The Focus is going in for surgery..

b2tf · 10-05-2005, 08:37 PM

It seems my machine is not well.

Some of you may remember that it wa shaving idling issues and it's been wanting to pull forward for a while, i can feel it straining under brakes as im driving very slowly - it just wants to go. Normally Id be fine with this but today i left it running, got out of the car and heard a godawful rattle coming from the bay, sounded very sick but still drove as per the usual.

So rather than wait and see what happens, it's going back2Ford (had to do it) ASAP. Im not too knowledgable on this kind of car so it's best to give it back to those whose job it is to convince us they do.

Hopefully at the same time I'll be able to pull a few strings and have the Zetec program loaded in in place of the standard one, the few extra kW would be nice and handy i think. Actually can someone explain to me what the differences are between Zetec and normal CL/LX engine management programs?

So anyway, will be getting it in there ASAP and will let you all know how it turns out.

Mick K. · 10-05-2005, 09:28 PM

The first thing I could think of is that 2.0 CL/LX autos are tuned for 91RON unleaded, whereas the Zetec requires 95RON.

96 vs 85 Kw @ 5500 rpm & 162Nm @4000 vs 178Nm @4500 rpm

MK

b2tf · 10-05-2005, 10:22 PM

Mick,

Im aware of the Premium Fuel requirement, this is no big issue as I use it now anyway. Im just wondering what it does differently to create the extra power?

mitch_lx · 10-05-2005, 11:10 PM

advances timing i guess. prob only get another 1kw from it. but worth it if its free

Mick K. · 10-05-2005, 11:23 PM

How about sticking it on a dyno before and after??

Mitch - there's no physical difference between the CL/LX 2.0 auto engines and the Zetec (is there?), so why wouldn't a reprogram of the ECU bring B2tF's Focus up to Zetec power & torque levels?

MK

zetec · 10-05-2005, 11:30 PM

it's pretty much nothing more than advanced timing to create 11 more kw from my understanding. The manual gets an upgraded clutch and gearbox but the autos are virtually identical. Higher quality fuel means less chance of early detonation and thus you can push the timing a bit earlier to give you a bigger downstroke (and hence better power).

Sounds to me like the Idle Control Valve or possibly the MAF. Let us know what is is wehen diagnosed!

MITCHAY · 10-05-2005, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Theoretically, maximum power and fuel economy is achieved by advancing the timing as far as possible before the engine starts to detonate or ‘ping’

Detonation can be affected by may things ie. fuel quality, octane levels, A/F ration etc.

b2tf · 11-05-2005, 01:37 PM

Thats what I was thinking all along - the Zetec Auto shoud theoretically be no different to the standard one (what ive got).
Im not actually expecting to get the entire 11kW gain but anything will do in my book, im still not sure if i can get it done but i will certainly be trying.

Zetec - could be anything at this stage but the rattling certainly sounds unhealthy, and I feel it is still using too much fuel, so hopefully both these issues will be sorted.

Teki04 · 11-05-2005, 06:49 PM

plz explain to me one thing ppl... i aint that good with engines, but what the hell is Pinging?!

zetec · 11-05-2005, 09:55 PM

http://www.type2.com/library/engineg/ping.htm

murcod · 11-05-2005, 10:01 PM

Pinging/ detonation- fuel mixture exploding rather than burning- very bad for the engine. Can be caused by numnerous things- eg timing advanced too far, using too low an octane fuel.

Teki04 · 11-05-2005, 10:26 PM

Ok, according to that website matt, says to have a low compression ratio.... fiesta has 10> to 1.... so.... does that mean it will ping? also.... i think i hear this pinging... hence why im interested....but it kinda goes away when i press the clutch in....when the car is stationery.... any suggestions on what this is? i think im over reacting though..... car goes in for service when i get my licence back....should have 12000km on it.... recommended to go every 15000km

chevaps · 11-05-2005, 11:06 PM

Nah mate, you dont hear pinging LOL. If your car "pings" you'll just feel the car and engine shudder. Its like a vibration.

Tom

Teki04 · 12-05-2005, 12:54 PM

How big is this vibration though? cause.... my car vibrates slightly....and makes an engine noise like something is rocking....so i guess its just normal engine knocking? like.... its just how the engine is yea?

zetec · 12-05-2005, 01:07 PM

If your car is factory and not modded, it is most certainly not pinging, knocking and certainly not for an extended, daily period of time. You might have loose engine mounts or something minor like that, but pinging is very serious and I HIGHLY doubt it. A Factory car will not have issues just because of the compression ratio or fuel it uses, it will only encounter these kinds of issues generally if you mess around with it (i.e. start heavily modding it). Not even an exhaust or air filter should do this to a modern engine. Pinging is a serious issue and only occurs when you really start playing with engine timing via computer chips and start playing with fuel quality. Just mention it at your service and tell them the exact symptoms, they can start from there.

MITCHAY · 12-05-2005, 04:23 PM

If it was pinging mate your car wouldnt last long after it starts so i think you can rule that out.

Teki04 · 12-05-2005, 09:13 PM

OK... i think its nothing.... ill just continue driving it....lol

cArSiK · 13-05-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevaps

Nah mate, you dont hear pinging LOL. If your car "pings" you'll just feel the car and engine shudder. Its like a vibration.

Tom

no , you hear it ping. Vibration / shudder is more from a missfire. My dads V8 ute pings on standard fuel under load all the time , but it certainly dosent vibrate when it does it.

Danny · 13-05-2005, 04:43 PM

Does pinging sound like that knocking noise that happens when you let out the clutch too fast and the car almost stalls??

Mine makes a few (albeit quieter) noises like that sometimes when i give it to it through the rev range....

cArSiK · 13-05-2005, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

Does pinging sound like that knocking noise that happens when you let out the clutch too fast and the car almost stalls??

Mine makes a few (albeit quieter) noises like that sometimes when i give it to it through the rev range....

yes , i know the sound you mean danny and its similar to that...

James

cArSiK · 13-05-2005, 04:52 PM

^ but a little quieter....

what fuel do you use?

james

murcod · 13-05-2005, 08:18 PM

You will very rarely feel pinging (unless it is extremely severe

), and it can be very hard to hear; especially if you don't know what you're listening for!!! Even small amounts can do serious damage over time.

You're most likely to get it when the engine is under load at low revs around the peak torque output point (eg climbing hills in too high a gear.) It is also more likely to occur on hot days.

If you think you've got it then try a tank of BP Ultimate 98 Octane and see if it improves (assuming your using normal or 95 unleaded?)

My Feroza suffers from detonation, it is very hard to hear. Ultimate 98 has been the best for preventing it, Mobil's equivalent didn't help as much and we don't get Optimax in SA.

b2tf · 13-05-2005, 10:57 PM

Sorry guys but can we get back on topic?

Im reasonably sure that the noise im hearing is from the belt or one of the pulleys, but im getting the whole given the once over anyway as there's a few other slight issues id like to get checked:- I dont think the adjustable headlights are working as they should (just doesnt seem to do anything?), high fuel consumption and a few other little issues.

Any ideas as to what i should tell them to look for?

Timmeh · 15-05-2005, 12:39 PM

It's pretty simple. Tell them all the symptoms, you can make suggestions but at the end of the day, they will find the problem and return the car sans sympotoms, hopefully. If you still have any after a test drive, then back it goes. They don't expect you to diagnose the issues, they are the qualified people for the job, so just tell them what's wrong and let them fix it.

Tim