Ineos Grenadier Review - Land Cruiser 70 series competitor

[Franco Cozzo]

Good to see a new competitor on the block to the Land Cruiser 70 series:

The 3.0-litre twin-turbo diesel six makes 183kW of power (3250-4200rpm) and 550Nm of torque (1250-3000rpm) and is capable of moving the Grenadier from 0-100km/h in 9.9 seconds.

The 3.0-litre single-turbo petrol six makes 210kW of power (4750rpm) and 450Nm of torque (1750-4000rpm) and is capable of moving the Grenadier from 0-100km/h in 8.6 seconds.

Both engines come mated to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission (codenamed 8HP51 for the petrol, 8HP76 for the diesel), with what Ineos calls a new “heavy duty” torque converter.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-rev...enadier-review

It gets a very positive reivew, this thing looks to be a good competitor to the Land Cruiser 70 series wagon, about similar pricing.

Although I'm concerned over the choice of those engines, they spend so much time and effort ruggedising that vehicle, right down to the choice of recirculating ball steering rack, to then put BMW engines in it - not exactly known for their robustness

They should have used a truck manufacturers light/medium duty diesel engine and then either the GM L8T or the Ford 7.3L V8 options I reckon for the unleaded job.

[Citroënbender]

Has there been much chatter on its repairability? Field serviceability through to panel work. Does it have redundancies or safety modes for longer range recovery?

I’m impressed it has got this far, I would be tempted if shopping in that bracket.

Although I’d rather the fellow behind it all had sunk the same coin into exact reproduction Phase IIIs.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Has there been much chatter on its repairability? Field serviceability through to panel work. Does it have redundancies or safety modes for longer range recovery?

I’m impressed it has got this far, I would be tempted if shopping in that bracket.

Although I’d rather the fellow behind it all had sunk the same coin into exact reproduction Phase IIIs.

For owners who want to carry out work on their Grenadier themselves, Ineos is taking a novel approach by providing online 3D interactive manuals with support from the technical team at HQ a call or a click away.

“The vehicle has been deliberately designed and engineered to be easy to work on inside and out,” the company claims. It bills its “open source” approach, without trying to “ring-fence” buyers into its own ecosystem, as a point-of-difference for enthusiasts.

This is very promising, they've also got in bed with the Bosch service centres nationally as their national agents for maintenance.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Although I'm concerned over the choice of those engines, they spend so much time and effort ruggedising that vehicle, right down to the choice of recirculating ball steering rack, to then put BMW engines in it - not exactly known for their robustness

They will be using the
B57 (diesel) and B58 (petrol).


The B57 is pretty much Bullet Proof & the B58 is the new 2JZ

They are about as Robust as you can get?

I think I posted an article about The Grenadier a while back, as I was impressed with the engine choice

Put a B57 in a Thai special & it would be the best on the market.

[Citroënbender]

I read deeper than the linked article last night, out of curiosity. It’s interesting to note that a vehicle initially pitched as the nadir of “Britishness” by a Brexit cheerleader (its founder) has resorted out of necessity to making use of many European assets.

My impression is that it’s going to be largely resident in the domain of up-spec’d soft roaders. Seems that diff locks, for example, are an option. I’d envisaged something that even in its most basic (cheapest) form could drag itself up to several hundred kilometres on two broken axles, with a torn brake hose and punctured radiator.

Another article (that didn’t get a test drive) reckoned the rear seats were significantly less spacious for grownups, than the linked one did. I’m surprised there is no basic cab-chassis version, it would come closer to meeting the 79 Series head-on.

The lack of a petrol V-engined “sporty” model to compete for aspirational AMG types, is probably a matter of budget right now but if Ineos muck around too long the aftermarket may resolve this, complete with R&P steering…

[Paull]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Good to see a new competitor on the block to the Land Cruiser 70 series:

I had thought that 70 series wasn't even available right now???

Toyota Australia has paused order-taking for the LandCruiser 70 Series as a customer-focussed measure, due to supply and demand factors that have resulted in extended wait times for customers

70 Series

[Hulsty]

They are still being delivered and some dealers have them in the yard.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Good to see a new competitor on the block to the Land Cruiser 70 series:



https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-rev...enadier-review

It gets a very positive reivew, this thing looks to be a good competitor to the Land Cruiser 70 series wagon, about similar pricing.

Although I'm concerned over the choice of those engines, they spend so much time and effort ruggedising that vehicle, right down to the choice of recirculating ball steering rack, to then put BMW engines in it - not exactly known for their robustness

They should have used a truck manufacturers light/medium duty diesel engine and then either the GM L8T or the Ford 7.3L V8 options I reckon for the unleaded job.

Exactly. Why have an engine that is quite complex and hard to work on. And going by stuff i see on other forums, they exceedingly go wrong and are fitted with a bunch of plastic parts that don't stand up well over time. It's an odd choice for sure.

[Vesper Martini]

Interesting to note the B57(diesel) & B58(petrol) (and the S58) share the same block.
smart move to simplify things

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

They will be using the
B57 (diesel) and B58 (petrol).


The B57 is pretty much Bullet Proof & the B58 is the new 2JZ

They are about as Robust as you can get?

I think I posted an article about The Grenadier a while back, as I was impressed with the engine choice

Put a B57 in a Thai special & it would be the best on the market.

I wouldn't call anything out of BMW 'bullet proof' or 'robust', its finnicky bull**** that demands you are spot on with maintenance that the moment there's a sign of neglect or rough use they **** the bed

I think its a horrible application for the type of vehicle it is,

GM L8T or Ford 7.3L would have been ideal - these things are engines that will run on **** high sulfur fuel like 91 all day every day under high load, plus you know you'd have circa 80KW more under the bonnet.

I reckon Cummins B6.7 Euro VI for the diesel variant.

Also the LC70 crowd loves 8 cylinders, given we'd be a key market for this vehicle I'm not sure why they didn't give it more consideration.

Maybe they got a good deal out of BMW.

[kevino]

Where is that Cummins built now?
Is it China?

[Citroënbender]

Wondering how something like this might go, with the 4x4 8L90 though.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...955K5/10002/-1

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Wondering how something like this might go, with the 4x4 8L90 though.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...955K5/10002/-1

I'm suspect on passenger car engines for commercial vehicle type platforms where you're going to beat on it big time.

https://poweredsolutions.gm.com/products/?filter=engine

Check out their 'powered solutions' range of engines, there's plenty of interesting choices from GM.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by kevino

Where is that Cummins built now?
Is it China?

Nope, still in The U.S.A. they were originally a Joint venture with CASE Farm equipment..
The ISF series are built in China with a Joint venture with FOTON

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummin...ressure%20pump.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I wouldn't call anything out of BMW 'bullet proof' or 'robust', its finnicky bull**** that demands you are spot on with maintenance that the moment there's a sign of neglect or rough use they **** the bed

I think its a horrible application for the type of vehicle it is,

GM L8T or Ford 7.3L would have been ideal - these things are engines that will run on **** high sulfur fuel like 91 all day every day under high load, plus you know you'd have circa 80KW more under the bonnet.

I reckon Cummins B6.7 Euro VI for the diesel variant.

Also the LC70 crowd loves 8 cylinders, given we'd be a key market for this vehicle I'm not sure why they didn't give it more consideration.

Maybe they got a good deal out of BMW.

Mate Those are truck engines, the Cummins weighs over 500kg dry.
that changes they whole dynamics


You know our Police cars have the same engines, I cant even find any examples of engine failures on these things.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Mate Those are truck engines, the Cummins weighs over 500kg dry.
that changes they whole dynamics


You know our Police cars have the same engines, I cant even find any examples of engine failures on these things.

Yes - I am aware how much they weigh

You'll find it in the RAM 2500 as well so its not exactly like its uncommon to see them in road going vehicles.

Given Victoria Police changes over its cars at the 40,000km mark you'll be unlikely to find any with problems, give it some time though, once they're 5 years old and 150,000km on the clock you'll see why BMW was a poor choice for the Ineos Grenadier.

If you're worried about the Cummins engine and its weight, go look at the steering rack the Ineos Grenadier has.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Nope, still in The U.S.A. they were originally a Joint venture with CASE Farm equipment..
The ISF series are built in China with a Joint venture with FOTON

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummin...ressure%20pump.

I think Dong Feng make Cummins engines too
http://www.enginecummins.com/dongfen...ne-co-ltd.html
But probably for their own purposes i came across this when looking at their military vehicles.

Either way the Ineos Grenadier is going to be built in France. doubt they would get engines from china or the US

[Citroënbender]

Grenadier has recirculating ball steering like an early Falcon, doesn’t it?

[Wretched]

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Wretched

No one has seemed to show engine bay shots yet, curious to see what its like under the bonnet.

[Citroënbender]

https://outbacktravelaustralia.com.a...rge/grenadier/

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm a big fan of the fuse box and the batteries being under the rear seat, it all looks rather easy to get to although its limiting you to AGM batteries rather than traditional lead acid jobs because the batteries being inside the cabin. Also the switches on the roof are great, kind of like the new Ranger and its overhead switch panel allowing you to very easily add extra accessories to the car right off the factory floor.

[Burnout]

Mmmm, cant see a lot of success here YET, for this vehicle. As to it being a 79 Series challenger, just go have a look at every & i mean every rubbish dump in regional Aussie. Just loaded up with 79 Series parts.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I read deeper than the linked article last night, out of curiosity. It’s interesting to note that a vehicle initially pitched as the nadir of “Britishness” by a Brexit cheerleader (its founder) has resorted out of necessity to making use of many European assets.

Its so British that its built in France and has German driveline

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its so British that its built in France and has German driveline

To be fair even the Brits wouldn't want it built by a Brummie with a landy box

[Citroënbender]

I’m sure they will reclaim its nationality somehow. Maybe a free oil leak and some iffy wiring to the lights.

Or it comes with chip butty and an “Ey up me duck” T-shirt.