Democracy in action

[bobwm]

Can you imagine a bill like this even coming to a vote at any level of government in Australia?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...e-readers-too/

The City shall not:

A. Use any automatic traffic surveillance system or device, automatic license plate recognition system or device, or domestic drone system or device for the enforcement of a qualified traffic law violation, unless a peace officer or Parking Enforcement Attendant is present at the scene, witnesses the event, and personally issues the ticket to the alleged violator at the time and location of the vehicle

What would we do without speed cameras and red light cameras... I assume society would crumble?

[350125GO]

What is wrong with red light cameras?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

What is wrong with red light cameras?

Seriously?

Is that what you got out of that post?

[mr smith]

If they are that keen to protect privacy, they better get onto the following: Apple, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, Facebook, Tax dept, Samsung, Nokia..... do I need to continue?

I LOVE speed cameras and red light cameras. They are in place to help collect the idiot tax. Don't play the game and there is no need to pay.

[Bucknaked]

They should just issue us with ankle bracelets and be done with it.

[bobwm]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

What is wrong with red light cameras?

Yup, I was just wondering what it might be like if there was an actual conversation about the pros and the cons of automated surveillance technology without the "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" mentality.

On the subject of companies tracking you, those services are at least opt in. You choose to use a brand of computer or a piece of software or an internet service or a mobile phone and if you don't want to be tracked, you switch it off. Those corporations make no pretense as to the reason for their existence - profit.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people? I thought its raison d'etre was a little different.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by bobwm

Yup, I was just wondering what it might be like if there was an actual conversation about the pros and the cons of automated surveillance technology without the "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" mentality.

On the subject of companies tracking you, those services are at least opt in. You choose to use a brand of computer or a piece of software or an internet service or a mobile phone and if you don't want to be tracked, you switch it off. Those corporations make no pretense as to the reason for their existence - profit.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people? I thought its raison d'etre was a little different.

The short answer is there wouldn't be any meaningful conversation about this Bob (besides any around the water coolers at work). Govco stopped being about the people many moons ago, somewhere along the way, the muppets in charge swapped their oaths of office for stock options in Govco Pty Ltd.

They are addicted to the revenue the cameras rake in all without the expenditure of officer plod. I noticed something interesting in the quote, "peace officers". There's a reason behind that...

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

What is wrong with red light cameras?

The fact is they increase rear enders

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by mr smith

I LOVE speed cameras and red light cameras. They are in place to help collect the idiot tax. Don't play the game and there is no need to pay.

Because we all know that they are the only scientific or measuring instrument in the world of any sort that is always, every time, 100%, absolutely accurate without fail in all sorts of conditions...

Magical machines, those things...NASA could take a few pointers from them...

[ryeman]

Pre cameras, the RACV used to instruct that you should accelerate approaching lights to ensure you got through on the green.....they don't talk about that any more.
Not surprising really.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

The fact is they increase rear enders

So when a driver decides to stop at a red light and the idiot behind him is either following too closely or driving without due care thereby running into the vehicle in front this is because the first driver chose to stop at a red light rather than to continue through it endangering drivers on the cross road because it has a camera and he might get a ticket as well as being killed?

Hmmm....

Red light cameras and speed cameras are a good solution when they are VERY clearly marked and used in places where there is a potentially dangerous situation such as intersections or school zones.

All school zones should have speed cameras and video surveilance with large flashing red lights saying "SCHOOL ZONE ACTIVE SPEED LIMIT 40 WATCH OUT FOR CHILDREN YOU ARE BEING RECORDED" with all the fines going to the school so they will be closely monitored.

Unfortunately such methodology would only save lives not make lots of money so speed cameras have been perverted into tax sources by being hidden and placed in safe areas where they will raise the most revinue.

The do-gooders constantly dribble on about if you don't speed you would get fined (and I wonder why they did not just tell the victims of the holocost if they did not worship at a Synagogue or whatever they would not be murdered) but no one is the speed kills camp can explain these two facts:

1) Victoria, with umpty bazillion speed cameras has about the same road toll as the rest of Australia.

2) Each of these speed cameras book hundreds of thousands sometimes millions of cars every year. This means that at each of the cameras there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles that are speeding.
If, in fact, "speed kills" and there is absolutely no doubt at all that these cars are speeding why has there NOT BEEN EVEN ONE SINGLE DEATH IN FRONT OF A SPEED CAMERA?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Pre cameras, the RACV used to instruct that you should accelerate approaching lights to ensure you got through on the green.....they don't talk about that any more.
Not surprising really.

I do remember this.

[zilo]

The best thing I ever saw was a mechanical clock above an intersection that showed what part of the traffic light cycle the intersection was at.

Everyone could see that there was about to be a change and could anticipate their passage through the intersection.

It was on beach road in melbourne I think?


In the US they have a countdown for pedestrians associated with the "walk" signal...everyone knows when to ...RUN

[ryeman]

The clocks were common in Melbourne in the fifties but they were phased out quickly, probably because of 'racing' to get through.....now nobody would do that, would they...?

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by bobwm

On the subject of companies tracking you, those services are at least opt in. You choose to use a brand of computer or a piece of software or an internet service or a mobile phone and if you don't want to be tracked, you switch it off. Those corporations make no pretense as to the reason for their existence - profit.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people? I thought its raison d'etre was a little different

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...y-8648744.html

This is more of a concern than red light cameras. Try opting out of using Google or Microsoft...

The govt is for the people, have you had a chat with your local member? Maybe the majority are for speed and red light cameras. The only people I know who complain around the water cooler at work about being busted are the serial pea heads who think the world revolves around them.

[Trump]

And that is what is publicly known of their surveillance activities. Fudge knows how elaborate their schemes are...

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by zilo

The best thing I ever saw was a mechanical clock above an intersection that showed what part of the traffic light cycle the intersection was at.

Everyone could see that there was about to be a change and could anticipate their passage through the intersection.

It was on beach road in melbourne I think?


In the US they have a countdown for pedestrians associated with the "walk" signal...everyone knows when to ...RUN

One of my mates from somewhere on the other side of the world was explaining to us how traffic lights work in his country. Amber comes before green, as well as red. And only one flow of traffic (one direction, not both ways), so every can turn right, without having to wait for people, then nearly get taken out by someone trying to run an amber, but runs a red (I see it every day in the CBD). Seems relatively sensible to me.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

The fact is they increase rear enders

I have to say the place I worked at was right in front of an intersection and I can't remember an accident that occurred at it before a camera was installed but seen plenty afterwards.

That's obviously due to people not sticking to following distances but I'd bet previously most people would have happily continued on instead of jamming on the stoppers to avoid a fine. Funny thing is most would have been ok anyway.

There were plenty of monumental lockups I can tell you :

[Brazen]

A few years back there was a report in Adelaide that showed where intersections had red light cameras installed, serious injuries increased dramatically.

[bobwm]

Originally Posted by mr smith

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...y-8648744.html

This is more of a concern than red light cameras. Try opting out of using Google or Microsoft...

The govt is for the people, have you had a chat with your local member? Maybe the majority are for speed and red light cameras. The only people I know who complain around the water cooler at work about being busted are the serial pea heads who think the world revolves around them.

Isn't that story about the US Government accessing data collected by companies from their users? Does that mean we agree about Governments overreaching when it comes to surveillance of its citizens (or in the case of your story, the citizens of foreign nations)?

But you think that red light cameras are good because the best way to modify someone's behaviour is a letter in the mail at some point in the future, carrying a fine and loss of points from their licence. Unless of course their income/wealth is such that the fine is insignificant. And maybe their vehicle is registered to a company and unless said company nominates them as the driver, they just pay more money to the government and they can keep doing it. That doesn't sound like revenue raising at all.

There's another possibility. Have some more police on the streets in the brightly coloured Falcons (at least for a few more years) and Commodores and when they see you running a red light they can pull you over, check your licence and write YOU a fine, not your car. And also them being around in their highly visible cars would be even more of a deterrent to running a red light, straight away. So even important people in a hurry could suffer the inconvenience and put their driving privileges in jeopardy.

But maybe you just meant you didn't like people who run red lights. I don't like people who do that either because it's dangerous. Maybe we agree on two things. We should be friends!

[SPArKy_Dave]

Traffic light countdown timers like they have in Asia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO23FomY0cc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPN6TfveX94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upq4KhHJKTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN9g1Jh-U1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNJl7UjGbrY

[Nikked]

I don't really have any problem with cameras...


Its the people that necessitate the implementation of the devices that are the real problem...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Nikked

I don't really have any problem with cameras...


Its the people that necessitate the implementation of the devices that are the real problem...

Yes but as always the do-gooders go overboard with their "solutions".

e.g. There are a VERY small number of people who fall into the category of pederasts. Some like to photograph children to feed their fantasies.

The do-gooder solution:

No parent is allowed to photograph or film any sporting or school event in which their child competes without the written permission of every singe parent or guardian of every other child who may appear in the same picture.

Of course the do-gooders will always argue "if it saves just one child from being photographed by a pederast........."

[GazzF6]

Originally Posted by flappist

So when a driver decides to stop at a red light and the idiot behind him is either following too closely or driving without due care thereby running into the vehicle in front this is because the first driver chose to stop at a red light rather than to continue through it endangering drivers on the cross road because it has a camera and he might get a ticket as well as being killed?

Hmmm....

Red light cameras and speed cameras are a good solution when they are VERY clearly marked and used in places where there is a potentially dangerous situation such as intersections or school zones.

All school zones should have speed cameras and video surveilance with large flashing red lights saying "SCHOOL ZONE ACTIVE SPEED LIMIT 40 WATCH OUT FOR CHILDREN YOU ARE BEING RECORDED" with all the fines going to the school so they will be closely monitored.

Unfortunately such methodology would only save lives not make lots of money so speed cameras have been perverted into tax sources by being hidden and placed in safe areas where they will raise the most revinue.

The do-gooders constantly dribble on about if you don't speed you would get fined (and I wonder why they did not just tell the victims of the holocost if they did not worship at a Synagogue or whatever they would not be murdered) but no one is the speed kills camp can explain these two facts:

1) Victoria, with umpty bazillion speed cameras has about the same road toll as the rest of Australia.

2) Each of these speed cameras book hundreds of thousands sometimes millions of cars every year. This means that at each of the cameras there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles that are speeding.
If, in fact, "speed kills" and there is absolutely no doubt at all that these cars are speeding why has there NOT BEEN EVEN ONE SINGLE DEATH IN FRONT OF A SPEED CAMERA?

Great post, agree 100% the sooner people take responsibility for their own actions the better. Did a driver training course recently; Fatigue is the big one, don't mind red light cameras but speed cameras at the bottom is hills is really not the way to go...

[malazn mafia]

Lately around NSW I've noticed I cannot read the License plates of many cars at night when headlights shine on them, either from an angle or side on. They appear to have a shiny coating or some kind of plastic cover. Are people obtaining anti-camera licence plate covers, or is this just a feature of NSW plates? The ones I see are mainly HC (hired chauffeur plates) or Black custom plates...

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by flappist

So when a driver decides to stop at a red light and the idiot behind him is either following too closely or driving without due care thereby running into the vehicle in front this is because the first driver chose to stop at a red light rather than to continue through it endangering drivers on the cross road because it has a camera and he might get a ticket as well as being killed?

Missus got rear-ended at a Stop sign in Port Melbourne a few years ago. The woman who rear-ended her got out, cracked it big time, and said "Your not supposed to STOP at the STOP sign."

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by flappist

The do-gooders constantly dribble on about if you don't speed you would get fined (and I wonder why they did not just tell the victims of the holocost if they did not worship at a Synagogue or whatever they would not be murdered) but no one is the speed kills camp can explain these two facts:

1) Victoria, with umpty bazillion speed cameras has about the same road toll as the rest of Australia

i do agree with your points that they have nothing to do with road safety as such
but i live in the state with all of those bazillion speed cameras and constantly speed . . . . and yet i don't get pinged
knowing where they are/may be and being aware of when they are there . . . . or to put it another way, concentrating when driving seems to do the trick for me

if i can see them, i am unsure why the countless others cannot - let them pay the tax. the money is much better in my pocket than theirs


my only hope is that the people who got the state in the position where speed camera revenue is the only way out are the ones paying this tax on stupidity

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Missus got rear-ended at a Stop sign in Port Melbourne a few years ago. The woman who rear-ended her got out, cracked it big time, and said "Your not supposed to STOP at the STOP sign."

I faced similer things...


Stopped a orange light (pretty much turned red when I got there) and was beeped at and gestured by a impatient courier...

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

What is wrong with red light cameras?

Running red lights is bad as the chances of hitting an innocent driver is exceedingly high. Like all things, they need to be used properly and for the right reasons. Red light cameras should be used to get those who do it on purpose.

Originally Posted by bobwm

you think that red light cameras are good because the best way to modify someone's behaviour is a letter in the mail at some point in the future?

Or because you know there's one at the intersection ahead, you DON'T run through it?

[|||]

classic govco