Not good news for the Australian automotive industry

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

I hope so. Will be interesting to see how many BFIIs will be sold during the month of October. Hey RATT, how is initial public interest/demand going for the new models?

FF

Nothing really different yet. Althought the car hasn't really been officially released. Even the Ford website still has BF on there.

I don't think there will be too much difference as it's really the market as a whole that's down not so much Ford.

[Gomez]

Great thread, this!!

This is my 19th post on this forum. You wont find the previous 18, they were all in a thread I started called "The F6 is too expensive...."

The thread was deleted when two long time forum members (who as it turns out own F6's) took exception to the thread topic and had a few shots at me. I fired back, and the Mod on the receiving end deleted the thread. Que sera, sera.

The point I was trying to get across was this.....the 270kw F6 is way too dear when compared to the new 270kw VE SS. I understand the cars have differences, but not enough to justify the price hike of the F6 over the SS. Ford have just dropped the XR6T price by a few grand to compete with the VE and I think the F6 is due for a price drop too. In my thread I concentrated on two models competing for the performance dollar (and my business), but the fact is they are competing with cars like the MPS Mazda 6 as well.

The Button plan to reduce tariffs was introduced in the 80's. It has had a great impact on the quality of new Australian cars. They are much better now, the big two have lifted their game. Holden has gone a step further with the VE and it will be a great success, IMO. The fuel price is heading in the right direction again and the sales numbers of the Falcon and Commodore will improve commensurately.

I don't think the Australian industry is in real trouble. I think it has to adjust and it seems like Ford and Holden are doing that with re-pricing, up-specing and improvements in fuel efficiency etc.

There is still work to do but I think it'll all work out in the wash...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Gomez

Great thread, this!!

This is my 19th post on this forum. You wont find the previous 18, they were all in a thread I started called "The F6 is too expensive...."

The thread was deleted when two long time forum members (who as it turns out own F6's) took exception to the thread topic and had a few shots at me. I fired back, and the Mod on the receiving end deleted the thread. Que sera, sera.

The point I was trying to get across was this.....the 270kw F6 is way too dear when compared to the new 270kw VE SS. I understand the cars have differences, but not enough to justify the price hike of the F6 over the SS. Ford have just dropped the XR6T price by a few grand to compete with the VE and I think the F6 is due for a price drop too. In my thread I concentrated on two models competing for the performance dollar (and my business), but the fact is they are competing with cars like the MPS Mazda 6 as well.

The Button plan to reduce tariffs was introduced in the 80's. It has had a great impact on the quality of new Australian cars. They are much better now, the big two have lifted their game. Holden has gone a step further with the VE and it will be a great success, IMO. The fuel price is heading in the right direction again and the sales numbers of the Falcon and Commodore will improve commensurately.

I don't think the Australian industry is in real trouble. I think it has to adjust and it seems like Ford and Holden are doing that with re-pricing, up-specing and improvements in fuel efficiency etc.

There is still work to do but I think it'll all work out in the wash...

Not when your talking SSV which is similarly equiped to the Typhoon. Things like side bags, Dual Zone climate control, premium sound are all standard on the Typhoon which are an option on the standard SS.

Your looking at mid 50's to low 60's for an SSV or a Typhoon. The SSV isnt even in the same class.

If you want to compare apples to apples compare the XR6 Turbo to the SS. Makes more sense.

[Gomez]

The fifteen grand price difference is still too much. It'll be interesting to see what the FPV BFII launch reveals.

[Spotty]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

It is a sad thing to happen. Personally I think removing the tariffs on imports has also contributed to the decline of the Aussie large car. Ford and Holden need to bring a little more quality and value for money into their cars. They're not innovative enough with their flagship cars. I'd like to say i would get another falcon but i don't want to be burnt by crap quality again.

Ditto. After the appalling quality issues I had with my new 03 BA XR8, the attitude of the dealer and the disgraceful battle I had with ford head office AND the huge depreciation, I will NEVER EVER buy a new ford again. In the furure I may look at an older model as a project car but thats about it. Bought myself a new accord euro in june and couldnt be happier. Its got great build quality, good handling and performance, tons of room and the best thing is ....I no longer have to drive laround listening out for strange noises, clunks from the drive line, dodgy brakes or collect bits of interior plastic off the floor. The piece of mind alone has been worth the changeover.

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Spotty

Ditto. After the appalling quality issues I had with my new 03 BA XR8, the attitude of the dealer and the disgraceful battle I had with ford head office AND the huge depreciation, I will NEVER EVER buy a new ford again. In the furure I may look at an older model as a project car but thats about it. Bought myself a new accord euro in june and couldnt be happier. Its got great build quality, good handling and performance, tons of room and the best thing is ....I no longer have to drive laround listening out for strange noises, clunks from the drive line, dodgy brakes or collect bits of interior plastic off the floor. The piece of mind alone has been worth the changeover.

Do you have the box of tissues behind the backseat headrests too..??

[Veefore]

Originally Posted by Mutley

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

I only need to look at the two 10 year old cars parked outside my office. One is a BMW 325 and the other is a Falcon. The Falcon owner has spend FAR less on servicing and repairs over the last 3 years while the BMW owner has spent enough to buy a 10 year old falcon. The plastics and materials in the Falcon still look reasonable while the BMW interior looks 40 years old. After seeing the evidence I am starting to believe that the illusion of quality in the European cars may be just that, an illusion.

[Veefore]

Originally Posted by Ruger

only the yuppies believe the germans are excelent quality. these are the same people that call them self metrosexual.

Actually, I think that it may be the CUB's* that are looking at Euro's and raving about their quality instead of fairly comparing Aussie cars at the moment.






*Cashed UP Bogans.

[Spotty]

Originally Posted by aualright

Do you have the box of tissues behind the backseat headrests too..??

I did have until the headrest broke off and the tissues flew out the rear window after I hit a speed hump and the glass fell out. :

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Gomez

I don't think the Australian industry is in real trouble. I think it has to adjust and it seems like Ford and Holden are doing that with re-pricing, up-specing and improvements in fuel efficiency etc.

There is still work to do but I think it'll all work out in the wash...

I think you need to stop looking at the world through rose coloured glasses.

FF

[chich]

Originally Posted by Spotty

Ditto. After the appalling quality issues I had with my new 03 BA XR8, the attitude of the dealer and the disgraceful battle I had with ford head office AND the huge depreciation, I will NEVER EVER buy a new ford again. In the furure I may look at an older model as a project car but thats about it. Bought myself a new accord euro in june and couldnt be happier. Its got great build quality, good handling and performance, tons of room and the best thing is ....I no longer have to drive laround listening out for strange noises, clunks from the drive line, dodgy brakes or collect bits of interior plastic off the floor. The piece of mind alone has been worth the changeover.

I've been waiting patiently for someone such as yourself to come along and add strength to my argument. Yet another happy Ford customer...

[chich]

Originally Posted by Veefore

I only need to look at the two 10 year old cars parked outside my office. One is a BMW 325 and the other is a Falcon. The Falcon owner has spend FAR less on servicing and repairs over the last 3 years while the BMW owner has spent enough to buy a 10 year old falcon. The plastics and materials in the Falcon still look reasonable while the BMW interior looks 40 years old. After seeing the evidence I am starting to believe that the illusion of quality in the European cars may be just that, an illusion.

So you've formed an opinion based on looking at two cars?? I'm sure i don't have to remind you that not everyone looks after their cars..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

To be perfectly honest the power and torque produced by our engines is done thru capacity, not technology. The new 3.5 V6 in the Aurion will produce 200+kw, while using less fuel. Using extra capacity to produce power is kinda cheating, similar to strapping a turbo on.

10 KW extra and 40Nm less in torque at higher revs, and all the power thru the front wheels, also the auto will limit it. You seriously dont realise the potential the I6 has. The Aurion will be a reving motor, produced by an international company with a buget for a car that will be sold in alot more places than the Falcon will. Let Toyota have FOA's engine buget and see how magnificent they will be.

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

But i would love too see the big guys work with Ford/Holden's Budgets work force and see if they can produce better cars at the same amounts, They would struggle no vodka on the job today

I would love to see the Japanese have to face the same problems building cars as GM or Ford. You look at the production line in a Japanese plant and they build one car thats it, they will even seperate the hi-series and low-series cars on different lines. They dont need workers as a monkey can do their job. Plus they have about three production engineers for every one Ford/holden have. Ford/Holden will build there cars on one production line and the operator needs to be on the ball to get it right as there are so many variations on models that it gets tough.

BMW is probably the best comapny out there as they build alot of different cars on the same line and do it quite well, but they have the budget to get it right as well. But than again they build cars in asia and africa. Maybe FOA or GMH should move operations....

[Mutley]

Originally Posted by chich

So you've formed an opinion based on looking at two cars?? I'm sure i don't have to remind you that not everyone looks after their cars..

Sorry but haven't you based your opinions on one car? If you see my original post, I point out that when you compare the ways cars are treated, the quality of the Aussie falcons and commodores are hard to beat when cars are abused.

Have you stopped to to consider why Australian cars are so popular in the Middle East in a market that has access to cars all over the world? One reason. Because they are more reliable than European and North American cars.

[XR Martin]

Toyota have had quite a few recalls over the last couple of years. There also a court case that the Japanese Goverment have against Toyota in regards to them not recalling cars when they knew the faults could result in fatalities. A family died in a Surf when the steering broke, which Toyota knew could happen, but didnt recall because it could hurt there image.
After that came to light years after happening, Toyota had to recall something like 300,000+ cars.

Originally Posted by Gomez

Great thread, this!!

This is my 19th post on this forum. You wont find the previous 18, they were all in a thread I started called "The F6 is too expensive...."

The thread was deleted when two long time forum members (who as it turns out own F6's) took exception to the thread topic and had a few shots at me. I fired back, and the Mod on the receiving end deleted the thread. Que sera, sera.

The point I was trying to get across was this.....the 270kw F6 is way too dear when compared to the new 270kw VE SS. I understand the cars have differences, but not enough to justify the price hike of the F6 over the SS. Ford have just dropped the XR6T price by a few grand to compete with the VE and I think the F6 is due for a price drop too. In my thread I concentrated on two models competing for the performance dollar (and my business), but the fact is they are competing with cars like the MPS Mazda 6 as well.

The Button plan to reduce tariffs was introduced in the 80's. It has had a great impact on the quality of new Australian cars. They are much better now, the big two have lifted their game. Holden has gone a step further with the VE and it will be a great success, IMO. The fuel price is heading in the right direction again and the sales numbers of the Falcon and Commodore will improve commensurately.

I don't think the Australian industry is in real trouble. I think it has to adjust and it seems like Ford and Holden are doing that with re-pricing, up-specing and improvements in fuel efficiency etc.

There is still work to do but I think it'll all work out in the wash...

I'd like to know where you were when HSV's had 260kw, the same as the XR8?

It's a new model so Holden should have the upper hand due to its newness. If you harped on about the F6 being expensive then I see why the thread was deleted.

[Gomez]

Originally Posted by RATT

I'd like to know where you were when HSV's had 260kw, the same as the XR8?

Good point. The ball is now in FPV's court. The Clubsport now has over 300kw...if the BFII F6 matches it then all is good with the world.

Personally, I only expect a small power increase (10kw?)....