Why can't we option manual on fairmonts etc?

P6LTD351 · 21-11-2006, 09:39 PM

Back in the gold old days you could basically order anything when buying a new car. I'm in the market for a new fairmont/fairmont ghia. The only thing stopping me is the fact you can't option a manual. I understand it's been like this for over 10 - 15 years now. The red camp is the same with their luxury models. But why? Surely it's not hard to organise this on the assembly line? Surely cost can't be a factor. Not everyone who drives a manual wants an XR6/8. Does anyone else agree? Maybe we should start a petition going

**Silver Ghia** · 21-11-2006, 09:57 PM

Yeah, I agree, especially with the sports theme on the Ghias these days.

Manual mode on the auto is not the same.

Powdered Toast Man · 21-11-2006, 10:03 PM

You'll find its a bean counter decision based on sales. If only 1% of Faimonts bought are manuals than why waste money developing that as an option. The planning for the assembly line costs money so if they can reduce it by doing something that will result in negligible sales impact they will. Its not as simple as just including it on a spec sheet. Production planning takes time and somebody has to be payed for that time. I know cause thats what I do, although not for the auto industry.

But I do agree with you on principle. They do it with the lower spec models too. I dont think you can get a manual V8 XT anymore but you could when the BA was first released. I think they did the same thing with the AU and maybe even the e-series.

TURBOTAXI · 21-11-2006, 10:19 PM

Holden do it? (at least they used to) why wouldnt FORD? I know they dont, but I think they should.

Dezza · 21-11-2006, 10:40 PM

It annoys me too. I'm not in the market for a new car at the moment, but if I was, I would want a Ghia manual. Unfortunately, the manufacturers seem to think that anyone who wants luxury doesn't like to change gears.

henry 351 · 21-11-2006, 10:53 PM

I had the "no manual available" dilemma explained to me as follows. Basically, every new car exists as a computer code with Ford or Holden. The codes simply do not exist to build a manual Fairmont Ghia or Berlina V8 Wagon etc. based on the incredibly low demand. The manual labour input to create such a car is prohibitively expensive and would send the automated assembly line into meltdown/shutdown, i.e. $$$.

Because of this robotic automation compared to the higher "hands on" manual labour content of 30 years ago, they just can't (and won't) stop the production line to do low volume or one off requests here and there. Even the paint shops are geared up to do multiple cars in the one color at a time, not one red, one blue etc, like the old days.

GK · 21-11-2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry 351

I had the "no manual available" dilemma explained to me as follows. Basically, every new car exists as a computer code with Ford or Holden. The codes simply do not exist to build a manual Fairmont Ghia or Berlina V8 Wagon etc. based on the incredibly low demand. The manual labour input to create such a car is prohibitively expensive and would send the automated assembly line into meltdown/shutdown, i.e. $$$.

Because of this robotic automation compared to the higher "hands on" manual labour content of 30 years ago, they just can't (and won't) stop the production line to do low volume or one off requests here and there. Even the paint shops are geared up to do multiple cars in the one color at a time, not one red, one blue etc, like the old days.

The $$$ do the talking don't they.

You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black! LOL!

Makes sense though.

GK

XR6TickfordBoy · 22-11-2006, 12:51 AM

simple marketing, every product is geared to a specific target market! As Fairmonts/ghia's are targeted at older consumers for luxury/perfromance extra's etc. The manual just doesn't fit this profile, as said the cost and trouble to interrupt production to fill special orders is just not viable! Of course they know there will be some unhappy customers but market research will tell them that 90%+ of that market only want auto!

FalconXV · 22-11-2006, 01:23 AM

Surely they could make the T-56 a delete option though?

merlin · 22-11-2006, 07:31 AM

Because people have become lazy, traffic has become heavier, autos have become smarter (but still dont hold a candle to a manual) and no-one seems to want a manual anymore (except me :-P)

OzJavelin · 22-11-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry 351

I had the "no manual available" dilemma explained to me as follows. Basically, every new car exists as a computer code with Ford or Holden. The codes simply do not exist to build a manual Fairmont Ghia or Berlina V8 Wagon etc. based on the incredibly low demand. The manual labour input to create such a car is prohibitively expensive and would send the automated assembly line into meltdown/shutdown, i.e. $$$.

Ahh .. to hark back to the good old days .. the supposedly "unobtainable" 427 Camaro .. available by COPO anyone?

MITCHAY · 22-11-2006, 08:04 AM

This is probably the biggest reason why I never considered buying a Falcon or Commodore other than from the performance fleet-THEY'RE ALL AUTOS!!

It's simply the company telling their customers "were going to give you this, take it or leave it". Tiptronic is not a manual!

With the car I bought its is 99% guarenteed you will get a manual!

:

**Polyal** · 22-11-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry 351

I had the "no manual available" dilemma explained to me as follows. Basically, every new car exists as a computer code with Ford or Holden. The codes simply do not exist to build a manual Fairmont Ghia or Berlina V8 Wagon etc. based on the incredibly low demand. The manual labour input to create such a car is prohibitively expensive and would send the automated assembly line into meltdown/shutdown, i.e. $$$.

Partly right, its just laziness and accountants getting in the way.

As for the ECU thats BS, you can get a manual ute, it runs the same engines as the sedans with the same accessories, if there was a difference between how a ute is calibrated and how a sedan is then its very very small.

You can get a n/a XR6 in manual, so why no ghia? There is no good reason, Ford need all the sales they can get, if there is a small demand for a manual ghia (or whatever) then let them have it, its better than no sale at all.

Dont even get me started on the Force series
:jab:

cArSiK · 22-11-2006, 08:48 AM

thats what the Luxury pack on the XR's is all about.

**Polyal** · 22-11-2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cArSiK

thats what the Luxury pack on the XR's is all about.

Not if you want the look of a Ghia, not everyone likes the XR's. Plus atleast the BF2 Ghia looks different.

henry 351 · 22-11-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Partly right, its just laziness and accountants getting in the way.

As for the ECU thats BS, you can get a manual ute, it runs the same engines as the sedans with the same accessories, if there was a difference between how a ute is calibrated and how a sedan is then its very very small.

Dont even get me started on the Force series
:jab:

Matey, I was referring to the robotic assembly software, not the ECU for specific models. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I agree with your Force issue, they would have had an order for a manual Force 8 from me to replace my manual BA GT.

Mark351 · 22-11-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry 351

Even the paint shops are geared up to do multiple cars in the one color at a time, not one red, one blue etc, like the old days.

Not the paint shop at Broady. Does whatever colour the car on that line needs. They don't do cars in 'colour batches'.

janek · 22-11-2006, 01:25 PM

im the same, if there was a ghia manual, i'd be in the market... The only thing you can do is convert... and waste a perfectly good auto box

xe351 · 22-11-2006, 01:47 PM

would it really be that difficult to have a small team at Ford to do special orders? i agree, not enough manuals sold.....

XPcoupe · 22-11-2006, 01:56 PM

You would think with all the computers running the show they would simply tick a box "manual" and the ordering/build systems would take care of the rest. They do it with color, trim and engine why not the transmission.

Does the Fairmont come with a different diff ratio for cruising old farts. Would that have some thing to do with it? Maybe weighs more so fuel economy would go out the window. Just some ideas.

Was the TE50/TS50 available in Manual they were based on Fairmont’s weren't they.

**Polyal** · 22-11-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPcoupe

Was the TE50/TS50 available in Manual they were based on Fairmont’s weren't they.

Absolutely they had manuals, as do the current GTP's....work that one out.

:

janek · 22-11-2006, 02:42 PM

its to eliminate the hoons out of the market me thinks.

Mind you, it'd be good for ford having brand new ghias out at the local strip... ppl would be thinking, crap, im getting me one of those!

danege · 22-11-2006, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janek

its to eliminate the hoons out of the market me thinks.

You can't hoon in an auto?

brenx · 22-11-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janek

its to eliminate the hoons out of the market me thinks.

um? Most hoons have autos.

Lightning Strike GT · 22-11-2006, 10:31 PM

Actually HOLDEN did it to one of my neighbours a few years ago
He wanted a Calais 3.8 supercharged 6 speed manual and Holden oblidged BUT it was delivered to the dealers an auto and they changed it to a manual at the work shop it took weeks and many $$$$ but he had an original VY Calais 3.8 sup charged with a 6 speed manual
With the money spent he could of got a new clubby with the full list of options

HLC · 22-11-2006, 10:50 PM

Everyone who buys a new fairmont is too old to change gears.

outback_ute · 22-11-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry 351

I had the "no manual available" dilemma explained to me as follows. Basically, every new car exists as a computer code with Ford or Holden. The codes simply do not exist to build a manual Fairmont Ghia or Berlina V8 Wagon etc. based on the incredibly low demand. The manual labour input to create such a car is prohibitively expensive and would send the automated assembly line into meltdown/shutdown, i.e. $$$.

It would be easy to have the necessary codes available though - cost to implement the necessary code would be paid for by the first such car sold I would have thought. It's not like there would be new parts/calibrations needed in most cases. Just the "too hard" basket really. I wonder how the implementation of things like the BMW Individual program worked, where you could have all sorts of options almost to the point of one-offs