If Aussie large cars were $10K more

[carwant.com.au]

Whilst there are many claimed reasons for closing down local manufacturing, I still believe lack of profitability is the ultimate reason.

Anyone who owns a brand new Commodore/Falcon/Territory says they are world class cars, from design to build quality.

So looking at the topic from another angle, what if these cars were $10K more, which is probably the extra sell price needed to continue local manufacturing, as well as increased marketing.

Even though there is a global trend for smaller cars, there is also a trend for SUVs and large cars are still selling (other manufactures). Look at Jeep as an example, i dont believe they have any better build quality then our own (and i am sure there will be many that would say Jeep's quality is nothing like ours), yet there marketing campaign makes you want to jump on board.

Just like any organisation, you need a high enough sell price to make a profit, to then re-invest.

So whilst we can talk about other factors, if our cars were $10K more, would you buy them?

[Kable72]

They're only world class cars for the price they sell at.

[Express]

Originally Posted by carwant.com.au

.....if our cars were $10K more, would you buy them?

Reluctantly

[Franco Cozzo]

They're good value for what you get, but at $10K more probably not.

Mind you the FG seems to be a very reliable car and a big step up from BA/BF, they've been out since 2008 and I can count the amount of times me or my business partner (were both auto electricians) have worked on them on one hand.

Not even window motors or regulators.

At $10K more the interior needs to be a bit better for the FG I reckon and have HIDs.

[minheim]

I doubt that $10,000 would make a difference; infact it would have killed off sales quicker. Fleets would not wear the extra cost (and extra depreciation at sale time) and private buyers would be more likely to buy to a set price limit and go elsewhere for value or look for a "upmarket" badge. The reality is that to move falcons and commodores in numbers the factory had to discount and run limited editions. Also many consumers wanted more flexibility than a sedan or better fuel economy or a smaller car for parking etc. Sadly without an export market and supportive/visionary government the local industry was doomed. The days of a one size fits all market ended in the 70s or 80s.

[Franco Cozzo]

Maybe the other option could have been ship off the tooling to Thailand and have them build the Falcon for us, drop its price so an entry level model is $29,990 drive away?

Obviously we still design it locally but Thailand could build it for us?

I think the state governments should have been smarter, maybe subsidized the cost of registration (or no cost for them?) or remove taxes on Australian made cars at sale?

Might have been a better option then give the manufacturers money for silly things like the Ecoboost Falcon?

$40,000,000 buys you a lot of free registrations.

There needed to be more incentives for people to buy locally, its too late now essentially I'm just the dude playing the music on the titanic.

[TheInterceptor]

If they were $10k more they would still be rolling iron oxide in a few years.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by carwant.com.au

Look at Jeep as an example, i dont believe they have any better build quality then our own (and i am sure there will be many that would say Jeep's quality is nothing like ours), yet there marketing campaign makes you want to jump on board.

Jeep get bought because they are a cheap car, so they kind of go against your argument, as there is only a market because of the price point IMO.

Do you think they would sell if they were $10k more?

[mik]

Originally Posted by TheInterceptor

If they were $10k more they would still be rolling iron oxide in a few years.

I think you might be prone to exaggeration a bit mate, mines 15 years old and still rolling along ok.

[comagutsa]

Originally Posted by carwant.com.au

Whilst there are many claimed reasons for closing down local manufacturing, I still believe lack of profitability is the ultimate reason.

Anyone who owns a brand new Commodore/Falcon/Territory says they are world class cars, from design to build quality.

So looking at the topic from another angle, what if these cars were $10K more, which is probably the extra sell price needed to continue local manufacturing, as well as increased marketing.

Even though there is a global trend for smaller cars, there is also a trend for SUVs and large cars are still selling (other manufactures). Look at Jeep as an example, i dont believe they have any better build quality then our own (and i am sure there will be many that would say Jeep's quality is nothing like ours), yet there marketing campaign makes you want to jump on board.

Just like any organisation, you need a high enough sell price to make a profit, to then re-invest.

So whilst we can talk about other factors, if our cars were $10K more, would you buy them?

its call advertising.. jeeps sold bugger all till they came up with I brought a jeep on tv every 2 seconds
falcon no adds no sales

commodore still sell coz they advertise, maybe not as much as used to but times have changed and not everyone wants a big car

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Maybe the other option could have been ship off the tooling to Thailand and have them build the Falcon for us, drop its price so an entry level model is $29,990 drive away?

Did they drop the Focus pricing when they decided to make it in Thailand? No. And its sales are in the doldrums. Go Ford.

[naddis01]

10k more just means people would be paying RRP.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

10K more, would have killed them off faster, I think they are already overpriced for what they are and what you get, this being part of the reason sales went down the drain.

They don't hold value, so putting an extra 10K on a car that will be worth peanuts a few years down the track would reduce sales even more.

[The Yeti]

^^^^ what he said, add to that the poor quality control that plagued
The falcons of BA & BF and Australia looked else ware for their cars, things that were important like rear wheel drive etc became less so and te rest is history

Throwing 10K more at them would just make them more over priced

[simon varley]

people haven't bought them for the last ten years at any price. that's the problem.

[mike_nofx]

I think Falcon and Commodore sales would be better if every other car available were $10k more.

[Raptor]

What about if Falcodores had been $10k less

Then maybe enough cheap *** Aussies would have bought them instead of inferior imports and they would have sold in sufficient numbers to have the necessary economy of scale and the companies could have turned a profit that way.

We'll sadly never know.


.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Maybe the other option could have been ship off the tooling to Thailand and have them build the Falcon for us, drop its price so an entry level model is $29,990 drive away?

Obviously we still design it locally but Thailand could build it for us?

I think the state governments should have been smarter, maybe subsidized the cost of registration (or no cost for them?) or remove taxes on Australian made cars at sale?

Might have been a better option then give the manufacturers money for silly things like the Ecoboost Falcon?

$40,000,000 buys you a lot of free registrations.

There needed to be more incentives for people to buy locally, its too late now essentially I'm just the dude playing the music on the titanic.

When manufacturers move production to Thailand they don't seem to drop the prices :-)

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Raptor

What about if Falcodores had been $10k less

Then maybe enough cheap *** Aussies would have bought them instead of inferior imports and they would have sold in sufficient numbers to have the necessary economy of scale and the companies could have turned a profit that way.

We'll sadly never know.


.

But the thing is they arnt inferior any more, in many cases they are far superior in terms of reliability, & re sale,

[carwant.com.au]

It's an interesting debate and like Raptor said, we would never know.
The Jeep debate is also interesting. As comagutsa says 'jeeps sold bugger all till they came up with I brought a jeep on tv every 2 seconds', which is true. It doesn't mean Jeep is a better built vehicle, it just shows what effect mass marketing has on sales.

Lets say an average 'street price' Commodore or Falcon sells for $35-$40k, if the price was $45-$50k, what other alternatives are out there? I still believe they both have world class engineering, and i can only talk from experience driving many brands over the years.

Think about what the extra $10k could do? Firstly, (and i haven't done the maths...) they possibly need about $3-4k set aside to make the company viable (as well as higher volumes).

With the extra $6-7k, they could pump that back into marketing, and maybe more standard features. Additional marketing develops stronger 'perceived' value, which turns into higher sales.

I just wonder if the senior managers ever looked at this scenario (raising the price to add value and make a profit), or did they just look at the 'unfortunate normal' scenario when a company is losing money and just think about cutting corners and overall costs (which is just short term thinking IMO)

[wodahs]

so where do you go ?
add ten k and sell less and hope the more profit each unit has covers the lack of sales or drop ten k and hope with the little you make per unit the volume of sales keeps profit up ? wheres the balance esp when the public see other items that they perceive to either be better for their price or cheap enough to put up with what they are in quality

as Raptor said, we would never know.

[Express]

Only a foolish manufacturer becomes stagnant inviting their customer base to look around.

If those customers find something else they like or something that can do just as good or a better job then they’ll rarely ever come back.

They misread the market and dropped the ball and were to slow to pick it up again.

If Falcon and Commodore didn’t have affordable performance based models in their stables they would have been dead long ago regardless of price.

[Express]

I was talking with a Holden salesperson yesterday and they said Evoke, Calais, Utes & SV6 will start to be dropped in that order from the Commodore range soon and only SV6 and SS variants will be available towards the second half of 2016.

After the initial new model flutter they don’t expect there to be much interested in anything other than the SS and in particular the Redline which will also only make it to the end of 2016.

They have been watching Falcon and expect the Commodore to meet early death.

They said most people who come into the showroom aren’t even interested in looking at Commodores any more.

[danzvtil]

[QUOTE=carwant.com.au;5519795]
So looking at the topic from another angle, what if these cars were $10K more, which is probably the extra sell price needed to continue local manufacturing, as well as increased marketing.

QUOTE]

We had those conditions back in the 80s and 90s, aussie cars protected by tarrifs, the offer was rubbish (EA FALC anyone).
You make the misguided assumption that all other brands will add 10K to their cars too, its really a straw grasping exercise, look at another brand protected behind a tariff wall in its home turf-Proton- when you are the only choice, you have no commercial incentive to make it better.

[zilo]

If Holden and Ford were $10k more it would simply be moved offshore to their American shareholders.

Simple....if you don't employ Aussies to make your cars don't expect us to buy your asian crap when other asian crap is cheaper..

Focus,Mondeo,Barina,Captiva, Ranger...blah blah....poor excuses for expecting loyalty by aussie workers.

The government sees no value in fleet buying them either.

Camry will be the last man standing.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Express

I was talking with a Holden salesperson yesterday and they said Evoke, Calais, Utes & SV6 will start to be dropped in that order from the Commodore range soon and only SV6 and SS variants will be available towards the second half of 2016.

After the initial new model flutter they don’t expect there to be much interested in anything other than the SS and in particular the Redline which will also only make it to the end of 2016.

They have been watching Falcon and expect the Commodore to meet early death.

They said most people who come into the showroom aren’t even interested in looking at Commodores any more.

Commodore (V8 wagon) is the only thing I would look at in a
Holden showroom :-) .

[csv8]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Commodore (V8 wagon) is the only thing I would look at in a
Holden showroom :-) .

The Calais V V8 wagon is only $55k drive away..Bargain!!!!

[outback_ute]

I don't think an extra $10k per unit would be enough to pay for continued platform development with the current volume for Commodore, let alone Falcon. I don't think that sub-luxury rwd cars sell well enough to be viable ongoing either, unfortunately.

[csv8]

Hows this for radical idea ? Holden and Ford amalgamate...Ford build the family car and Holden build the sports cars. Ford build the entry level, mid and top luxury model. Holden build the SV6,SS and Redline. Holden use the XR6 turbo in the SV6....would it work ?????

[Express]

Originally Posted by tempted

No offence, but whoever told you that has fed you the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. I have been looking into ordering a Redline in 2017 and have been told that production will definitely run until the end of 2017. They will even be stockpiling cars for sale well into 2018.

It came from an old friend who owns a large Sydney dealership who has formulated his 2017 business model based on projections given to him from inside the Holden network.

Of cause Holden will not confirm it and why would they, they have a product they are still advertising and won’t want to risk giving it the death knell but that doesn’t stop insider information being handed out to help businesses that have been in partnership with them for decades.

Simply they are going to concentrate on the model variants that are selling and one by one finalise those that are not.

For example there is no point stockpiling thousands of Evokes for sale after the completion of manufacturing if they are struggling to sell them while they’re still in production.

My local dealership told me similar to what you've heard and that they are struggling to keep up with orders for the new VF2.

I don’t take offence at what people say in regard to my comments, after all this is it’s just an internet Forum and everyone has an opinion but I’ll just sit back and see what hand time deals and if you’re right then good for you.

Oh if you do notice the Holden ads on television they are of the Redline, nothing else.