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16-02-2020, 10:57 PM | #1 | ||||
Thailand Specials
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https://thedrakegroup.com.au/drake-t...iety-part-two/ Interesting dilemma, something I've noticed is that there is no real entry path into the industry as a newcomer, its not like you do a 'professional driving' apprenticeship where you can be mentored into a company from the start and work your way upwards. Another thing about the skills shortage is there upwards pressure on the wages? I see a lot of sub continental drivers behind the wheel on a daily basis driving all the smaller stuff around metro, I doubt they're on decent coin. I'm on the skills shortage list as an auto electrician and had my customers try coax me back to the tools as they're struggling to get guys to do the work but they're offering me less or the same as what I get now in an air conditioned office driving a desk, there's a shortage but the wages aren't going up to match and the apprenticeship dropout rate is over 50% Would you be a truck driver if there was an easier path in? Could be a good career for a young person sans relationship and university degree if the wages were there. Seems like LOTS of responsibility but without the wages to match, I'm not surprised no one aside from the league of extraordinary sub continentals sans personal hygiene are taking up the challenge. Those of you who are truck drivers (or former truck drivers - Rogosaurus, looking at you ya old bastard), whats your thoughts? The NY Times also did an interesting article a few years ago about truck drivers in the USA being disenfranchised: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/u...king-jobs.html Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 16-02-2020 at 11:05 PM. |
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17-02-2020, 12:03 AM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,619
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Why would you take the responsibility and stupid hours away from your family?
You’ve got your customers forever wanting to pay you less for greater productivity, then the coppers will drag you over the coals for log book/breaks. Added to the fact your name is on the side of the truck, and your every move is recorded and uploaded to dashcams Australia the second you make a mistake.
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17-02-2020, 12:34 AM | #3 | ||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
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With that in consideration, $50/hr would be a positive starting point. Any less it's not worth getting out of bed .
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17-02-2020, 06:35 AM | #4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,762
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Transport is stupidly cut-throat, it has always been a race to the bottom price wise. I have involved in the industry since mid 1976, not so much these days, but up until about 6 years ago.
Before I continue, it is important to understand that only about 15% of all freight goes interstate, most travels around intrastate (within the State), people tend to focus on interstate trucking but it really is a very small part of the industry. While they continue to put drivers way down the line over profits, sparkiling trucks, tyres, fuel, etc then they are going to continue to have issues getting good people As has already been said, why would you give up 10 -14hours per day for a poor hourly rate, or worse 'trip money' of kilometre rate' (I will talk about the issues around trip and kilometre rate in a moment), the chance of being punished by the enforcement people. How many workers of other industries are chased down the road for doing their job by the Police? Some drives need a smack but not all. There is also a lot of very shonky transport bosses out there as well Now, on to trip money and kilometre rate. All that does is encourage law breaking, it encourages drivers to keep the vehicle moving to make money. With trip money, you are rewarded for getting there and getting back as fast as you can. With kilometre rate you are rewarded for not stopping, the more the wheels are turning the more money can be made So much more to say, but that will do
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17-02-2020, 06:39 AM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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One of the best things that has happened for drivers has been the introduction and enforcement of the 'Chain of Responsibility' legislation. Mind you it has been in place in Victoria since 2004 with virtually no enforcement up to recently when the enforcement went national with the introduction of the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator (NHVR)
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17-02-2020, 12:25 PM | #6 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
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17-02-2020, 12:52 PM | #7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
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All State based enforcement people including Vicroads employees with the magenta lights work under the National body now, so no, they are not a toothless tiger
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17-02-2020, 02:55 PM | #8 | ||
AU3 ute EL futura
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 485
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I did an apprenticeship as a mechanic and left as soon as I had my licence. Lousy wages and working conditions. Now there are so few labor charges are going up rapidly and hopefully some of it is filtering through.
That's a market economy working. Hopefully it'll happen for truckies. They have been treated like rubbish for decades. Unfortunately what often happens these days is they drop standards rather than increase wages. You already have dangerous people driving some trucks and I think that will get worse. |
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17-02-2020, 02:56 PM | #9 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
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I like owning and playing with trucks but would never want to be a full time driver.
I admire the guy and gals that do though. Tough job. I'm happily in a career that has no real opposition, take a break when ever I want to and work the hours I want around the country.
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17-02-2020, 03:06 PM | #10 | ||
Former BTIKD
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Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
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Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
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18-02-2020, 09:49 AM | #11 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
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One part of me says the HC/MC drivers are underpaid.
Then I look at the tipper-and-dog drivers in Sydney who often do well (based on the gap between tipping costs and what they charge) but seem to get themselves in hock up to the neck - leading to problems that could have been avoided if not in such an indecent rush. It could just be, the modern culture of rushing darned near everything and not worrying about the “fiddly bits on the edge” which is bringing on much of the issue with truck driving. |
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18-02-2020, 12:06 PM | #13 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,737
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I know when it came in to force for passenger transport in SA a little over 12 months ago we had one of the head honch's come around and tell us how its a positive for us drivers and will clean up the industry, I put my hand up and said all this will do is put pressure on drivers to either sign off to say everything's ok and take the punt that they don't get scrutinised or have something unforeseen arise which draws attention or face the sack from ****ed off employers who cant or wont fix things which are non compliant. After the meeting I caught him having a private convo with the boss whereby he said, and I quote "this will help you sleep at night now, if they get caught out on the road with non compliance it falls on them and not you" I walked around the corner and said "Is that right mate" he just froze with a guilty as sin look on his face. We we're given pre check forms which we we're required to fill out to say the vehicle we we're to drive was compliant, one of our drivers noted a cracked windscreen on the first day it came in to play and got a nasty phone call from the boss saying it was bringing the company into disrepute which left the driver in tears. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, so why would you bother....but the management is now safe to sleep at night. I had an experience many moons ago whereby our forky put a pallet of boxed wine bottles on my tautliner by itself, he put it on one side of the tray, I said either centre it or put an empty stack next to it to prevent it going over. He went and whinged to the depot manager that I was telling him how to do his job, she came out all gung ho telling me to take it or **** off so I did, sure enough it went over but thankfully the shrink wrap kept it intact and let it fall slowly, so when I got to the destination the forky that end and I stood it up and all was good, when I got back to the depot the forky asked how I went, I said it fell over, he went straight in and told the manager it had fallen over, she came out and abused **** out of me because the freight was damaged, I said but I told you it would happen, she said COR, its on you not to leave if you're not happy with it. COR is nothing more than buck passing in order to protect those on the step above. Last edited by BENT_8; 18-02-2020 at 12:14 PM. |
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18-02-2020, 01:47 PM | #14 | ||
Thailand Specials
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Location: Centrefold Lounge
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The good die young I guess,
We've got you for the next 250 years I'd consider giving it a go given I've got no family holding me back from being away from home 24/7 and no qualms about sleeping in the truck on the side of the road. But by the time you pay thousands for the licensing, the responsibilities you have, the crappy wages and being treated like a pleb, I'm better off getting treated like a pleb and getting paid more to drive my desk in Melbourne instead. The trick is finding the desk that pays even more Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 18-02-2020 at 01:55 PM. |
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18-02-2020, 02:58 PM | #15 | |||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
Posts: 12,548
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18-02-2020, 07:41 PM | #16 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,737
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I've seen around a dozen drivers if not more come and go in the 20 months I've been with them. Don't get me wrong they're nice people and im happy to work for them, but that doesn't change the fact that they're hiding behind COR legislation to avoid prosecution whilst leaving the threat of redundancy over the heads of anyone who dares to upset the apple cart and that my friend is a snap shot of what is going on within the industry and who you see more and more 'new Australian's' behind the wheel of those heavy vehicles beside and behind you in traffic. Im actually one of the lucky ones to be honest Although I regularly drive the oldest and highest km vehicle in the fleet, im probably the only one who doesn't need to flag issues on my checks ro ever go In need of mechanical repairs and I put that down to the mechanical sympathy that I treat my vehicle with and that comes about because im a 'car guy' and treat it how i'd treat my own, whereas, to many drivers who go from one to another on a regular basis, its just another day for another dollar. I do it because I love being behind the wheel, the money is a bonus. |
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18-02-2020, 10:21 PM | #17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,339
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When I think about it I think it would be great to drive around the country seeing all the sights, listening to music, podcasts, audiobooks.
In reality you probably drive in boring places more often than scenic places, the hours are probably horrible and the pay isn't great especially if you're not getting paid to sit in a line to load/unload. I'll just stay on the railway. Easier work and probably paid more than most truckers. It's pretty boring though. Probably because they drive at 110% all day every day. |
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18-02-2020, 11:58 PM | #18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,363
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Granted you won’t walk straight into an MC interstate job. There is no barrier for someone to sit their heavy licences through a driving school and apply for one of the thousands of MR/HR jobs on offer. Progression doesn’t take long. It doesn’t take long to learn the ropes and the job is as hard as you make it. When I was building a house I went living in a truck for 12 months to avoid finding somewhere to live with strangers, pay through the nose for my own rental, or live with family. When I was saving for my first property around ten years ago I was living in a truck and had no real expenses. A lot if not most truck drivers I deal with are negative, and extremely precious. Think of petulant teenage girls. I’ve since gone back into a truck workshop and deal with them every day. As for the skills shortage, this effects all essential services/trades/professions doesn’t it. Health and education sectors, automotive and engineering, building and construction, commercial pilots, paramedics etc. This despite population growth of around 50k pa. This is exacerbated in the trades due to unreliable tradesmen and poor or incompetent workmanship. On the other hand there seems to be plenty of baristas, artists, cafe and bar staff, illiterate bias journalists presenting their opinion as opposed to facts, tax sucking troughers contracted or employed by local and central governments to study and promote climate change, anything ‘ist’ or phobic, finding ways to increase red tape for job security and further job creation for the unproductive. Why do the sectors facing skills shortages need to fill jobs that are physical and involve long hours, or require years of training and constant upskill... Are a lot of people coming into the workforce over the past twenty or so years afraid of hard work and prefer to take the easy option? That survey reads that the industry needs to cut down their hours to improve work/life balance. No doubt they expect drivers to be paid extra to compensate. They’ll be the first to complain of extra costs to the end user when more trucks and drivers are needed to alleviate the original drivers so the same amount of freight can be moved. |
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19-02-2020, 06:22 AM | #19 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,629
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Something that amazes me is how low freight costs are - it's obviously unsustainable.
It only cost me like $35 to have something over 20kg picked up from 75km away and delivered via a truck. Or with Startrack Express it's $15+ GST to send something up to 5KG nationally by air freight. It gets picked up, put on a plane, then picked up at the opposite end and delivered for $16.50 including the Government's cut. |
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19-02-2020, 06:29 AM | #20 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
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With the skills shortage I finished year 12 in 2009, there were only 10 of us out of the 140 who went the whole 9 yards at high school went onto trades, everyone else did university.
One of my colleagues has a masters and is only getting about $10K/year more than me, I'm doing alright for a bloke with the education of a cheese sandwich, I've only got a few TAFE certs and a year 12 pass. Unfortunately parents and careers advisers at school keep pushing kids into further education rather than considering trades. |
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19-02-2020, 06:37 AM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,762
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Over-loading is also a CoR problem now too, if the consignor loads trucks too heavy or incorrectly then it becomes their problem Consignors now have a roll in ensuring drivers are not fatigued, if the forkie believes the driver is fatigued they are required to report it to the management who will then deal with it Dimensions also fit in with CoR legislation, wide, long loads etc And so does load restraint, it is up to the boss to ensure that the driver has all the right gear for restraining the load, the consignor has a roll to ensure the driver actually restrains the load according to the 'Load Restraint Guide', this book is now enshrined in legislation So, there may be bosses who think this legislation will protect them, when in fact is actually exposes them. The Authorities are not stupid, they know where most of the problems are. I used to teach CoR to local businesses, I full understand it
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19-02-2020, 07:54 AM | #22 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,737
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Yes Trev, I understand the theory behind it but the theory and the practical are 2 vastly different things.
If as a driver you complain about compliance or fail to take the required shortcuts you will be swiftly moved on for someone who will, which relates to my earlier comment about 'new Australians' as they don't care. As I said, I stood there and listened to someone with a LOT of clout in the passenger transport industry tell senior management they could sleep easy at night knowing their **** was covered followed by a driver being dragged over the coals for answering honestly a question they included in their pre trip checks. I doubt I'm a pioneer Trev. |
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19-02-2020, 08:06 AM | #23 | ||
DIY Tragic
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Indeed, and Australia is right up there when it comes to persecution of whistleblowers. The only rewards are for selective myopia.
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19-02-2020, 08:08 AM | #24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,762
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CoR is not new, it has been around since 2004, it is now that the NHVR are around that they are policing it
Your boss and his mate might think they are OK, but I can guarantee they aren't. It will catch up with them at some point, it is a real focus of enforcement. They know there are systemic issue in the industry that a driver has no control over - hence the CoR legislation. It is not just one piece of legislation, it is a number but grouped under CoR I can tell you there are plenty of people out there who give really bad advice, from enforcement through to business reps - they don't always get it right, if it is not their core business they will get it wrong I can't see how it would cover a bosses ****, I have read the legislation many times and it surely focus up the line not down Yes, some drivers will not do the right thing and they will cop it, but there are heaps of bosses who don't either and they are exposed
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19-02-2020, 08:14 AM | #25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Have a read - see the 'responsible person' bit
https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Usin...nsibility.aspx
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19-02-2020, 08:16 AM | #26 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,737
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It only catches up with them if and when something goes wrong and it can be proven that a driver was put under pressure to accept responsibility Trev, until then it's a ticking time bomb.
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19-02-2020, 08:17 AM | #27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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it is not that hard to find when bosses do that
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19-02-2020, 08:20 AM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,762
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A couple of years ago I delivered some training to one of the larger transport businesses around here for them to get BFM. When the drivers arrived many of them were up in arms about the bosses 'making' them do 14 hour day. My first question was 'how many of you run a legal driver diary', not many was the response, they generally run out of hours. I then told them that the boss was trying to make them legal, actually covering their *** for them. Instead of lying to fit their day in in 12 hours they can now do 14 without lying in the driver diary - there are good bosses out there
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Last edited by Trevor 57; 19-02-2020 at 08:31 AM. |
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19-02-2020, 08:36 AM | #29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,762
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here we go
https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/hotl...-new-/3939090/ https://www.bigrigs.com.au/news/nhvr...gy-re/3946764/
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19-02-2020, 08:39 AM | #30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,762
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another list of prosecutions, this time from NHVR themselves - plenty of drivers and plenty of others as well
https://www.nhvr.gov.au/law-policies/court-outcomes
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