Bad experience at Mitsubishi dealer

[SUVshopper]

I dropped in today with my 1991 Magna to check out the 380 variants (the GT was a real beaut). I wasn't there for the sausage sizzle or the jumping castle.
I asked the sales rep whether it was possible for him to value my car, noticing it was a busy day for them. He acknowledged that they were busy but would still be able to value my car. Then he introduced me to a person who could value cars.
So I walked with that person to my car and told him the model of my car. However, when we were about 15m from my car, he stopped and didn't want to proceed further. He said that it had been a couple of years ago that he had last valued that model and he has to ring around to get a price. When I asked him to give me an indicative estimate (that's all I want) he refused to do so. And as he turned his back on me, he said sarcastically - $10,000 !
I was really upset when I walked back to my car. Anyway, I found out later that the person who did not value my car is one of the owners of that dealership and he has in the past also refused to value cars for other customers.
I've owned the Magna for 8 years and I thought of trading it in for the 380. Although it has only done 135K as it's a "second" car, I knew that I would be lucky to get a few grand for it. However, in the manner that I was treated today, I might just forget about any Mitsubishi !

[b2tf]

dont blame you after that. thats not only rude, its pathetic.

[rag top]

If you are keen on the magna, try another mitsubishi dealer, and if you end up purchasing from them, take your new purchase to the first dealer to show him the sale he missed out on...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by '67

If you are keen on the magna, try another mitsubishi dealer, and if you end up purchasing from them, take your new purchase to the first dealer to show him the sale he missed out on...

I agree, and give the dealer a bad name to everybody. I dont understand when people woint say who the dealer was. Bad service is bad service, tell as many people as you can because a bad reputation is hard to brake.

[Big Mike]

I used to be a New Car Salesperson for a Mitsubishi dealer. Fortunately your experience is commonplace throughout the industry and not unique to Mitsubishi training or any such thing; however, unfortunately they have missed out on a potential sale because of their pig-headedness.

I don't wish to condone their actions, but for the sake of typing, here's From "their" perspective: Customer walks in. We're all flat out, people everywhere, almost all of them just wanting to look and see if they can con the salesman into taking them for a demo. You have obviously done the right thing talking about getting an appraisal - and - from there the process is NOT to tell you what your car is worth, rather to calculate a change-over figure after settling you on a particular car with the features, etc. you want.

So that's a few hours worth. Customer walks towards his beautifully pollished up 91 TR Magna - talks about what model and specs it is as if there's any real difference if it was a Verada or an exec. Now here's what often happens: "Yadayadayada cost me $30,000 new, serviced here, there, etc., got these features, etc., drives beautifully, etc." (salesman knows exactly how it'll drive and has a good idea what the appraiser will say when he sees it) "Oh its looked after us wonderfully all these years - its only got 400,000 kays on it...."

Ok so yours is an actual low-mileage car. And for the next person wanting a good first car, it will actually be a very good buy and a valuable investment. However, the wholesale yard will sell it for $4,999, after allowing $800 or so for warranty and touch ups, 10% GST, so that's $3,800, plus the yard fees (overheads) and $600 or $700 of profit, you're back to $1,500. And this goes for any Ford, Holden, etc., anything marketable (i.e. not an odd-ball car).

The 400,000 km one is worth 200~500 bucks. Yours is "only" a grand more, even though its clearly in a million times better condition. Sadly, especially when that busy, the memories go around in your head of the last customer that nearly belted you when you told him his pride and joy was worth $1,500, and as the customer talks of such pride it is easy to make such assumptions, like you are yet another of the dozens of customers week in, week out who have unrealistic expectations of their vehicles value.

A customer, in my experience, would like to know the true buying value of their trade-in; the sale or 'docket' price of the new car, what on roads are involved and do the maths themselves. THEN negotiate.

However, in practice a salesperson is to withhold information and gently guide a customer into buying a vehicle and doing the maths for them. It is "nicer" than being told on the footpath your car's worth $1500 and the new GT is $47,990. Oh but then you've got on roads...

This is what I would do: I would write the contract up showing $47,990, how much rego? 12 Months? Sure $649, stamp duty $1,700, (or whatever it works out to), dealer deliver $1,205, equals $53,500 for that lovely car. Now your trade in has been valued at $1,500, (customer may say, "yeah well that's a little low" or "you're f***ing joking"); either way, response is ok, well you can see where we stand now, where would you like to be?

Followed by constant back-and-forth "I'm not sure if its possible, but if I can get my boss to be little bit flexible on the $52,000 that he wants, how flexible can you be on the $45,000 that you were wanting to pay?"

"I can't get to $45,000. But I will endeaver to find some flexibility in that $52,000; however I need you to be flexible on the $45,000 figure. How flexible can you be? I'm willing to submit any reasonable offer in writing to the manager, but I will need your commitment (signature) as you need his."

One cup of coffee, lots of bits of paper, lots of aimlessly walking betwen my desk and the boss' office, trying desperately to contain my laughter at the whole procedure; and eventually you SUVshopper will have walked away with a new DB 380GT for a changeover of about $49,000 if I was having a good day, or $47,500 if it was a slow week, or if I had three other deals going on at the same time and just didn't have the time to extract any more dollars. A few weeks later, you get your new car and I get my $70 commission.

There were a number of reasons I left the car-sales business; $70 commission is one, and 65 hours per week for $28,000 base sallary is another. However the way in which the changing heirachy would second-guess my judgements, or dismiss who I felt was a buyer, or make me speak to someone who was just wasting time; and, sadly, the immoral way in which these people would sometimes treat potential customers - like yourself - with complete lack of people skills or comprehension of the real world, had a big deal to do with why I no longer work there.

My advice to you would be this: The new 380GT is an awesome vehicle; don't disregard Mitsubishi on behalf of one ***** - because pricks like him work at just about every car yard in the country. Find another dealership, ring first and make an appointment to ensure they will have time for you, they will have the model you're after, some colours cleaned to show you, and most of all they will know that you are serious!! And won't have the oppurtunity to second-guess you before even asking what you were hoping to get for your trade-in.

[Edit]: When I started all that SUVshopper was the only post in this fresh thread. Now to agree with the other posts - yes bad service is bad service, and needs to be reflected. By all means, make known the dealer and more importantly let the Service Department know that they won't be getting your business because of the treatment you recieved by their front line. (the Service area is actually where the money is made in a dealership - not the showroom)
And as for the product itself, I have been involved in the 380 project in one way or another while at the dealership for two years and in the 8 months since. You must make your own decision about what is important to you in motor vehicle, but the 380GT is a brilliantly well built car and offers styling and features that should appeal to a lot of people - especially next month when the entertainment units start shipping (in dash dvd/tv/gps/sat-nav/so much more).

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by SUVshopper

I dropped in today with my 1991 Magna to check out the 380 variants (the GT was a real beaut). I wasn't there for the sausage sizzle or the jumping castle.
I asked the sales rep whether it was possible for him to value my car, noticing it was a busy day for them. He acknowledged that they were busy but would still be able to value my car. Then he introduced me to a person who could value cars.
So I walked with that person to my car and told him the model of my car. However, when we were about 15m from my car, he stopped and didn't want to proceed further. He said that it had been a couple of years ago that he had last valued that model and he has to ring around to get a price. When I asked him to give me an indicative estimate (that's all I want) he refused to do so. And as he turned his back on me, he said sarcastically - $10,000 !
I was really upset when I walked back to my car. Anyway, I found out later that the person who did not value my car is one of the owners of that dealership and he has in the past also refused to value cars for other customers.
I've owned the Magna for 8 years and I thought of trading it in for the 380. Although it has only done 135K as it's a "second" car, I knew that I would be lucky to get a few grand for it. However, in the manner that I was treated today, I might just forget about any Mitsubishi !

Don't let one bad dealer deter you. I have driven the 380 and say it is worth the perseverance.

FF

[buickman]

It wasn't the Mitsibishi dealer in Knox Vic was it? They had all that happening.

The 380 looks good in the VRX & GT but they feel smaller inside than the superseated TL. The Knox Mits dealer has a S2/3 AU XR8 with sunroof for 16 grand & queit a few VRX AWD of the TL's left over.

I like the turbo EVO Lancers they have especially the black one

buickman

[Duffman]

I actually went to Mitsubishi today and they had a sausage sizzle going and all I didn't know what it was for though. The guy did tell us they have sold a stack of 380's already but i reckon they look terrible. Went down to test drive a new evo 9 and it they were real helpful. The guy gave the history and preety much every single feature on the car and we went out for about a 40 min drive. I got to drive it heaps which wasn't too bad considering im only 20. Only thing I found with the car is its really stiff and the gear changes are really often and it had a really bad turning circle. It all made up for it in power though.

I guess it comes down to what sales person you get. Went to test drive a new sti and they were preety rude and turned out they didnt even have a normal wrx to drive in the end.

[Yaw]

If you want a value on your car use redbook.com.au
Then remember the prices there are for cars that dealer can charge for that model car with the average klms and have to make sure of all road worthyness, astecics and provide a warranty on it. Now if you think to yourself if you had to provide all that how much would it cost you?
Then take that cost off what the redbook states and you have your answer.

[4Vman]

Best advice: Buy a FORD...

[R0bb0]

Dad was looking at a 2004 BA Wagon with 7500km's at Ford on Thursday, and asked how much trade he would get on his 1999 dual cab turbo deisel Rodeo, and was told that it is too old to trade????

[The Monty]

I got 1000 bucks for my 1987, 1.8l oddball single came camry. 320000 on the clock, 2 windows dont wind down weird engine noise, clutch, gearbox and brakes stuffed. I reckon I done OK. Back to the thread, when I was looking for my car, I had some really rude people try and sell me cars. Like "how much do you want to spend"
"$10000"
"This ones only $14000"
I just ignore that, turn my back on them, and walk away. I dont have a look at any other cars, ask for their card, say later to them, or anything. So in retrospect, if you get a bad dealer, and we all know they are out there, walk away, and go to the next yard, then go back and rub it in the faces of the others, and laugh at them.

[Mondie]

Bloody excellent post Big Mike.

l agree with what has already been said, go to another dealer. Its not the manufacturers fault so dont discount the car based on this experience.

[FordACE]

If you really want that car, I say go to another dealer and try there. I can't believe the assessor had to be like that. Some people have no heart.

[xa bird]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Best advice: Buy a FORD...

The wife and I were shopping for a duel cab 2 years ago(40kplus) and went to the local ford dealer in (canberra "city") they didn't want to even quote us on a ute then never called when they said. So we went to mazda and got a top of the line sdx turbo diesel.

[max^power]

People like this have a lot to learn. Bad things like this can happen in a second, but they can haunt you for years! Hope the guy has a slow couple of years.

They usually make money on the trade in (if its reasonable) + they make something on the car they sold? From what i understand...

i couldn't trust any of the car sales people i've ever had contact with, they're as bad as the real estate agents that have been harassing me latley!!

im sure there are some good guys out there, suppose they just cost more!

[jonk]

Gotta say well done Big Mike, well said.

Been in the sales biz too.

But ! You'd have to be more honest than that though ? $70/vehicle ?

You mean if you don't sell 'the extras' aswell !?

If I couldn't clear $100 - 200 on every car ... damn near 30 cars a month; I'd be in the s**thouse ! Read sacked.

Use to make $400 nearly on WYNNS' packs alone.

BTW, never go to a dealer when they have the fancy stuff on. Always go when it's quiet AND, at the end of the month ... always, the end of the month.

And did I leave a big enough hint ... don't buy/purchase the rust/paint/fabric protection.

[twr7cx]

go to your ford dealer and traded it in for a BF rather! ;)

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by jonk

You mean if you don't sell 'the extras' aswell !?

Man I sold what I wanted to sell. And I worked on getting the trust of the customer. Which in turn means, I could NOT charge $1,500 for $300 worth of wax and tint.
Lets say you've got a really skinny deal and the guys a ***** to boot. Finally he signs the damn thing and we've probably made around a grand in total gross - which means in NET terms its really a hefty loss. If I mentioned accessories before he'd have wanted them thrown in - but after he's stitched up I can say, "you mentioned something about a spoiler? They're normally $645 plus painting, but look I'll see what I can do for you. They've got a special on at the moment I can get you the spoiler for $400 even" if he still es do it for $350. They cost, supply/paint/fit $150 inclusive, and would normally sell for $495. So we've got a tad more in the deal and he's adament he's got every last cent; so he'll tell his mates about "that young Michael bloke down at xxx Mitsubishi, he'll look after ya"

And yes, my minimum commission was $70. Industry standard spotter's fee is $100. Try explaining that to Mr. and Mrs. Customer when it comes time for refferals. I did work out my average commish - it was over $100 but nowhere near the amount you mention. I was paid $70 regardless, then 10% of the profit in the vehicle, over and above all yard fees and holdback. I understand this method to be industry standard although I know of some big-name (high-pressure) dealers paying $150 minimum, plus extra worked out the same. Some vehicles have factory bonuses month-to-month, and sometimes we were paid incentive bonuses.

A dealer would try to make a hundred here and there off your trade in if we could; however relationships with wholesalers were often fragile so try not to stick it to each other too much. I explained above a wholesalers' margins. You would be surprised how little money is in new cars from time to time - sure I sold the odd full price-full bonus Pajero for $65g+ and made $800 odd commission; I'd imagine FPV and HSV cars to have simillar margins and bonuses much of the time - however there are some very good deals out there too, in new cars. Used cars is a different kettle of fish - but rather than rambling what say I open this up and will answer any questions I can.

Robbo - a car is never too old to trade. They just couldn't be bothered, didn't want to give you a price, or couldn't find a legitement buyer for it one way or another. OR, rather than breaking your Dad's heart and telling him what his car is worth they used that ploy rather than the "you should really try selling it privately" because some managers HATE that line (think it'll put the customer off)

The Monty - I think we all know an 18-yr-old 320,000 km Camry is worth about a grand to BUY; which means the dealer probably offloaded it to a wholesaler, or a wrecker for about $200, or tissied it up themselves, put 2g on it and see what offer they can get. Thus the additional money was margin in the car you purchased. [Edit:-I'm responding - not singling you out or criticising at all]
Sometimes you can sell a car for $25,000 so long as you get a $10,000 trade in; other times they won't care their ter is only worth $5,000 so long as they can get the new one for $20,000. You have to juggle the figures to match the customer - and this is were a power-hungry or stubborn manager can get in the way when (in my case) the salesman generally knew what the customer needed to hear.

A forum is not a novel, so I'll stop rambling - please if I can give any advice or answer any questions I'd like to be of service.

[XHII V8S]

Errm ok I have a question for you mike. I bought my ute from a dealer whom I want to set fire to, but I sometimes get the impression I got a good deal. The ute was priced $16000 in the yard, so I went in and told him I wanted a trade in on my old car. He asked me what I thought it was worth and said hmm about $1000 (1985 XF Ute) He then says would you buy without trade and said well I don't give a sh*t I came for a new car. We then talk price, he says Ill have to talk to the manager. Now being only 18 and never having negotiated a deal in my life, I felt intimidated but he says so you want to talk price. I said yes Im not paying $16000 for a car the bank says is worth $12500. The manager looked at me witha dumb face and he says ok what will to pay, I said 13500 he said no I said 14000 he said done deal. He was a ***** because they try and get you to use their finance and I hate that. Well a month later I had a look on Glasses valuation and with options kms etc its worth $16800 (Hard cover, XR8 mags, ute liner tickford suspension & all the S Pak extras - 5.0L cruise air auto power steering mirrors and comfy fabric interior. I had to pay rego $320 but do you think I got a good deal?

Chris

[XR Martin]

Fact is your 1991 Magna is worth nothing to a dealer, why would you even bother wasting the man's time? He could of been honest with you and said $500, and you would have been just as outraged.
Fact is they could never sell it, and would have to offload it to another dealer or get an auction house to flog it off, either way it wouldnt be worth thier time.

Imagine rocking up to a Ford dealer and wanting to trade an EA on a BF XR?:

[Dodge]

dont worry, u get the same service when trying to buy a 137k mercedes. buy a ford and stop and wee on the crappy all aussie built 380 crap bucket

[jmc-007]

what is wrong with the industry like cmon, I know there are the good fellas like RAT!!!

But cmon the ammount of wits and retards working for car dealers you have to wonder how they stay in business.

I wont mention the name of a certain dealer in para that still has 500 dollars of mine :jab: (left a bad taste in my mouth that place)

The Manufacturers need better representation at the ground level.

If I behaved at work like a car salesman i would be given marching orders in the instant !!!

The best thing you can do if you dont like anything. WALK AWAY

[jmc-007]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Fact is your 1991 Magna is worth nothing to a dealer, why would you even bother wasting the man's time? He could of been honest with you and said $500, and you would have been just as outraged.
Fact is they could never sell it, and would have to offload it to another dealer or get an auction house to flog it off, either way it wouldnt be worth thier time.

Imagine rocking up to a Ford dealer and wanting to trade an EA on a BF XR?:

If they want the business bad enough I guess they would. Im sure if you wanted a BF you would probably want the max for your car too

[big_waity]

Buy a Falcon!

[ck11]

Why would you want to trade your car in to a dealer in the first place? You always acheive a better price selling it privately and if for some reason you do score a unrealisitic price on trade in, then im pretty sure you are compromising on the purchase price of the new car.

This was confirmed when my mate wanted to trade his old laser in and they told him they can only offer $500 and even then it was only as a gesture of goodwill and convenience to the customer, suggesting he sell it privately. He late sold it for $1500.

[Big Mike]

Right well clearly a number of the people posting in this thread are morons.

However, ignoring all the stupidity and ignorance that always used to fire me up; I'll simply try to answer the question from the sensible Member who asked me:

XHII V8S - I'll try to be as honest as I can be.
Firstly, I'm trying to picture an EL or AU-1 Falcon being worth anything more than 8 to 12 grand. However an excellent example, in the right market, with the right audience, and tissied up to get the attention of a certain type of buyer, can attract a much greater value (buy building a "want factor"). This greater value IS NOT false, necessarily, as when you sell it in five years time you will come accross someone wanting to pay $10g then, rather than selling it to the first guy who wants any old ute - which he may be able to pick up for under $6g at the time.
Secondly, keep in mind that while the latest copy of Glasses Guide is sent to all dealers, you CAN NOT look in a book and get its value. Could you go and sell it tomorrow for $16,800 no questions asked? Spending thousands on wheels makes a car slightly more appealing - maybe a few hundred dollars better. The accessorries do not add up from their retail prices, and if you went to trade it in tomorrow, they would look in that book - then ring around other yards and wholesalers to see what they could wholesale it for, work out what they think they could sell it for on the lot, and work backwards from their. I.e:
Let's say they can sell it for $15,990. Less GST (13.5), 800 for warranty (12.7), yard fees [vary from 1800 to well over 3.5k in some yards - in this case we'll say 2k] (10.7), and then - while some profit can be made in the 'yard fees' depending on expendature like floorplans, advertising, if its busy or slow, etc. these will fluctuate - the actual profit margin needs to go on top of that, so lets say they will factor in a grand margin. So they buy the car for $9,700; sell it for $15,990, and they have made a total profit of ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Not much for a big business really, is it?????

So, did they buy it for $5,000 wholesale (trade in/auction/other yard), spend $2,000 on hardcover, wheels, colour coding, whatever else, and put in on the lot for $16,990, see if there's any takers, week later drop it to $15,990 (more in line with 'market values' as seen in other yards or internet); then as you looked at the car the manager told the salesman on his way out to greet you "there's a quid in that car", so when you ask of negotiating he said "whaddya wanna pay?" - OR ALTERNATIVELY did they get stung on another deal somewhere and wound up paying $10,000 or more, with the car then oweing them $14,200ish (working on math above) have $15,990 on the window for AGES, then happy to see it go for $14,000? A theoretical "$200 loss" (although not technically a loss in that some bills were paid, commissions afforded, etc.)

Which one is it? In my opinion, based on my experience, I would say without a shadow of a doubt there's a 90% chance the latter applied. Dressed up cars can often be a LOT of trouble. Though you need them to get people in, and I would have thought they'd sell like hotcakes, but I reckon based on my experience you did allright.

Also - I would say the suggestion that you may consider buying without a trade - (you know full well you'll get a grand or 1500 for it later privately) indicates they know its worth to them maybe $200 if you're lucky - and this compliments the above argument where they simply didn't have the money to throw away (unless you said "gee 16 grand's allright, but I really need a grand for mine - where do I sign?").

SO IN MY OPINION: You paid a fair price for your vehicle. Ok not super cheap, but certainly not overpriced. A car's value is only ever what you could get for it. And after looking at Glasses Guide you could probably sell it privately with confidence for 15-16+ grand without feeling like you're ripping people off right? In which case, yes you got a good deal. And I believe with these circumstances the car yard was probably pretty close to the bottom of their barrell.

And as for suggestion a trade wastes a dealers' time - it wastes a salesman's time, with the exception of being able to build better rapport with the customer and understand their needs/wants better. But for the dealership weather its a EA, VN, TP, or any other clapped out heap if they can make $50 to $100 when they sell it to a wholesaler that's another $50 or $100 back into the dealership - perhaps to help with a really skinny deal on the new car, which can certainly happen especially with all the fleet discounts and intra-dealer competition nowadays.
Occasionally - as was alledged buy SUVshopper a really neat and tidy old car comes along and may be worth a little more. However, unless the dealer also runs a 'cheap car' yard, they will still only make their $50 to $100, that is if they can!

Do you feel I've addressed your query XHII V8S?

[Timmeh]

I was alot better off selling my Focus privately and being able to walk into a dealership and saying "no trade-in". I got more for the Focus than what I would trading it in by several grand, and meant the dealership could do a better deal on the Falcon I bought, as they don't have to factor in any potential loss on the Focus too.

Was the only way I walked away from the dealership with a one year old BA XR6 automatic with a 2300kg tow pack for 23 grand - no trade in to deal with.

Oh yeah by the way, salesman that give you bad attitudes suck. Luckily the salesman that I ended up buying from understood my concerns about buying a Falcon and went out of his way to help.

Tim

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

10 Grand????

I would have said "I'LL TAKE IT !!!!!!!!!

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

Right well clearly a number of the people posting in this thread are morons.

However, ignoring all the stupidity and ignorance that always used to fire me up;

I'll have to pull you up on this one Mike, everyone is entitled to an opinion and whilst some may be less than kind to your profession I dont see levels of stupidity or ignorance you claim to have read.

Ignorance and stupidity are with us all through everyday life. And there are plenty of examples of both, on both sides of the car sales equation. Unrealistic customers, and salesman who do not listen are commonplace.