FPV's Thoughts on reviving GT-HO (Drive.com)

[csv8]

A modern-day version of the iconic Ford Falcon GTHO may never see the light of day after all, and is now in a race against time, money and a lack of buyer interest in the regular Falcon.

Since Ford Performance Vehicles unveiled its supercharged 5.0-litre V8, developed at a cost of $36 million, the company has hinted that it could spawn a tribute to the famous GT nameplate from the 1970s.

Although the engine produces 335kW of power, FPV insiders say that it is capable of producing in excess of 400kW.

However, to handle the awesome amount of power, the Falcon's underpinnings require more engineering work than initially thought.



If FPV was to abandon the GTHO project it has been talking about since 2007 (initially it was talked of reviving the GTHO name but later FPV said such a flagship would not use the legendary moniker) it would mean backing down from the wish of former general manager Rod Barrett, who suggested a modern GTHO was likely.

FPV today released its fastest ever sedan, a limited edition Falcon GT R-Spec with upgraded suspension and wider tyres to cope with the full 335kW of power, but even more modifications are required to make the next step if more power was eked from the engine.

At today's release of "the most advanced GT Falcon to date", the managing director of FPV, Bryan Mears, told Drive:

"A lot has been said about GTHO over the years. Many people have had opinions and have wanted us, as the owners of that DNA, to say 'let's bring out a new GTHO'.

"[But] I don't know how you do that. The fact is GTHO is not only iconic, it's off in a space by itself.

"For someone to say I'm going to make one of those is really an impossible task because we will never ever get it right."

Mears said the just-released R-Spec GT is the best of the Falcon breed in 40-plus years, but any further changes would be at a significant cost.

"Today's car is so far ahead of the original GTHO, there's daylight," Mears says. "If you look at the underpinnings of this vehicle ... it's the mothership.

"[But] there is no doubt it needs considerable investment to take it to a level beyond where we have it now.

"This [R-Spec] is the optimum package, for this vehicle's capability."

Drive understands that the decision to make the necessary changes to the Falcon's underbody lie with Ford, which has just reported a record financial loss in Australia in the wake of nosediving Falcon sales.

The other inhibiting factor is that Ford Australia is now fully integrated into Ford's global research, development and durability standards.

Any changes to the Falcon must be approved by Detroit executives, who are reportedly loathe to make any further investments in the Falcon as they are acutely aware of the model's record-low sales.

Ford owns 49 per cent of FPV and Prodrive owns 51 per cent. But although Ford is a minority partner, it holds the cards in terms of the development of the donor vehicle.

When asked about the likelihood of a modern-day GTHO (or "Phase V" as it has been dubbed by some) before the current generation Falcon bows out by 2016, Mears said:

"I'm not at liberty to talk about Ford's plans, or our plans.

"If you want the best Falcon GT money can buy ... you'd be crazy not to buy this vehicle we have released today. This is the best car we've ever produced."\
http://brisbanetimes.drive.com.au/mo...813-244g2.html

Comment by csv8 not Drive:
SRT8 will give the GT a run for its money, power and value for money...

[Road_Warrior]

Pfft, whatever. More Drivel from Drive. Must be a slow news week.

[BHDOGS]

Oh no no gtho who cares leave it dead bring it back whateva it makes no diffrence

[DJR-351]

If they have killed it then good on em, there was a reason the GTHO was built in the day and that reason no longer exists.....do people realy want a faux GTHO.....

[Vesper Martini]

36 million in development huh, and still more to do, good to see the moneys well spent. those costs can never be recouped

[gtfpv]

"DRIVE" sucks !

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

"DRIVE" sucks !

Indeed. Time for a little more content and context in the scheme of this "story", something that Drivel has never been capable of:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A5A0002AB07

FORD Performance Vehicles will stick to its guns with a Falcon-based range of sedans and utes, precluding the possible return of a Territory-based SUV or smaller four-cylinder models such as a Focus-derived hot hatch in the immediate future.

However, the company – which is a 51/49 per cent joint venture between Prodrive and Ford Australia – will not comment on specific future product or activity, including whether it is working on a replacement for the existing Falcon range of vehicles beyond 2016.

FPV also would not reveal whether it plans to develop faster versions of Ford’s latest-generation EcoBoost engine – either the current four-cylinder or the V6 yet to come here – that are expected to be the heart of Ford’s next generation of family cars.

“I am in no position to say – you will have to ask Ford,” FPV managing director Bryan Mears told GoAuto this week.

Mr Mears is striving to keep customers interested in a brand that has gone through its share of peaks and troughs since forming 10 years ago this month.

“While the market has changed and a lot of Australians are saying they don’t want to buy a big rear-wheel drive vehicle, there’s still a part of the market that says: ‘Hey! We really want this sort of car.’

“So if we didn’t produce this type of vehicle, if we didn’t keep renewing ourselves and developing vehicles that people want, then obviously we would be out of business.”

Mr Mears said FPV is concentrating on making the best performance car in Australia’s history and cannot afford to digress into niches that may not be beneficial for the brand.

“The Territory (in 2008) demonstrated to us that people were not prepared to buy a homegrown high-performance SUV,” he told us.

“Those people lucky enough to have one will know how good they are, but I don’t think we’ll do anything there, to be honest.

“The development of products in the future is dependent on what we do with this vehicle (Falcon).”

Though FPV traditionally does not release sales figures or projections, Mr Mears said the short-term goal is to crack the 2000 annual sales mark, though it is considerably short of that goal.

“In terms of the numbers going through the business, it is less than the previous year, which was less than the year before that,” said Mr Mears.

“I’d like to take a bigger market share. I’m disappointed that we’re not selling as many of these vehicles that the investment warrants.

“Having said that, the last couple of months have been stunning. I’m very happy with the results.

“I’d certainly like more. We don’t talk about numbers, but in the order of about 2000 units a year is not a bad starting point.

“We’re getting back to the numbers that is counter to the trends in the market place. So what we’re doing in the market is we’re getting back to the running rates that I’m much more comfortable with.

“You know all the factors affecting people’s confidence. There’s a lot of that in the mix. So if a lot more people have a lot more confidence in the marketplace or what’s happening in the Australian economy and all of those things, people will come in. I do think there is a pent-up demand.”

Mr Mears said that downsizing the workforce at FPV’s Campbellfield headquarters just north of Melbourne in late May – including the replacement of managing director Rod Barrett, who had served in the top position for five years – was necessary to restructure the business.

“It wasn’t done for survival in the sense that ‘if we don’t do that we’ll close the doors’.

“The reality is that we’re all in business – whether it is automotive manufacturing or making ice-creams – for a reason, and we need to ensure that our costs are managed well.

“Ford, like GMH and Toyota, are tailoring their businesses to demand going forward. There’s a whole range of reasons that are in play, and we’re no different to anybody else.

“In real terms, it was a major structural problem that we had to address, and people had to leave.”

FPV will push its new GT RSPEC model from early September on the back of the Bathurst 1000 and exposure from the Australian International Motor Show in Sydney.

Racing legend Allan Moffat and current V8 Supercar championship contender Will Davison will step up their roles as brand ambassadors, featuring in a new light-hearted advertising campaign.

And from Carpoint:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2012...s-secure-31861

No end in sight for local performance brand, whatever befalls Falcon

Ford Performance Vehicles will continue on beyond 2016 whether the Falcon exists or not.

That’s the commitment from the company’s managing director Bryan Mears, made at today’s launch of the new FPV GT RSPEC.

But he also declared there was no prospect of a higher-powered supercharged V8, rumoured to be codenamed Tempest appearing at the Sydney motor show in October.

He also downplayed any prospect of a return of the iconic GTHO, refused to even discuss the possible return of the XR8 badge and ruled out the development of an FPV-badged Falcon Ecoboost or any small cars including the Focus.

Instead it seems that FPV is locked into a roll-out of moderate upgrades. For instance, it seems certain that the RSPEC chassis upgrades will eventually sit under all Miami supercharged V8s, most likely when the 2013 model year arrives.

That in turn sets FPV up for an engine performance upgrade down the track. But don’t expect to see it at the Sydney show.

“That’s definitely not going to happen,” Mears said when asked about Tempest. “I would love to see it, but if it happens I will drop my dacks and walk backwards up Collins Street in winter.”

On GTHO he said: “The GTHO is a long way down the track ... from reaching fruition.

“The GT RSPEC is our GTHO, the only thing missing from it is the GTHO badge and a $100,000 price tag.”

Mears, who recently oversaw a restructure of FPV that culled senior staff including general manager Rod Barrett, has now assumed day-to-day running of the business, in addition to his role as Prodrive Asia-Pacific managing director.

The questioning of FPV’s future spins logically from the doubts over the fate of Falcon and local manufacturing by the blue oval.

At the moment guarantees of Falcon survival extend only as far as the scheduled end of production of the current FG range in 2016.

FPV currently builds only turbo-six and supercharged V8 versions of the rear-wheel drive Falcon sedan and utility. If they go out of production, what replaces them?

Would an all-wheel drive version of the Taurus, which is mooted to replace Falcon, fit with the brand philosophically?

“We have a huge amount of money invested in FPV and that symbol (FPV badge) on the back of that car,” Mears said. “Not many people would go to the extent of tearing that value up and throwing it away based on a philosophical position.

“Are all of our cars in the future going to be imported? I don’t know that. I don’t know what they (Ford) are doing, but I guarantee you, if you have got millions tied up in that brand you’ve got to ask that question, do you tear it up?

“Of course you don’t.”

But Mears would not be drawn on just where FPV might sit in what is shaping up as a radically altered automotive landscape.

“I can’t talk for Ford, what they are doing and contemplating is a matter for themselves. What I am doing and contemplating is protecting that brand (FPV).”

My take: FPV's business is making hi-po RWD cars. They must be pretty confident of having access to a RWD-based Ford core vehicle to be saying they arent worried about what the future holds.

[StrikeTwiceXR6]

A well known fact is that the 335 is producing a "tiny" bit more power than the claimed 335 in stock guise. To be honest, I am sick of all the people that don't even own a 335/315 saying that a HO is needed without even experiencing the current FPV offering. There are way too many dreamers on here that have a critical opinion of the current FPV offering, and that really stinks. The current FPV line-up is the best Ford Aus has ever made.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

do people realy want a faux GTHO.....

1 Those who dont wont buy it, so they have no say in the answer.

2 Those who do and wont buy it, have no say in the answer.

3 Those who will buy it are the only ones who matter.

If they build it, it is good enough (it only has to be good enough, it doesnt have to beat a McLaren, the original has been built up by people who fall into answer 1 to beyond the cars actual abilities). It was the fastest four door in the world when virtually no one built fast four door sedans.

If people will buy it then Ford/FPV should build it as the Falcons last hurruh.

[Vesper Martini]

Correct me if I’m wrong the 250 of the 25th Anniversary GT were produced in 1991 would we expect a 2013 GTHO to better this? it would need to be nearly twice as many to be viable
I like the idea, and would love to see them on the road but I would never buy one.

[RedHotGT]

I'm interested in how you 'Kill' something that is yet to be born?

[Road_Warrior]

Misleading thread title is misleading.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by tweeked

If they build it, it is good enough (it only has to be good enough, it doesnt have to beat a McLaren, the original has been built up by people who fall into answer 1 to beyond the cars actual abilities). It was the fastest four door in the world when virtually no one built fast four door sedans.

What.....?? sorry swahili is not one of my strong points, i understand the last sentence (even though this was not the motivation for building the original, but a result off) but the rest of the paragraph.....

[Nikked]

Given what has people have said in the R-Spec and W427 threads....


No matter how hard FPV try, it will never be good enough. it could have 500kw, and people will still whinge about the price, how on particular colour combo doesn't suit them and how if you went to such and such you could make a XT go faster.


Drive (like most fairfax/newscorp stuff) seem to rather the dull doom and gloom of the world...


You can't have FPV release to new models and a possible GTHO-like car slated for a motorshow appearence without drawing attention to somthing obvious. Who'd a thought a car would need the green light from executives....

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Misleading thread title is misleading.

Well, there have been two positive threads about the Falcon...


Need to kick the dirt into the eyes...

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Given what has people have said in the R-Spec and W427 threads....


No matter how hard FPV try, it will never be good enough. it could have 500kw, and people will still whinge about the price, how on particular colour combo doesn't suit them and how if you went to such and such you could make a XT go faster.


Drive (like most fairfax/newscorp stuff) seem to rather the dull doom and gloom of the world...


You can't have FPV release to new models and a possible GTHO-like car slated for a motorshow appearence without drawing attention to somthing obvious. Who'd a thought a car would need the green light from executives....

totaly agree mate , due to the comments that go around about such cars i think fpv would be better off not releasing a GTHO . But then again , i'm sure buyers wouldnt care about ridicule from c63 owners or c300 buyers .
still though , you coukdnt blame FPV for leaving it off the future agenda .

[StrikeTwiceXR6]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Given what has people have said in the R-Spec and W427 threads....


No matter how hard FPV try, it will never be good enough. it could have 500kw, and people will still whinge about the price, how on particular colour combo doesn't suit them and how if you went to such and such you could make a XT go faster.


Drive (like most fairfax/newscorp stuff) seem to rather the dull doom and gloom of the world...


You can't have FPV release to new models and a possible GTHO-like car slated for a motorshow appearence without drawing attention to somthing obvious. Who'd a thought a car would need the green light from executives....

Your spot on mate.

The irony of it is, it's the people that own a far lesser car than an FPV that share absolute rubbish on here. Green eyed envy at its best!

[Cabbage]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

If they have killed it then good on em, there was a reason the GTHO was built in the day and that reason no longer exists.....do people realy want a faux GTHO.....

I reckon if the Falcon is to cease production then building a GTHO as a last hurrah is a pretty good reason. Go out with a bang.

[AdamXR6]

Had a call from my dealer today re the rspec. I have intentonally not driven the current gt till today for fear i would just wilt and say i want one , .... find a way. anyway the current one is awesome, so the rspec will undoubtably be a special vehicle, but im thinking i will roll the dice and wait to see if that legendary HO badge does come back even for a last ever i dont care , will pay deposit the day it is mentioned.

[BluXR6T]

Originally Posted by StrikeTwiceXR6

A well known fact is that the 335 is producing a "tiny" bit more power than the claimed 335 in stock guise. To be honest, I am sick of all the people that don't even own a 335/315 saying that a HO is needed without even experiencing the current FPV offering. There are way too many dreamers on here that have a critical opinion of the current FPV offering, and that really stinks. The current FPV line-up is the best Ford Aus has ever made.

Spot on. A mate gave me a drive of his one day and being so impressed by it I got out of XR6T (which I loved) within a month and bought one.

Really, till you drive one of these you have no idea what there like, go try one first first then come back and comment.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

I reckon if the Falcon is to cease production then building a GTHO as a last hurrah is a pretty good reason. Go out with a bang.

Great idea for all us sentimental fools.

But what manager/bean counter in their right mind would approve the R&D money on a dead end project.

[flooded one]

the problem i see with reviving the GTHO is people will have stupid expectations of it before its even made.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Great idea for all us sentimental fools.

But what manager/bean counter in their right mind would approve the R&D money on a dead end project.

Exactly. The last car I can think of (at least in the USA) that went out with a bang was the Buick GNX.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Great idea for all us sentimental fools.

But what manager/bean counter in their right mind would approve the R&D money on a dead end project.

Hopefully it has already been done.

I agree they would not and should not spend more, but hopefully with what they have done with R Spec, and an already tested intercooler the durability and crash testing will not apply. The diff and gearbox cooling is a bit pie in the sky, even bigger front brakes may not work as an off the shelf change, and might require extensive ABS and ESC recalibration and testing.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by tweeked

1 Those who dont wont buy it, so they have no say in the answer.

2 Those who do and wont buy it, have no say in the answer.

3 Those who will buy it are the only ones who matter.

If they build it, it is good enough (it only has to be good enough, it doesnt have to beat a McLaren, the original has been built up by people who fall into answer 1 to beyond the cars actual abilities). It was the fastest four door in the world when virtually no one built fast four door sedans.

If people will buy it then Ford/FPV should build it as the Falcons last hurruh.

I think it will be a great car ... no doubting that, but I do agree it will probably be a last hurruh

I dont think you can resurrect the GTHO especally when referring to the phase 3 as it was specifically built as the "race track model"

so any attempt to mimic the GTHO is only marketing & window dressing regardless of how good the car is going to be ...it isnt going to have decals wacked over it and sent to Bathurst and I think thats the defining point between both cars (IMO)

[AdamXR6]

Personally I will buy GTHO regardless, as my sales rep said yesterday , remember they are a high powered tourer, not a dedicated race car.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by AdamXR6

Personally I will buy GTHO regardless, as my sales rep said yesterday , remember they are a high powered tourer, not a dedicated race car.

Actually thats not how i remember it at all, they where a race car first that became a high powered tourer due to the homologation rules of the day, not the other way around as your sales rep thinks........

Where a racing class requires that the vehicles raced be production vehicles only slightly adapted for racing, manufacturers typically produce a limited run of such vehicles for public sale so that they can legitimately race them in the class. These vehicles are commonly called "homologation specials"

[Wretched]

Leave the GTHO in the past.
What is was, the passion behind it and the reasoning behind creating it will never be replicated.
If they want another flagship name it something else (whether it is R-Spec).

[StrikeTwiceXR6]

Originally Posted by BluXR6T

Spot on. A mate gave me a drive of his one day and being so impressed by it I got out of XR6T (which I loved) within a month and bought one.

Really, till you drive one of these you have no idea what there like, go try one first first then come back and comment.

I had a similar experience. For years I had been pro-XR6T, without ever actually experiencing a ride or drive in one. I was just going off what I had read on here about how fast they are and all I was waiting for was to get off my P's and I was going to get sell my XR6 and step into an XR6T.
This all changed February this year! My brother owns a 335 GT-P and I went for a 2 hour drive with him. Pulling out of the street where I live was all that I needed. I wasn't driving, but the blower sound and the exhaust note, this thing was filling every void that my XR6 could never fill, and I wasn't driving! That day, I saw the light. FPV had finally built a factory V8 that is a very, very fast car that has character, and is daily driveable.
My time came late April this year. It was a choice between an F6 Ute or GS. For me, the GS wasn't the complete package, but I was determined to make it the complete package. The purchase was made, 6 piston Brembos + matching rear PBR upgrade, Herrod Intercooler, Yella Terra blower snout, 1000cc injectors, upgraded fuel pump, and Spiro's magic at Autotech, and 423rwkw was possible in a daily drive!

I went for a test drive in a FG XR6T as a possible new car for my wife 2 days ago, fast car and that's probably all I can say about my XR6T experience.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Leave the GTHO in the past.
What is was, the passion behind it and the reasoning behind creating it will never be replicated.
If they want another flagship name it something else (whether it is R-Spec).

Agreed. But then you will always have the people then sooking that it's not a GTHO.

I'd own an FPV no worries but they don't suit my needs and a little out of my budget, but for what you get for your money it's pretty bloody good. Seems they are going down the right track with the R Spec.

Hell I'd love to see another EsCos but I never will.