Now here's an alternative view on Cycling.

[aussiblue]

http://business.financialpost.com/op...moting-cycling

London, where former mayor Boris Johnston began a “cycling revolution,” shows where the road to ruin can lead. Although criticism of biking remains largely taboo among the city’s elite, a bike backlash is underway, with many blaming the city’s worsening congestion on the proliferation of bike lanes. While bikes have the luxury of zipping through traffic using dedicated lanes that are vastly underused most of the day — these include what Transport for London (TfL) calls “cycle superhighways” — cars have been squeezed into narrowed spaces that slow traffic to a crawl.

Cars have been squeezed into narrowed spaces that slow traffic to a crawl

SNIP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The indirect costs of cycling also loom large because cycling lanes typically displace lanes that formerly accommodated street parking, especially outside rush-hour periods. Businesses that rely on street parking for their customers are often bitter at seeing their sales gutted. Cities not only lose revenue from street parking, they also lose revenue from public transit because — anecdotally, at least — people are switching to bikes more from public transit than from cars. And because the demand for parking hasn’t vanished, cities now find themselves levelling buildings on main streets and side streets in favour of parking lots. In effect, the varied uses to which the lanes adjacent to the sidewalk were once put — for car and bike traffic during rush hour and for parking benefitting delivery vehicles, local businesses and their patrons at other times — has devolved into a single-function piece of under-used pavement.

In a user-pay or market economy, where users pay for the services they consume, bicycle lanes would be non-starters outside college campuses and other niche settings. If roads were tolled to recover the cost of asphalt and maintenance, no cyclist could bear the burden he foists on society. The cyclist has been put on the dole, made a taker rather than a giver to society.

[Maka]

We are already seeing the future by the current policies in place now...

Green taxpaying London cbd cyclists now about to be thrown 'under the bus' to help save the UK economy, problem is there's no room under the bus anymore..

Sounds like the struggling London cbd shop owners were left out of any consultation process or were ignored completely.

Nothing unusual there, not surprising either..

cheers, Maka

[Wretched]

Melbourne is also approaching this way of thinking.

With the removal of many car parks and car lanes, getting into the CBD is a pain.
Thankfully we've discovered local suburban shops, cafes, pubs and restaurants are just as good if not better than those in the CBD without the hassle of travel and attitude. A lot of others are also seeing this. Now I only go to the CBD for work.

[malazn mafia]

Cycling on busy public roads is the work of the devil. Cycling is a child's hobby best reserved for the footpath, playground, back suburban streets or through the park or forest. Any self respecting person wouldn't put his life and safety on the line by riding a 2 wheeled flimsy hollow metal frame on a roadway carrying solid moving objects weighing infinitely more, piloted by fallible human beings. The draft caused by a B-double travelling past at a mere 60kph is enough to suck a car door wide open, Imagine what it would do to an unfortunate cyclist riding by on his flimsy 2 wheeled widow maker...

[lucas2]

Perhaps they could run it similar to how they run clearway zones during peak hour here? Leave it as a bicycle lane between 6-9am and 4-6pm but allow street parking during all other times? London is most likely always busy which may make it very hard to implement.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Cycling on busy public roads is the work of the devil. Cycling is a child's hobby best reserved for the footpath, playground, back suburban streets or through the park or forest. Any self respecting person wouldn't put his life and safety on the line by riding a 2 wheeled flimsy hollow metal frame on a roadway carrying solid moving objects weighing infinitely more, piloted by fallible human beings. The draft caused by a B-double travelling past at a mere 60kph is enough to suck a car door wide open, Imagine what it would do to an unfortunate cyclist riding by on his flimsy 2 wheeled widow maker...

Child's hobby, you have no idea.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Cycling on busy public roads is the work of the devil. Cycling is a child's hobby best reserved for the footpath, playground, back suburban streets or through the park or forest. Any self respecting person wouldn't put his life and safety on the line by riding a 2 wheeled flimsy hollow metal frame on a roadway carrying solid moving objects weighing infinitely more, piloted by fallible human beings. The draft caused by a B-double travelling past at a mere 60kph is enough to suck a car door wide open, Imagine what it would do to an unfortunate cyclist riding by on his flimsy 2 wheeled widow maker...

To be honest, i have more of an issue with the motorised versions of the 2 wheeled variety. The ones that lane split at well over 60klmh in slow moving traffic and weave in and out of traffic with scant regard for anything else going around them.

Ban everything with just 2 wheels i reckon.....
Wait ban trucks as well, they are too slow, hold up traffic and cause heaps of congestion as well as over represented wear and tear on our roads.
Dont get me started on the elderly.... should be license checked every 6 months.... actually bugger it... get em off the road, slow reaction times, they hit accelerator instaed of brakes and are just plain loony.

4WD.... bugger them too. Too big and slow, older models bellow diesel and the &@)(n noise some of them make not to mention how much side room parking space at the shops they hog up.... ban them

The moron morning late for school drop off mums !!!! Scant regard for anything that breathes and even more lethal when behind the wheel of a high riding 4WD. Self entitlement and ignorance on steroids. Ban them.

Buses, woohoo. Ban them. Who needs slow moving constant stop start pieces of $&@t that are designed to carry 40 people with seldom more than 3 people jamming our narrow suburban goat tracks.

Oh man, the roads are a war zone hey. Those poor bike riders need to contend with all these morons. I feel sorry for them.

[R12RT]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Cycling on busy public roads is the work of the devil. Cycling is a child's hobby best reserved for the footpath, playground, back suburban streets or through the park or forest. Any self respecting person wouldn't put his life and safety on the line by riding a 2 wheeled flimsy hollow metal frame on a roadway carrying solid moving objects weighing infinitely more, piloted by fallible human beings. The draft caused by a B-double travelling past at a mere 60kph is enough to suck a car door wide open, Imagine what it would do to an unfortunate cyclist riding by on his flimsy 2 wheeled widow maker...

You really have no idea.

I have been riding my bicycle while being passed by a B-double doing 100kmph. The draft didn't move me off my line at all.

But obviously I'm not self respecting.

[aussiblue]

This bit has some resonance:

Some of the bike backlash — resentment at the privileged position of cyclists, who are notorious for flouting the rules of the road without contributing their fair share — manifests itself as economic penalty. Oregon, which has a high proportion of cyclists, recently became the first state to levy a sales tax on new bicycles, even though Oregon has no general sales tax. Legislators “felt that bicycles ought to contribute to the system,” explained a state senator who co-wrote the bill, expressing a sentiment widely held across the continent.

The most telling opposition to cyclists, though, may be cultural. They are often seen as an entitled, smug and affected minority. In the U.K., cyclists are mocked as “mamils” (middle-aged men in Lycra); in U.S. inner cities they’re seen as the preserve of “white men with white-collar jobs” furthering gentrification. Almost everywhere they’re seen as discourteous, and as threats to the safety of pedestrians.

I used to cycle to work in the late 60 and very early 70's and still ride occasionally so I do have some sympathies for cyclists but am annoyed by

a) the ones that race along the CBD streets and footpaths seemingly oblivious to pedestrians;
b) those that bring them on the train in the peak hours when they are banned in Perth and scrape your legs with bikes and occupy a second seat with their backpack or sit their sweaty smelly Lycra bodies nest to you after they have sprinted to the station;
c) those groups of cyclist who think it's OK to clog the whole road width (however many lanes) so you can't safely pass;
e) those who disobey the road rules (particularly traffic lights and stop and give way signs) endangering pedestrians and putting themselves at risk of collision with cars;
f) those that drive without before sunup and after sunset without lights and expects drivers to be able to see them; and
g) those of shared cycle pedestrian paths who seem to think they have priority over pedestrians and that the path is a race track.

I used to inline skate for a while and some cyclists often deliberately and unnecessarily pushed you off the road while coming towards you (they and everything else actually legally have right of way over skaters on paths in WA and knew it) which meant you ended up in the sand head over tit.

When I do cycle, and it has been a few years now (mostly at night and I do have lights - lit up like a Christmas tree even and mainly use suburban footpaths or cycle ways) I do get ****ed off by the motorists who:

a) When you are on the road, try and buzz you and pass as close as possible while blowing their horn and/or throwing empty cans or stubbies at you (encouragement for wearing my helmet I guess); and/or
b) Insist on putting their lights on full beam as they drive towards you (makes it hard to see cycle obstructions like posts that the council insist in randomly putting in the middle of dual use paths and storm-water cover grates that have their bars parallel to the direction of travel so they can trap tyres).

[aussiblue]

Where and why did it all go wrong? Most of last century, up to sometime in the early 60's I suspect, cycle to car ratio was much greater than it is now but as I remember it (50, 60, and 70's at least in WA), there was much more mutual respect and politeness from motorists and cyclist up to the 1990's and cyclist complied with the road laws. Some of the differences as I recall them were:
a) there were no dedicated cycle paths,
b) adults on cycles weren't allowed on footpaths;
c) only the few racing cyclists wore helmets (then of the padded or leather variety),
e) most children cycled to schools and a vast majority of the working and even a lot of the middle class cycled to work;
f) most cycles had permanent generator driven lights fitted;
g) up to sometime in the 50's all cycles (in WA) were registered and number plated;
h) bikes were mostly heavy steel bodied devices;
i) there was no Lycra, just cotton sports gear for the racing cyclists and most people commuting wore their suits or normal day wear etc.;
j) bikes weren't allowed on trains or buses;
k) motor traffic generally was probably not as heavy due to the greater use of cycles and public transport;
l) traffic lights were probably less common except in the CDB; and
j) pedestrian traffic in the CDB was probably greater (before the advent of suburban shopping centres).

Does Lycra and lighter weight cycles do something to people? Well I guess in those old days the lack of helmets made both sides appreciate the vulnerability of cyclists, most motorist were also cyclist or had recently been cyclists so had more empathy for cyclists, life was slower paced and courtesy was in fact more common, people were generally not so self involved/engaged, and cycles stayed out of the way of pedestrians and public transport commuters. I guess we can't turn back the clock but we have lost something along the way.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Melbourne is also approaching this way of thinking.

With the removal of many car parks and car lanes, getting into the CBD is a pain.
Thankfully we've discovered local suburban shops, cafes, pubs and restaurants are just as good if not better than those in the CBD without the hassle of travel and attitude. A lot of others are also seeing this. Now I only go to the CBD for work.

Newcastle is going this way too.
People complained there is never any inner city parking and too much traffic so they decided to rip up the railway out of the rail corridor, then replace it with a tram up the main street which no one is going to use and there will be even less room for cars and parking.
At least they will get some money once they sell off most of the rail corridor land to developers.
They wonder why inner city shops are deserted and closing down while suburban shopping centres are packed.

[prydey]

It's just like the news and current affairs programs. Every few weeks/months, just rehash the same stories to enrage the masses and get attention.

I guess AFF hasn't had a cyclist bash thread for a while.

[aussiblue]

I guess AFF hasn't had a cyclist bash thread for a while

It wasn't meant to be a "cyclist bash thread"; I just thought it was an interesting new perspective. Still digging deeper the organisation and person behind this article that I found on my daily look at Canada's Nation Post headlines has a background and interest that might suggest a possible bias.

Most recently, with Lawrence Solomon’s blockbuster book, The Deniers, Energy Probe has led the charge that the science of man-made global warming is not settled and defended those scientists who work to enlighten and inform the debate.

and

About Us
Energy Probe Research Foundation is one of Canada’s leading environmental and public policy research institutes.

It has four main goals:

to provide the public, media, business, and government with information on resource-related issues;
to promote sustainable resource use;
to encourage individual responsibility and accountability;
to help Canada contribute to global justice and prosperity.

and

Lawrence Solomon, Managing Director, EPRF, and Executive Director, Energy Probe and Urban Renaissance Institute

Lawrence Solomon, a co-founder of EPRF, is one of Canada’s leading environmentalists. An advisor to President Carter’s Task Force on the Global Environment (the Global 2000 Report) in the late 1970’s, he has since been at the forefront of movements to reform foreign aid, stop nuclear power expansion, save the world’s forests, restructure the electricity sector, convert free roads to toll roads, and counter global warming alarmism.

Lawrence is author or co-author of seven books, including The Conserver Solution (Doubleday 1978), Energy Shock (Doubleday 1980), In the Name of Progress (Doubleday 1985, 1991), Breaking Up Ontario Hydro’s Monopoly (Energy Probe 1982), Power at What Cost (Doubleday 1984), Toronto Sprawls (University of Toronto Press 2007) and, most recently, The Deniers (Richard Vigilante Books 2008, 2010). He is a columnist with the National Post and has been a columnist for the Globe and Mail, a syndicated columnist, a contributor to the Wall Street Journal, and the editor and publisher of the award-winning The Next City magazine.

So very nearly a Canadian Mike Nahan and the Canadian equal to the Australian Institute of Public Affairs.

[aussiblue]

your intentions may be pure, but it will certainly end up as a 'cyclist bash'.

Don't think I have ever been accused of having pure intentions ever before :-) Must be a mistake. In truth I was probably "stirring" or at least seeking to provoke debate.

Besides I see on the 'net "pure intentions" defined as follows:

To do something with pure intentions means to be completely non-conflicted with your intentions

So even completely evil intentions could be "pure intentions" .

[GasoLane]

This thread is about bike lanes, not bike riders.

If you want to comment on cyclists behaviour, try Whirlpool.

[ratter]

I’m pretty sure that an Idiot on a bike is still an idiot in their car or even truck if they drive one.
I’m just glad that no motorists ever break the road rules otherwise it would make most the complainers hypocrites

[SumoDog68]

Alternative view on cycling that claims that bike lanes cause car congestion ? I don't see any bike lanes on Tulla , Bolte , Ring road or Westgate and sure it is congested . Keep peddling misinformation as if there is not enough cyclist hate around already .

[prydey]

The idea behind reducing car lanes and increasing other options(trams, cycles etc), is trying to reduce the number of cars on the road, as they are extremely inefficient at transporting people. Most cars only have one occupant.

I'm not in total agreement with this ideology but that is generally the thought process behind it. Most cbd's still have fairly standard business hours also which equals majority of people all starting and finishing at the same time.

To blame the congestion on reduced car space would be considered backward thinking by the people that come up with the ideas to try to reduce cars.

[cheap]

Brisbane City Council spent millions appeasing the greenie/bike riding fraternity, we have dozens of bike hire spots throughout the CBD, on any given day 95% of these bikes are simply not used. Complete waste of taxpayer money.

[Uncle_Ken]

My son was off work for a week and had to wear a boot for a month because he tripped over one crossing the road.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

This thread is about bike lanes, not bike riders.

If you want to comment on cyclists behaviour, try Whirlpool.

You may as well shut it down or you'll be deleting every 2nd comment.

[UTXR8]

lol......

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by prydey

You may as well shut it down or you'll be deleting every 2nd comment.

Actually I was hoping that we'd have more grownups on here.

[UTXR8]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Actually I was hoping that we'd have more grownups on here.

you a cyclist per chance?....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Actually I was hoping that we'd have more grownups on here.

That'd be nice but just the mention of the word cyclist in the title will cause it to closer resemble kindergarten than adults.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by UTXR8

you a cyclist per chance?....

Yes, I last rode a bike about 40 years ago.

[Crazy Dazz]

Yes, bikes are a menace, but its not just bike lanes.
The bureaucrats, with nothing better to waste our money on, spend their time dreaming up increasingly ridiculous nonsolutions.
The fundamental problem in cities, and on inner-suburban highways, is that there just isn't enough space to go around. So every time you dream up something new, like a bike lane, or bus lane, or contraflow lane, or kerbside parking, or alfresco areas, you have to steal the space off something else.

[UTXR8]

careful...you'll get deleted....

[UTXR8]

be careful....you'll get deleted.....

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by cheap

Brisbane City Council spent millions appeasing the greenie/bike riding fraternity, we have dozens of bike hire spots throughout the CBD, on any given day 95% of these bikes are simply not used. Complete waste of taxpayer money.

For CityCycle to work there needs to be bikes sitting there unused.
If they're all out, then when someone comes along looking for one, they can't.

I lived in West End and cycled to my job in the city, something I only did because of dedicated bike lanes away from cars.

Mostly I rode my bike, but I also had a CityCycle subscription and used it quite often. I can tell you, plenty of people use it. There wouldn't be a day I rode that I didn't pass others on the CityCycle bikes. If I rode to work with one the same bike would be gone when I finished work, not sitting there unused all day. (I always tried to get the same bike, because I had the seat set up for me from the morning)


The article also goes on about revenue lost due to people not pulling up outside of a shop and dashing in for some milk, or whatever they're on about.
That sort of thing might happen in some cities, but Brisbane? Yeah nah. Good luck finding a spot right outside the shop you're after, and it's got nothing to do with the odd CityCycle station.

Anyhow, if the article is correct and revenue is being lost because people aren't catching public transport anymore and drivers can't get street parks, then revenue is increasing because people are having to use parking stations, and have you seen their fees?