - ie, its built to last, but the feel of the controls or materials may feel cheap.

The opposite is also true, you can have a car with a lower standard of quality but i higher level of finish. this can lead to perceived quality.

Whilst some Euro manfactuers do turn out a very high quality car, I think there are alot that just jump on the "Euro equals quality" bandwagon when in fact their cars are far from it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

[Dave R]

Belgium-made Astra, owned since new, only ever been back to the dealership for servicing, not one single warranty item in 5 years. Even after 60000km it feels as tight as the day it was purchased. Hats off to Opel, they build a solid car.

[AU Mont]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Belgium-made Astra, owned since new, only ever been back to the dealership for servicing, not one single warranty item in 5 years. Even after 60000km it feels as tight as the day it was purchased. Hats off to Opel, they build a solid car.

we will forget about those earlier astra's though.......

my mothers 04' astra has got to be the biggest euro-bitsa money pit ive ever seen and its still only got 90,000km's. However it does drive very nice !!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Belgium-made Astra, owned since new, only ever been back to the dealership for servicing, not one single warranty item in 5 years. Even after 60000km it feels as tight as the day it was purchased. Hats off to Opel, they build a solid car.

Same story with our old 2000 Barina (Corsa)...not one single issue in 180,000k's..stocks suspension, clutch the lot

[Nikked]

European cars have definitely got a high level of quality to them.


Keep this in mind, it's not just where they are built, but the engineering that goes into the littlest thing, like a plastic clip, that makes all the difference.

[Rodge]

As others have said, you can't just throw a blanket over all Euro's and classify them as the same. A top line German designed vehicle made in Germany is a one of life's finer pleasures in my opinion.

[MethodX]

Do all these horror stories about VW have any substance to them?
Gearboxes failing and the like...

[Rodge]

^^ I wouldn't buy any VW with a DSG box, my 2 cents on that question.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Do all these horror stories about VW have any substance to them?
Gearboxes failing and the like...

There has been a recall in america on DSG equipped cars...


And in china they did a free of charge computer software update, and extended the warrenty to 10 years or 160,000 km...

But its like all things, poeple talk about the worst rather then the good.

[Dr Smith]

One thing to also note is that build quality isn't something that starts at the production line assembly point but rather at the design of the components initially, better design means parts fit better and usually last longer. Then comes the actual specifications of the material used in making the components, followed by the qualtity used manufacturing the parts and then the quality used in assembly. Each is just as important but it does start with design.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Do all these horror stories about VW have any substance to them?
Gearboxes failing and the like...

I have a van with conventional auto, replaced at 85K, seems common and one error is not specifying oil changes at all. DSG's have a had several software upgrades more to do with shift programming issues such as coming to roundabout, coast to stop/slow, press throttle to take off and delayed take off as box downshifts from 1st to neutral, then engages 1st again causing massive heart rate increase or visit to dry cleaners. Believe it or not but Focus DSG is so much better and smoother.

[Itsme]

2000 Ford laser, which is a Mazda protege built in Japan...12 years old and still like brand new condition just regular servicing only.... wish aussies cars were like these?
But then again the Australian built cars are as just as good.

[TheInterceptor]

Hm, well my Falcon, in terms of quality, is brilliant. So far i can see that the headliner will be failing sometime in the next 12months as its beginning to slowly separate at the windscreen...but you wouldnt know that unless you went looking which i did. But thats standard on most "plastic age" Falcons.

Driver seat is worn n torn...this was an RTA car so thats standard. Hm hm hm hm im struggling to find anything else! Maybe because its an AUII!?

Dads BFII survived the outback, rough dirt roads and its corrugations while towing a caravan and its only managed a small dash rattle, a small seat creak that comes n goes, and a brief squeak from the rhs leaf pack when taking off.

Unsure of the F series Falcons but those of the past are tough and are quality! But if you managed to buy a Friday model...might be a different story!

Im very happy with my Aussie made car!

Euro doesn't say quality to me, it says harder to work on, more electronic crap to go wrong and more expensive parts

[new2ford]

The Germans and French have taken a big nosedive on quality issues in the last couple of decades. But there's so much outsourcing of manufacture to other countries nowadays, it depends how the quality is supervised and where it is made. (Interestingly I don't see many Volvos around in Europe, they seem to have died out.)

The best-built and most reliable Euro cars come from the Czech Republic and Slovakia, no two ways (and that's not just Skoda but others built there like Hyundai, Toyota, Peugeot, some VW). The quality of finish leaves Australian cars for dead. Skoda's reliability is very high.

The thing about conditions is a myth. Czech roads are very much like Australian, which is probably why the Czechs engineer for these conditions unlike Germany and France which have excellent roads.

Also cars in Europe have to put up with extreme conditions, temps up to mid 30s like now (which means aircon has to be good) and down to minus 40! They also travel a lot at very high speeds, often 140-200, and do very high mileage. Our Skoda is only 6 years old but has done 200,000 km and still as solid as a rock. Cars are driven into the ground in Europe in a way I don't see in Australia so the expectations placed on them are very high.

So yes Euro quality can be very good but you need to look at the brand and where it is made. I think when we eventually give up the Territory the next one will be a Skoda. Awesome! But if Ford Australia provided European Fords made in Europe I'd consider one, but not from Thailand. European manufacturers burned their fingers on the South African experience, not the way to go.

Edit: but as I always say, the ongoing operating costs of Australian-built cars are lower, so if you're prepared to accept the quality compromise, that's often a better long-term path financially. As long as Ford continues to pay for the ball joints and you develop some expertise at putting trim back after it falls off!

[DJM83]

Disagree with the aircon bit. The aircon in my focus is crap, but the heater will burn your face off even when it isn't on full heat let alone full.
My old AU's had ice cold air-conditioning.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Do all these horror stories about VW have any substance to them?
Gearboxes failing and the like...

Spoke to a guy the other day with a TD V10 Touareg, just spent $12k on the transmission, $10k on turbos, $4k on brakes, replaced rims because they kept buckling...

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

i thnk the real myth here is the 'harsh aussie conditions' and how australian built cars are built to handle it.


how many fords and holdens do you see with sun baked paint? imo a lot more than japanese and european brands.


headlights that go hazy with too much sunlight

Seen plenty of late model BMWs and Mercs with yellow headlights, and im talking five years old models.
Sure EF and ELs were bad for it, but dont recall seeing too many AUs/BAs etc with it.

[Kable72]

I don't know what people are on about with Falcons A/C. Mines top notch. Turns me to liquid with the heat on, and when I have it on cold, my balls shrivel into old prunes.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Seen plenty of late model BMWs and Mercs with yellow headlights, and im talking five years old models.
Sure EF and ELs were bad for it, but dont recall seeing too many AUs/BAs etc with it.

im not just referring to fords at all, commodore taillights all seem to fade until theyre just outputting white light. vr/vs ones seem to be the worst

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

drooping headlinings because the glues failed with heat?

Actually the glue never fails in heat. Its actually the foam backing to the material on card-based linings (ie: all modern cars) that separates from the material. Foam has a finite lifespan & is guaranteed to fall off after a period of time.

But yes, leaving cars in the heat does accelerate this problem.