Class action against Toyota

[Rob 351]

Surprising no one has mentioned this.....

https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news...culate-filters

[Brazen]

The problem is with modern diesel vehicles generally

People are moving back to petrol which may shake up the Ute market

V8 petrol Nissan Patrol is slowly becoming a smash hit and I bet others will follow

[stefcio007]

adding a manual override button to the HiLux, Prado and Fortuner to force the DPF to regenerate on demand

Why doesn't every diesel have this? Seems like an extremely useful thing to have if you end up doing more city driving start-stop for whatever reason.

[BENT_8]

I cant see it succeeding.
Toyota have acknowledged the issue and have offered to fit manual switches to vehicles.
From what I can tell the issue isn't with the DPF itself, but rather the way in which the vehicle is used, if only driven in urban areas the DPF wont regenerate, the question is, does the owners manual state that a regular trip at highway speeds is required to keep the DPF working properly.

If it does then apart from adding the manual switch, im not sure what more Toyota could do as it would be up to the owner to ensure the DPF regen requirements are met.
As for loss of earnings etc. whilst Toyota is offering to fit the manual switch, its not because the DPF system is faulty, its because the owners haven't met the requirements, so the need to have the switch fitted is due to consumer misuse.

Some of our buses have manual DPF switches in case they get stuck doing short, low speed trips. Its a pain in the **** to stop and activate as it can take up to 30mins to complete, but a necessary evil on modern diesels.

[XR Martin]

Yes it's due to short trips, but at the end of the day that's what a lot of people do. If a vehicle isn't suitable for what a lot of people do, it's not fit for purpose.
I don't blame Toyota, all late model diesels can have this problem.
Even petrols too, especially direct injected ones. The head gets carboned up.

[CyberWasp]

The only class action that works is at the dealer show room.
If people keep buying them, and it is the #1 selling vehicle in the country, then there is no problem to fix.

[Rob 351]

I see John Catogan is a big fan of the Hilux.
I remember him giving it to the Mustang a couple of years ago and I reckon he’s even harder on the Hilux..
He’s a strange character that’s for sure..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=janbEkbuFQ8

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I cant see it succeeding.



As for loss of earnings etc. whilst Toyota is offering to fit the manual switch, its not because the DPF system is faulty, its because the owners haven't met the requirements, so the need to have the switch fitted is due to consumer misuse.

I can see it succeeding. Look at the action ACCC took against Ford regarding the power shift debacle.

What requirements have the owners not met, more so, what part of the owners manual has an owner not met? Please cite the section you’re referencing.

The ACCC will have Toyota by the balls for selling this junk of an engine in a laughable product line up. I mean really, who buys this garbage from Toyota? The only decent product they’ve on the market is the LC200 TTV8 diesel. And that engine is outperformed by every European manufacturer.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Brazen

V8 petrol Nissan Patrol is slowly becoming a smash hit and I bet others will follow

What’s “slowly becoming a smash hit” mean 🤣

[Sprintey]

this is the one feature (the diesel motor and its regens/white smoke) that would hold me back from buying one of these. Pity there is no 4.0V6 Prado and that the 4.6URJ has been discontinued in the LC200 (or so I've heard)

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Romulus

I can see it succeeding. Look at the action ACCC took against Ford regarding the power shift debacle.

What requirements have the owners not met, more so, what part of the owners manual has an owner not met? Please cite the section you’re referencing.

The ACCC will have Toyota by the balls for selling this junk of an engine in a laughable product line up. I mean really, who buys this garbage from Toyota? The only decent product they’ve on the market is the LC200 TTV8 diesel. And that engine is outperformed by every European manufacturer.

Are you feeling alright?
You quote part of my post and omit the part where I say 'the question is, does the owners manual state that a regular trip at highway speeds is required to keep the DPF working properly.'

And then ask me to cite something I've just questioned myself.

Never once did I say it was in the manual, I questioned if it may have been and wouldn't be surprised if it is as its common knowledge that DPF's require certain conditions to regen.
I was simply saying that if it is, IF IT IS, then Toyota will no doubt say had the owners read the requirements of a vehicle fitted with a DPF, they would know what is expected.

The ACCC took action against Ford because initially Ford refused to make permanent fixes resulting in repeated issues, the box cant be permanently fixed, nor will the box perform normally if the user follows guidelines from the users manual, it is a design fault and recent internal correspondence has come to prove it.
The two things are in no way similar.

You sound butt hurt to be honest.

[fiestaz]

So a couple of Points here.

The short trips aren’t the issue in some cases. Extensive highway use is seeing the dpf fail or smoke etc. Then problems are also being experienced with urban use that aren’t short trips.

The manual states it wants 65-80kmh conditions to do a regen. (Great for those in the country......).

Excessive fuel consumption is also an issue apparently. Especially on highways where low teens/100kms is being experienced. Stock vehicles.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

The manual states it wants 65-80kmh conditions to do a regen. (Great for those in the country......).

So the manual actually describes the conditions it requires to do a regen, if that's the case and it does regen consistently under those conditions then it would be up to the owner to meet those conditions.

Our buses have the regen instructions printed on the drivers sun visor like the instructions for airbag use does in cars, it clearly states if you don't do what it says when required it will cause issues.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The ACCC took action against Ford because initially Ford refused to make permanent fixes resulting in repeated issues, the box cant be permanently fixed, nor will the box perform normally if the user follows guidelines from the users manual, it is a design fault and recent internal correspondence has come to prove it.
The two things are in no way similar.

You sound butt hurt to be honest.

The ACCC got Ford because they told customers it was the way they drive the car. This is where they breached the law. Toyota won't get done by the ACCC because they have added a 'fix' to the car.

Ford's class action is still ongoing. I doubt it will go anywhere....like this one.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So the manual actually describes the conditions it requires to do a regen, if that's the case and it does regen consistently under those conditions then it would be up to the owner to meet those conditions.

Our buses have the regen instructions printed on the drivers sun visor like the instructions for airbag use does in cars, it clearly states if you don't do what it says when required it will cause issues.

Correct yes, but from what I read and hear, even when adhering to the manual, they are still failing. It sounds like no matter what conditions your drive them in, it is still a problem

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Are you feeling alright?
You quote part of my post and omit the part where I say 'the question is, does the owners manual state that a regular trip at highway speeds is required to keep the DPF working properly.'

And then ask me to cite something I've just questioned myself.

Never once did I say it was in the manual, I questioned if it may have been and wouldn't be surprised if it is as its common knowledge that DPF's require certain conditions to regen.
I was simply saying that if it is, IF IT IS, then Toyota will no doubt say had the owners read the requirements of a vehicle fitted with a DPF, they would know what is expected.

The ACCC took action against Ford because initially Ford refused to make permanent fixes resulting in repeated issues, the box cant be permanently fixed, nor will the box perform normally if the user follows guidelines from the users manual, it is a design fault and recent internal correspondence has come to prove it.
The two things are in no way similar.

You sound butt hurt to be honest.

Too many assumptions in your reply.

Let's be clear. Does the manual state the owner MUST drive the vehicle in a specified manner in order for the vehicle to do a DPF regeneration? Describing conditions when the vehicle will enter a DPF regen is irrelevant.

If the owners manual does not instruct the owner to drive the vehicle in a specified way for a DPF regen to occur then the issue with the DPF lies totally with Toyota. Just look at the type of people who drive these vehicles, you think they'd read, let alone be capable of reading and understanding the owners manual? That's why they drive Toyota

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Let's be clear. Does the manual state the owner MUST drive the vehicle in a specified manner in order for the vehicle to do a DPF regeneration? Describing conditions when the vehicle will enter a DPF regen is irrelevant.

Well if you bother to read Fiestaz posts apparently the manual does instruct the owners to drive in a certain manner.

Originally Posted by Romulus

Too many assumptions in your reply.

Originally Posted by Romulus

Just look at the type of people who drive these vehicles, you think they'd read, let alone be capable of reading and understanding the owners manual? That's why they drive Toyota

There's a fair few assumptions in your post there too, but at least mine weren't condescending and ignorant like yours.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The ACCC got Ford because they told customers it was the way they drive the car. This is where they breached the law. Toyota won't get done by the ACCC because they have added a 'fix' to the car.

Ford's class action is still ongoing. I doubt it will go anywhere....like this one.

Ok, I guess the difference is unless im mistaken there is no instructions in the Ford manual which explains how the PS box should be used, whereas if Fiestaz is correct Toyota have included the regen instructions in their manual.

I doubt it will go anywhere either, its just Lawyers trying to promote themselves on the big stage.

[Jack91]

So if someone walked into a dealership wanting a new Hilux with all the fruit and told the salesman he's only ever going to use it around town, will the salesman tell him not to buy it?
Doubt it.
Dpf systems are a joke and it's actually made new diesels a really bad choice.

[fiestaz]

Another theory is Toyota’s DPFs regen based on algorithm rather than a pressure sensor. So often the computer is getting this muddled up and thinks the DPF is empty when it’s actually nearly full, causing smoking, limp modes etc.

[Romulus]

According to Cadogan the issue lies with the 5th injector, either being jammed open or closed, causing DPF failure. Driving style has no impact on an inherent design flaw.

[danzvtil]

I’m gonna play devils advocate, but years ago I was in an old car the got defected for excessive exhaust smoke. Is it possible these hiluxes aren’t even roadworthy when blowing this smoke. Read that again, Toyota in the present day is selling a car that does not meet roadworthy criteria.

[Craig@AUDI]

Still feeling it?



Oh what a feeling!

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Romulus

According to Cadogan the issue lies with the 5th injector, either being jammed open or closed, causing DPF failure. Driving style has no impact on an inherent design flaw.

And he even mentioned how Toyota has released the information on how to remove the PDF altogether. This was being done to vehicles on mine sites as well as customer cars.

Emissions anyone??

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Romulus

According to Cadogan the issue lies with the 5th injector, either being jammed open or closed, causing DPF failure. Driving style has no impact on an inherent design flaw.

If that was mentioned by anyone I might believe it, but from him?....

[BENT_8]

I drive for a gig and I have not seen this white smoke once, not once and where I drive the majority of the time is an area of high Asian content where every second car is a Toyota of some kind.

Whilst im not saying its not a real issue, I don't think its as wide spread as many are portraying and if its not every example doing it, its either not a design fault or they'd all do it at some stage, or its to do with how its being driven.
Im leaning towards the latter by simple logic.

Does anyone know if the manual switch fitted by Toyota is doing the job?

[JasonACT]

I've seen it precisely once, I noted that it was a Toyota, and before reading here I thought, wow that must have a lot of k's on the clock.

[Romulus]

There’s an abundance of Orix lease Hilux’s on the Northlink project in the north eastern area of Perth. The number of these piles of junk blowing more smoke than a steam locomotive is a joke. I’m surprised they haven’t been issued defect notices yet.

There’s a cultural issue visible with this manufacturer. Deny everything to save face. Reminds me of Fukushima, on a smaller scale obviously.

[rjk74]

Seen it a couple of times, first time a duel cab towing a trady trailer and a single cab tray which l see quite often, the single cab belongs to a company installing cable barriers along the Calder hwy, going up a hill with a trailer it smokes like a train.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

I see John Catogan is a big fan of the Hilux.
I remember him giving it to the Mustang a couple of years ago and I reckon he’s even harder on the Hilux..
He’s a strange character that’s for sure..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=janbEkbuFQ8

Maybe an actual consumer advocate? Just watched that and it was good journalism. It was one of his earlier stories on yt that had a mining engineer comment on his dept's experience with the DPF, them doing flow testing and then re-engineering it (from memory) - all really valuable information.