QLD BIG Increase in Fines !!!!

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I meant Western NSW, it's only a relatively short trip. NT is well isolated from the "hoons" and can therefore cope (I think) much better than NSW .

Ways and means to apply (//) - we can set a "recommended limit" with it, as an example 110km/h, BUT such a recommended limit must not then become 'prima facie', as that in turn has legal complexities.

Certain rural highways could safely adopt 130km/h, but realistically (//) on such 130km/h proposed roads would generally be a safer option to avoid the bunching-up effect.

We cannot use (//) or raise a freeway category road speed limits until the medians on them have full-length barrier, to do otherwise would be negligent.

In recognition of our wildlife, it is feasible that (//) or a higher limit could be applied as a daytime allowance, and then automatically reverted back to the rural 'default' 100km/h at night (dusk/dawn).

Ways and means of better managing speed limits or derestriction.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Meh. Really is dependant on the situation IMO.

If people actually drove appropiately to the conditions of the road and within the capabilities of their car, there would be no need for speed limits. But that is in an ideal world.

Well its already in a real world actually (e.g. Germany) and there is no mass slaughter as a result. But it requires educational and attitudinal changes in the driving population.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Well its already in a real world actually (e.g. Germany) and there is no mass slaughter as a result. But it requires educational and attitudinal changes in the driving population.

Sure, but also certain mandatory equipment, such as that reflected in my Sig, AND we then teach the young and old about it. It is a whole cultural change that is required, and as the Federal Roads Minister stated a couple of years ago, vis - 'to achieve German like lane discipline and behaviour will take generations to achieve here'.

"Aussies just don't get it, and simply can't get it together on the roads". (My old female boss-world traveller).

[OLDFORDNUT]

amazing ,we have cars that stop in half the distance of 25 years ago,much much better roads,and yet we still have the same speed limits.its just all a big joke,

[Scott]

Keepleft, much as I'd like it, // in NSW would be a disaster. As you suggested, a limit of 130 (or even 140) on some roads would be a more suitable and less desirable (to those who would head on a speed holiday) solution.

edit - BTW, tell your old boss to head to Indo or or India before she complains too much.

[[Tonko]]

Originally Posted by OED666

did anyone know that the fine for j walking is $130!!! I think speeding more than 10 to 15k's over the limit is less then this.

only $130? its $200 on the spot here, all 28 of us got done one morning on a pub crawl at 3 am in a redneck town, then another $200 for drinking on the bus....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Keepleft, much as I'd like it, // in NSW would be a disaster. As you suggested, a limit of 130 (or even 140) on some roads would be a more suitable and less desirable (to those who would head on a speed holiday) solution.

edit - BTW, tell your old boss to head to Indo or or India before she complains too much.

Done all that.

NB - India is on long term road building project, with key funding from the World Bank. The project includes around 47 thousand kilometres of world class motorway, and an upgrade to existing national highways totalling in the hundreds of thousands of kilometres. India recognises (//) btw on its key routes.

The (//) allowance I refer, in application, would only apply to certain lengths of rural, western NSW highway at this stage. Road off the highway would come under the rural default, or as otherwise signposted. Roozendal did not knock the idea off, rather passed it to RTA (again) and asked that I chase it myself.

A key reason why the preference of (//) over a speed limit, even a relatively high one, is to eliminate or substantially reduce the bunching-up effect, of people sitting too close at the higher speeds. Yes true, - the higher speed limit (not meaning (//) here), will means SOME reduction of this bunching up effect in any case, but it will still occur.

We do need to set our highway speed-limits, (where we need them), more to the 85th percentile. A problem however is gaining a 'real and accurate' figure for this, yes, we can go and do radar survey and give the 85th percetile result, but that result will not necessarily be accurate. Why? - -

An old study I have from the early 1980's shows a higher 85th percentile limit figure in NSW when measured when under a (//) allowance. The 85th percentile figure after NSW's 100km/h rural default implementation was lower. My point being therefore one cannot gain a proper free-speed figure under a speed limit enviuronment, because folk do tend to stick reasonably close to the posted speed limit, (safe or not). To a degree, this is part of what I call "speed limit conditioning".

I accept to a degree, - some political concern at (//) prospect. Yet at heart I, and some speed managers feel it would be a safe implementation if handled correctly, and should not adversely affect the overall road network.

Regardless, if we are to raise some speed limits, or use (//) - politically unlikely and that would be a loss, we *must* also improve our vehicle standard equipment list, so what we have is equal to Europe and heck, even China now.

We would do well to tighten up the NVS (National Vehicle Standards) in relation to tyres, so that passenger vehicle categories must, like ADR insists for new market entries; "have only a tyre fitted - that meets or betters the cars top speed potential". That this is not the case for post ADR vehicles under NVS, (the used car fleet) is negligent. This issue was a concern of NT transport people under (//).

We can do much to improve things, much more.

Regards.

[Outbackjack]

One of the concerns that I have with the current state of affairs up here is road condition. Over the last 5 years of the current Government there has been a noticable decline in the condition of the main highways, dont mention the gravel ones. This is worrying because the federal government funds the highway maintenance out here. I would like to ask the Chief Minister where the money is being spent. Water front developments I think. It would be the next step in the governments plan to say "since the roads are in poor condition, we must lower the speed limit to 110" That will really bring in the big bucks that can be handed out to flipant projects.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

yeah it was a spur of the moment comment, but seriously, 20+ over the limit is a bit much and uncalled for...

You really do have to get out of Victoria one day. This is a VERY big country, it is not all like Melbourne

20km/h over the limit near a school at 8:30 am is very dangerous.

20km/h over the limit in the 110 zones in western QLD where you can see to the horizon will get you run over from behind by just about eveything.

Limits are set by bureaucrats is shiny boxes in the city who seldom actually see the real world. They are arbitory numbers that may or may not be suitable for the situation.

It worries me that the young people of today are so eager to just wear this crap.

[Scott]

Convention Centre & Wharf Upgrade??

[GCFordChic]

Originally Posted by csv8

failing to give way to emergency vehicles will cost $175 and three demerit points.

I think the three demerit points is suitable, but agree with others that the fine is not big enough.

I am intrigued, however, as to how they police this... What I mean is, if an emergency services vehicle is on the way to an emergency, who stops to book the person who failed to give way? Do firies and paramedics report number plates then it is followed up later, or does a police vehicle have to pull over the person and fine them on the spot?

[james22]

Originally Posted by kyro_02

i reckon the amber light doesn't stay on long enough .. an sometimes you hesitate !

i also reckon ... passengers who insist on telling you 'why didn't you go through the green light, you should of gone !' even after I point out there be an ambulance or fire truck entering an intersection with the lights and sirens blaring... it should be legal to slap the *hit out of your passenger/s.

Here Here lol, some ppl have no idea

[fiery]

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

I am intrigued, however, as to how they police this... What I mean is, if an emergency services vehicle is on the way to an emergency, who stops to book the person who failed to give way? Do firies and paramedics report number plates then it is followed up later, or does a police vehicle have to pull over the person and fine them on the spot?

From my understanding the emergency service vehicle attendants can report either immediately or as close to the approximate time the offenders registration number plate to the Police, who then will follow up.
This would more than likely go through radio communication of the particular vehicle.

[phoon]

Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop

I reckon the fine for this should be even higher.

Emergency Services have enough to worry about without the general public ignorantly and arrogantly getting in their way.

I find it hard to comprehend why anyone would not give way to an emergency vehicle. Just shows how stupid some people can be.

[El Venom]

increasing the fines is fair enough, but when are the going to start inforceing the rules we already have eg tailgating, not keeping left, failing to give way ect. i have witnessed people breaking these laws right in front of police officers and they do nothing, yet they will go sit for hours watching a carpark waiting for someone to turn on there stereo to loud or turn on exterior neons

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really do have to get out of Victoria one day. This is a VERY big country, it is not all like Melbourne

20km/h over the limit near a school at 8:30 am is very dangerous.

20km/h over the limit in the 110 zones in western QLD where you can see to the horizon will get you run over from behind by just about eveything.

Limits are set by bureaucrats is shiny boxes in the city who seldom actually see the real world. They are arbitory numbers that may or may not be suitable for the situation.

It worries me that the young people of today are so eager to just wear this crap.

I do get out of Victoria. I never said that doing 20+ is dangerous and you will instantly die; but I do think that its just not necessary on public roads.

And before you go on about the NT, who the heck cares, what percentage of the population lives, or even visits there, bugger all. Personally I think its a shame that the laws have changed out there. because generally the people that use those roads and live there have the respect and ability to deal with the situation.

I agree in most cases, on a highway, its very safe to go to say 150ish, but the problem with this country is that there are so many sh|tboxes around that it just wont work. And to add to that the general motorist here is an idiot.

It works in Europe etc because there attitude and culture is so much different to ours, they grow up with it and respect it. That will never, ever happen here.

When I was in France not long ago, my GF Aunty took us for a drive (Jag XJ V8), she is ~70y.o and even she was sitting on 140kph! That was a shock to the system, but thats just how it is over there and it works for them.

So, I am not willing to wear anything, perhaps you are out of touch with the general pleb that drives around in his rusted out Corolla.

There is a time and a place for "speed", but in this country it will just be abused.

edit: not to mention the pathetic condition of our road system compare to other countries that have high limits.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So, I am not willing to wear anything, perhaps you are out of touch with the general pleb that drives around in his rusted out Corolla.

Top speed 130 with a tail wind.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I do get out of Victoria. I never said that doing 20+ is dangerous and you will instantly die; but I do think that its just not necessary on public roads.

And before you go on about the NT, who the heck cares, what percentage of the population lives, or even visits there, bugger all. Personally I think its a shame that the laws have changed out there. because generally the people that use those roads and live there have the respect and ability to deal with the situation.

I agree in most cases, on a highway, its very safe to go to say 150ish, but the problem with this country is that there are so many sh|tboxes around that it just wont work. And to add to that the general motorist here is an idiot.

It works in Europe etc because there attitude and culture is so much different to ours, they grow up with it and respect it. That will never, ever happen here.

When I was in France not long ago, my GF Aunty took us for a drive (Jag XJ V8), she is ~70y.o and even she was sitting on 140kph! That was a shock to the system, but thats just how it is over there and it works for them.

So, I am not willing to wear anything, perhaps you are out of touch with the general pleb that drives around in his rusted out Corolla.

There is a time and a place for "speed", but in this country it will just be abused.

edit: not to mention the pathetic condition of our road system compare to other countries that have high limits.

I did not mention NT, I was talking about QUEENSLAND, the place where I live.

As I stated earlier it is all about judgement.

[Brent]

Having driven in the big isolated expanses of WA, NT and Queensland in my younger years, and more recently, in Germany on the autobahns (in a Porsche 911 Carerra S :sm_headba ) I wish I could say that 'open' speed limits as such would work here in Aus, but I just can't see it ever happening.

OK, sure, in Germany it was a hoot cracking the double tonne etc, but in the day to day driving there, what was GENUINELY refreshing was the etiquette, especially regarding lane use. The open limits work in Germany not only due to better roads etc, but its the attitude of the drivers that makes it work. Trucks use the slow lane, other cars just cruising use the middle lanes, faster cars doing 140-160 or so use the lane one out from the inside, and the very inside lane is the fast lane....and when a car comes up behind you, you damned well get out of the way, straight away! And hey, guess what, it works!

Around the cities, people generally keep to the limit and are fairly courteous. Also, the absence of tryhards in farting, wheezing clapped out cars trying to drop burnouts at the lights with the doof-doof pumping was err, somewhat obvious. Dare I say it, but the attitude was more mature and intelligent than what you see here.

In hindsight, it was quite bizarre being back on Australian roads after being in Germany. In the built up areas where its more dangerous, we duck and dive and tailgate. We accelerate harshly and brake abruptly. We race down narrow roads and weave around pedestrians. We drive fast i nwet weather. But out on the big open highways, we sit like lemmings on 100kph on roads that are engineered to handle 130kph with ease. Sure, the latter largely as a result of our fixation with speed enforecement, but when you look at what's happening, its all wrong. But then, it comes down to attitude. Can the average turkey on the road actually handle anything else?

So, when looking at the Australian experience, never mind our old cars or dodgy roads etc here. Hell, if the general populace can't even grasp the concept of "Keep Left" then really, we've got zero hope of the utopia of open limits.

To make matters worse, we have State Governments who have become addicted to rich lure of road fine revenue as a method of balancing the annual budget, all under the guise of "Speed Kills" campaigns. So, we're breeding a mindset wherein Mr & Mrs Average think that if they set the cruise control on the Magna to 100kph then they'll be nice & safe and can just turn off their brains and fall asleep. So when when their Magna and caravan leaves the road and gets wrapped around a gumtree, or spreads itself like roadkill over the front of a B-Double, everyone scratches their heads and wonders how it happened.

The average person has neither the attitude, nor the ability. General roadcraft skills have been bred out of us via apathy, ineptitude and over-government, and it'll take decades, if ever, to regain these skills and more positive attitudes. Its a sad indictment, but its the reality chaps.

Brent.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Polyal

yeah it was a spur of the moment comment, but seriously, 20+ over the limit is a bit much and uncalled for...

Depends on the time and place.

20k over in any built up area during office hours = Stupid.

But how about 20kmh (or more) over on a new 3 kilometre section of Interstate country road that only needs armco railing along some sections to finish it, and has 40kmh restrictions out at 3am?

[Keepleft]

Polyal wrote - I agree in most cases, on a highway, its very safe to go to say 150ish, but the problem with this country is that there are so many sh|tboxes around that it just wont work. And to add to that the general motorist here is an idiot.

This raises the question "why" AUSTRALIANS are such "idiots" behind the wheel? (I'm in the roads game btw). Part of the answer follows in your statement:-

It works in Europe etc because there attitude and culture is so much different to ours, they grow up with it and respect it. That will never, ever happen here.

Never? To change driving culture in Australia means to target education, to remove social engineering from our system, to remove dumbing-down and give people greater responsibility for their actions. It means basics, like being able to comprehend why, (AND HOW) one should wear a vest, place a triangle, indicate correctly etc.

When I was in France not long ago, my GF Aunty took us for a drive (Jag XJ V8), she is ~70y.o and even she was sitting on 140kph! That was a shock to the system, but thats just how it is over there and it works for them.

Absolutely, an older lady friend goes to Italy each year on furniture hunts and holidays - and drives up through to Denmark. Speeds - 90 - 220km/h, and she's just on age 60. Its a normal European thing, and as you say reflects in behaviour. Australian's are antagonistic, yet the Euro's are not quite so, except say in Rome proper:-) Gets back here and the public servants create daily driving havoc and she says 'just can't get their collective **** together'. Organised chaos if you will.

So, I am not willing to wear anything, perhaps you are out of touch with the general pleb that drives around in his rusted out Corolla.

Under a higher posted speed limit or (//) there is NO reason for a clapped out car driver to 'feel the need' to then drive faster, unless the driver feels so "speed-limit conditioned" that the action is involuntary. MOST drivers in the world will drive at a speed they feel comfortable at when limits are raised.

There is a time and a place for "speed", but in this country it will just be abused.

There is always a small percentage of the population that will fit this criteria, they will *always* cause trauma regardless..

Edit: not to mention the pathetic condition of our road system compare to other countries that have high limits.

Roads set to carry higher speed limits will be our higher standard roads only, as opposed to a geographical based increase. Our MOTORWAY class roads have the same key typical cross-sections as Germany's best, BUT lack a couple of key things and have certain 'errors';-
* No full length median barrier
* Some right hand exits and entries, an error.
Under such, a speed limit should not be raised. Each situation is easy to fix, and necessary.
* Our vehicles lack standard equipment levels given to people in EU market and in more enlightened places like China (2006), South Africa or Russia:-)

AUS is changing that - we have training text in the manuals, IF people actually read them. Exception VIC, ACT, QLD, NT.

Our focus is too much on 'how to get a license', thats dead easy. We do need to re-focus so folk actually learn a few things.

RTA in NSW now insist that the 120 hours includes xx hours actual night time driving.

Australia will get there, it will just take another 5 - 30 years, then we'll match the above nations state of play as it is today for them, and that is honest. Blame State and Commonwealth mismangement over the last 30 years. We employ highly trained academics who have precious little by way of 'real-life' experience in the subject matter, particularly employed experience gained from actual high speed locales like Germany or Dubai, which they then generally frown upon in any case, because they simply have no effing idea of the concept of high-speed, safe and efficient road systems. For them perhaps, its not 'socially acceptable' this freedom business -to move around.

This applies only to a few of such folk, not all - but they are key influential.

One could also take a look at "Performance Based" contracts of employed personnel, and just what that all means.

[Outbackjack]

Here is an interesting snipett...

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/01/136.asp

Talks about speed camera's and how in effective they are.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Brent

Having driven in the big isolated expanses of WA, NT and Queensland in my younger years, and more recently, in Germany on the autobahns (in a Porsche 911 Carerra S :sm_headba ) I wish I could say that 'open' speed limits as such would work here in Aus, but I just can't see it ever happening.

OK, sure, in Germany it was a hoot cracking the double tonne etc, but in the day to day driving there, what was GENUINELY refreshing was the etiquette, especially regarding lane use. The open limits work in Germany not only due to better roads etc, but its the attitude of the drivers that makes it work. Trucks use the slow lane, other cars just cruising use the middle lanes, faster cars doing 140-160 or so use the lane one out from the inside, and the very inside lane is the fast lane....and when a car comes up behind you, you damned well get out of the way, straight away! And hey, guess what, it works!

Around the cities, people generally keep to the limit and are fairly courteous. Also, the absence of tryhards in farting, wheezing clapped out cars trying to drop burnouts at the lights with the doof-doof pumping was err, somewhat obvious. Dare I say it, but the attitude was more mature and intelligent than what you see here.

In hindsight, it was quite bizarre being back on Australian roads after being in Germany. In the built up areas where its more dangerous, we duck and dive and tailgate. We accelerate harshly and brake abruptly. We race down narrow roads and weave around pedestrians. We drive fast i nwet weather. But out on the big open highways, we sit like lemmings on 100kph on roads that are engineered to handle 130kph with ease. Sure, the latter largely as a result of our fixation with speed enforecement, but when you look at what's happening, its all wrong. But then, it comes down to attitude. Can the average turkey on the road actually handle anything else?

So, when looking at the Australian experience, never mind our old cars or dodgy roads etc here. Hell, if the general populace can't even grasp the concept of "Keep Left" then really, we've got zero hope of the utopia of open limits.

To make matters worse, we have State Governments who have become addicted to rich lure of road fine revenue as a method of balancing the annual budget, all under the guise of "Speed Kills" campaigns. So, we're breeding a mindset wherein Mr & Mrs Average think that if they set the cruise control on the Magna to 100kph then they'll be nice & safe and can just turn off their brains and fall asleep. So when when their Magna and caravan leaves the road and gets wrapped around a gumtree, or spreads itself like roadkill over the front of a B-Double, everyone scratches their heads and wonders how it happened.

The average person has neither the attitude, nor the ability. General roadcraft skills have been bred out of us via apathy, ineptitude and over-government, and it'll take decades, if ever, to regain these skills and more positive attitudes. Its a sad indictment, but its the reality chaps.

Brent.

That's an excellent if depressing summary of the whole situation Brent. It will be like pushing rocks uphill.

[HOON69]

more deaths in qld that last 2-3 days

though these new laws P*SS me off,some may be enforced it'll never slow the road toll

some i agee with some i dont we all cant be happy so meh :P