Vfacts January 2020

[BENT_8]

More of the same unfortunately.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...o-2020-122702/

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

More of the same unfortunately.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...o-2020-122702/

Actually with the change to how sales are reported for Vfacts we have to allow for a drop as the practice of adding "demo" models to the reported sales figures has been eliminated. Could explain the massive Holden and Hilux drops.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Actually with the change to how sales are reported for Vfacts we have to allow for a drop as the practice of adding "demo" models to the reported sales figures has been eliminated. Could explain the massive Holden and Hilux drops.

So now, they count actual sales instead of just registrations?
Good, It should even out sales in the long run as all demos are eventually sold.

Everest 490, a reasonable result considering current circumstances

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So now, they count actual sales instead of just registrations?
Good, It should even out sales in the long run as all demos are eventually sold.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/824240/...sales-results/

From article -

"But perhaps more relevant to this audience, the FCAI also commenced a new reporting process designed to stamp out the OEM and dealer practice of reporting cars as sold when they are not to hit stretch targets."

"This process compares data supplied by car companies with national registration databases."

[DFB FGXR6]

Ford Numbers -

Ford EcoSport 15
Ford Endura 129
Ford Escape 235
Ford Everest 490
Ford Focus 181
Ford Mondeo 19
Ford Mustang 258
Ford Ranger 4X2 178
Ford Ranger 4X4 2,446
Ford Transit Custom 164
Ford Transit Heavy 54
Ford Total 4,169

Overall Ranger sales were up on the same month last year.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

https://www.caradvice.com.au/824240/...sales-results/

From article -

"But perhaps more relevant to this audience, the FCAI also commenced a new reporting process designed to stamp out the OEM and dealer practice of reporting cars as sold when they are not to hit stretch targets."

"This process compares data supplied by car companies with national registration databases."

Ah, thanks for that. Still registrations but stopping auto companies
calling vehicles sold when they are not just to make sales numbers
look better than they are

[BENT_8]

They'll find ways around it, case in point this Focus ad.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mile...ack/1239474019

Zooper cars is a branch of the Stillwell group I believe, somehow they've managed to come across 40 near new Focus in a bulk buy, whats the chances that these all came from their Ford franchise.
Note the Km's on this one, its still a new car being sold through a used car yard.
How do you sell a new car through a non franchised outlet and why would you.
My money's on it being 'sold and registered' and then sent to the used yard to actually move.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

They'll find ways around it, case in point this Focus ad.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mile...ack/1239474019

Zooper cars is a branch of the Stillwell group I believe, somehow they've managed to come across 40 near new Focus in a bulk buy, whats the chances that these all came from their Ford franchise.
Note the Km's on this one, its still a new car being sold through a used car yard.
How do you sell a new car through a non franchised outlet and why would you.
My money's on it being 'sold and registered' and then sent to the used yard to actually move.

That’s desperate, stillwell have just closed (sorry moved) their Medindie yard, if there’s no foot traffic in a ford dealer, they’ll send the cars to another in the group.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

They'll find ways around it, case in point this Focus ad.

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mile...ack/1239474019

Zooper cars is a branch of the Stillwell group I believe, somehow they've managed to come across 40 near new Focus in a bulk buy, whats the chances that these all came from their Ford franchise.
Note the Km's on this one, its still a new car being sold through a used car yard.
How do you sell a new car through a non franchised outlet and why would you.
My money's on it being 'sold and registered' and then sent to the used yard to actually move.

It’s still an inter dealer sale and stands, the vehicle sales match registrations.
The new system stops fictitious sales that don’t match registrations data base
It stops companies submitting sales estimates that are nowhere near correct.

In the case of Stilwell they’ve wholesaled 40 early 19.25 plate vehicles to make way for a new batch of 20 plates that are turning up soon, Focus is just too expensive for most buyers tastes.


I suspect all companies will follow America and go to three monthly reporting to smooth out sales numbers.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

That’s desperate, stillwell have just closed (sorry moved) their Medindie yard, if there’s no foot traffic in a ford dealer, they’ll send the cars to another in the group.

But its not just another in the group, its a used car outlet which would suggest the vehicle is being sold as used and not as new or demo.

They've slashed 6k off a car with 54km's on the clock and selling it through a used car lot.
Doesn't sound like just finding more foot traffic to me.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

But its not just another in the group, its a used car outlet which would suggest the vehicle is being sold as used and not as new or demo.

They've slashed 6k off a car with 54km's on the clock and selling it through a used car lot.
Doesn't sound like just finding more foot traffic to me.

All demos are classed as used vehicles, it happens once a car is registered,
It’s also why sales are based on new registrations.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

All demos are classed as used vehicles, it happens once a car is registered,
It’s also why sales are based on new registrations.

I know how it works, I worked in a few dealerships in my time, however, one thing I've never seen in all my years of working in yards and buying cars, is a new car with 54k's being sold through a used car yard.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I know how it works, I worked in a few dealerships in my time, however, one thing I've never seen in all my years of working in yards and buying cars, is a new car with 54k's being sold through a used car yard.

Check your ad, those vehicles are nearly 12 months old, I bet the price is the big issue with zero takers. My bet is Ford has given the dealer final assistance payment to move them and the only way that will happen is by wholesaling them.

There’s only 11 left at the time of the add so lower price works, as we knew it would

and of course it is Adelaide where times are probably pretty hard for battlers.

[prydey]

Zooper are part of AP Eager, probably the biggest dealer group in Australia. They own both new and used lots all around the country.

40 demos isn't that many. Possible hail damage cars, storm damage etc. Can't sell them as new once that sort of stuff has been reported.

I wouldn't call it a scheme to bump up sales figures.

[Syndrome]

It is the bushfires fault. The corona virus fault. Global warming's fault. Nancy Pelosi's fault.

[whynot]

My question is ... does it really matter these days?

Australia has next to zero local car manufacturing. So the swings in buyer consumption is worn by overseas manufacturers. Ask any car salesperson, and they will swear that at that price, they are not making any money on the car So, they are not loosing (or winning).

On the flip side, if consumers are not buying new cars, then they would have to be spending more on maintenance (and in turn generating local employment) keeping the cars on the road. The local Dealer should be making a few more bucks flogging spare parts at ridiculous prices.

If anything, it appears that the "automatic stabilizers" in the Australian dollar, the taxation system, and new car sales is just doing its thing.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Check your ad, those vehicles are nearly 12 months old, I bet the price is the big issue with zero takers. My bet is Ford has given the dealer final assistance payment to move them and the only way that will happen is by wholesaling them.

There’s only 11 left at the time of the add so lower price works, as we knew it would

and of course it is Adelaide where times are probably pretty hard for battlers.

I understand how it works, my point, or rather question is, if a group the size of them has 40 Focus sitting around which haven't sold and they then register them and wholesale them, does that registration and sale get included in the monthly Vfacts figures?

I can accept the demo's with a few thousand k's on them have been registered for a while, but that one with 54k's on it could quite easily have been registered last month and for all we know any number of those 40 could have been registered in January too.
If it does, then for something like Focus, which sold only 181 in January, this would skew those figures as technically the vehicles aren't actually sold to private buyers yet.

I wouldn't give too much credit to the 11/40 left marketing spin either.

Im not just pointing the finger at Ford here either, that mob has fingers in many pies, its just an ad I spotted last night and caught my attention for the low k's and the affiliation with a Brand.

As I said, im sure they (Dealers) will find a way around the new reporting criteria.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I understand how it works, my point, or rather question is, if a group the size of them has 40 Focus sitting around which haven't sold and they then register them and wholesale them, does that registration and sale get included in the monthly Vfacts figures?

I can accept the demo's with a few thousand k's on them have been registered for a while, but that one with 54k's on it could quite easily have been registered last month and for all we know any number of those 40 could have been registered in January too.
If it does, then for something like Focus, which sold only 181 in January, this would skew those figures as technically the vehicles aren't actually sold to private buyers yet.

I wouldn't give too much credit to the 11/40 left marketing spin either.

Im not just pointing the finger at Ford here either, that mob has fingers in many pies, its just an ad I spotted last night and caught my attention for the low k's and the affiliation with a Brand.

As I said, im sure they (Dealers) will find a way around the new reporting criteria.

You say you know how this works but twice now you ask if the registered demos count as sales, they do
so it'snot even a way around the system as zero km demos are a legitimate sale to a dealer.

The new reporting system is designed to stop motor companies declaring unsold/ unregistered
stock as being sold. Registered demos still count as sales whether they are wholesaled
or not as the moment they are registered, Ford has sold them to the dealer.

This could be something to do with region and population size of Adelaide,
if this was Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne, those demos would have been
swallowed up without outsourcing.....well you'd think so anyway.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Ford Numbers -

Ford EcoSport 15
Ford Endura 129
Ford Escape 235
Ford Everest 490
Ford Focus 181
Ford Mondeo 19
Ford Mustang 258
Ford Ranger 4X2 178
Ford Ranger 4X4 2,446
Ford Transit Custom 164
Ford Transit Heavy 54
Ford Total 4,169

Overall Ranger sales were up on the same month last year.

Keen to see Hilux figures.

Toyota just put through an adjustment to the figures sent to REVTRAC - the reasoning was there was a "shortfall in VFACTS reporting quantities for January." If the numbers weren't changed they would have been at about 15% market share.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Keen to see Hilux figures.

Toyota just put through an adjustment to the figures sent to REVTRAC - the reasoning was there was a "shortfall in VFACTS reporting quantities for January." If the numbers weren't changed they would have been at about 15% market share.

Hilux 4x4 sales 2,296

Bent,
this retraction by Toyota is the exact thing the new reporting is meant to stop,
Toyota sends in an estimate of sales that then fall short.....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

This could be something to do with region and population size of Adelaide,
if this was Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne, those demos would have been
swallowed up without outsourcing.....well you'd think so anyway.

those 40 focus' they mention won't be local. that's how they work. they will be sourced from all around the country. SA has smaller population so supply and demand is less therefore prices are higher. Makes sense to siphon them to SA to sell them as our market is smaller and they'll get more for them.

I bought my territory from them. happy with the car but not the experience.

If you look at Focus cars on carsales in SA you will see that a large % of them are from this dealer group. mostly demo km's around 3-5k. Rego's all very similar which means possibly all had their rego changed (ie, from interstate) at a similar time. that's just speculation by me though.

I don't think its a ploy to gain numbers in vfacts. these cars would have already been registered when sold to the new car dealers. Not sure if any new car dealers have unregistered stock sitting around anymore.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So now, they count actual sales instead of just registrations?
Good, It should even out sales in the long run as all demos are eventually sold.

Everest 490, a reasonable result considering current circumstances

re Everest, what are the current circumstances ? economic ?
I'm just thinking on this sector - mid size SUV's if you call them that.
I sure wouldn't think 490 Everests is anything to crow about, sure some will say its the profit, combined with Endura @ 129 the Ford SUV figure is 619.
For such a huge catergry where Prado/Santefe etcetcetc are in can anyone get the the other mid size SUV figures for interests sake ?

For the record Endura is a far rippa looking product on the road compared to Everest but thats my opinion.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

You say you know how this works but twice now you ask if the registered demos count as sales, they do
so it'snot even a way around the system as zero km demos are a legitimate sale to a dealer.

The new reporting system is designed to stop motor companies declaring unsold/ unregistered
stock as being sold. Registered demos still count as sales whether they are wholesaled
or not as the moment they are registered, Ford has sold them to the dealer.

So Ford could say register these 20 Focus we have in a holding yard and put them in one of your network of used car yards and they're considered sold and reportable to Vfacts as such.
Numbers declared should be actual sales to customers be it private, fleet or Govco, not between the manufacturer and the dealer who can then wholesale them to themselves as we see here to then sit in a yard for God knows how long, it makes a mockery of the system.

[BENT_8]

Very few Dealers own their stock, most of it is on loan from the manufacturer, I remember when the Toyota dealer on Beach Rd Christies Beach went under back in the mid 90's and we were sent down on a minutes notice to take possession of the entire new car stock on orders from head office.
Back in those days CMI was the only Toyota Dealer in SA that owned its new car stock outright.

Dealers have plenty of unregistered new car stock that hasn't even made it on to the forecourt yet, when I bought my Picanto I was led through a maze of filthy dirty Kia's/Suzuki's/MG's to see mine, none of them registered.
Part of my job when I worked in Dealerships was doing new car rego's, you rego them on the day of delivery unless they we're a demo.

My understanding of the new rules was that only sales to actual external customers we're to be counted, not internal transactions.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

So Ford could say register these 20 Focus we have in a holding yard and put them in one of your network of used car yards and they're considered sold and reportable to Vfacts as such.

Correct

Numbers declared should be actual sales to customers be it private, fleet or Govco, not between the manufacturer and the dealer who can then wholesale them to themselves as we see here to then sit in a yard for God knows how long, it makes a mockery of the system.

Why?
Demos are considered self limiting because if you're registering and selling most of your
stock, then all the profit is lost. That's usually enough incentive not to over do it.

[BENT_8]

Fair enough, I spend quite a bit of time on multiple car sale sites and in all my time I have never seen a new car dealer outsourcing new cars with sub 100k's on the clock to used car yards.
As I said, it stood out immediately as an anomaly.

That combined with the timing in regards to the new rules seems a little to convenient to me.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Fair enough, I spend quite a bit of time on multiple car sale sites and in all my time I have never seen a new car dealer outsourcing new cars with sub 100k's on the clock to used car yards.
As I said, it stood out immediately as an anomaly.

That combined with the timing in regards to the new rules seems a little to convenient to me.

I think you're seeing a connection when there is none,
we just had Toyota revising sales numbers, that is exactly what it's all about,
Toyota putting in sales estimates that it didn't reach....,..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Very few Dealers own their stock, most of it is on loan from the manufacturer, I remember when the Toyota dealer on Beach Rd Christies Beach went under back in the mid 90's and we were sent down on a minutes notice to take possession of the entire new car stock on orders from head office.
Back in those days CMI was the only Toyota Dealer in SA that owned its new car stock outright.

I wonder if that's unique deal with Toyota as most dealerships have to finance their own
floor stock until sold, hence the pressure to move vehicles on. If certain vehicles are hard
to move, the costs begin to pile up, so Ford and Holden will usually give a final payment
to allow a strong discount and if that doesn't work, then the dealer can wholesale them
to make way for fresh stock but that's normally a rare thing. In this case, Stilwell look to
have more stock than it can move, focus is bloody hard to shift because of price.

[Syndrome]

If MG, Haval, LDC and Great Wall sales are combined, 2.3% of cars (or 1 in 44) sold last month were made in China.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FTE217

re Everest, what are the current circumstances ? economic ?

The circumstance being that Ford's SUVs are just so difficult to sell,
be that price, style or buyers just preferring Prado and other three row SUVs.

For the record Endura is a far rippa looking product on the road compared to Everest but thats my opinion.

It's just way more expensive than Kluger or even Acadia which are both three row.

IMO, Ford's plate clearance prices are more in line with where regular prices should be,
the moment buyers see those vehicles that are $6K-$8K dearer than other vehicles,
they're off the list no matter how good they may be. This is where zero km demos come in....