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15-07-2007, 08:45 PM | #31 | |||
mezzo forte
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Geelong
Posts: 306
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Fuel_Management |
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15-07-2007, 09:01 PM | #32 | ||
mezzo forte
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Geelong
Posts: 306
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Sorry robbo missed ya last last post. GM seem to have it workin in their favour though, so it must work a bit.
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15-07-2007, 09:05 PM | #33 | ||
Kick out tha Jams
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SA
Posts: 443
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just had a read through the artical, seems to make sence, but I must say that Im a little more than skeptical on an 18% improvement in fuel economy - and doubt its compared with a farir comparison with no other variables.
ie. bench tested to run at the same RPM, accelerating at the same rate, decelerating at the same rate etc, as opposed to WOT untill it reaches a certain RPM in both modes (as the reduced displacement mode would take a bit longer to get to the same RPM and use less fuel in the process). What there reffering to as "pumping loss" is in reality the restriction created by choking the throttle, and after reading it, could see how its possible to reduce some negligable amount of resistance there when shutting off cylinders, but I again think that that will be offset by the working cylinders being put under additional stress and having detrimental effects that balance out the positives. I guess its something we'll find out more about in the future, but definiteley not a viable possibility on the falon motor as it is. Must say though, it is an interesting topic
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15-07-2007, 09:20 PM | #34 | ||
mezzo forte
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Geelong
Posts: 306
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I think they say 8% not 18%. Aything that saves fuel is good, but as you say side effects will appear.
Hypothetically if two motors, one with DOD and one without, were put through idenitcal lives (hours, throttle position, revs etc), it would be interesting to see how long the DOD motor would last compared. I guess it would wear more, due to the increased number of warm-up/cool-down cycles. Although on the contrary, less combustion in the chambers would surely prolong life. I spose we'll have to wait to find out! |
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15-07-2007, 09:27 PM | #35 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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16-07-2007, 12:38 AM | #36 | ||
Miami Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,703
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Interesting theories, but surely this should be in the pub/bar area - it's has nought to do with real life AUs.
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16-07-2007, 01:11 AM | #37 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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16-07-2007, 01:19 AM | #38 | ||
Miami Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,703
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Theoretical discussions belong in the Pub. The AU section is about discussing and sharing our cars and helping with mods, and maintenance etc.
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The Hammer: FG GTE | 376rwkw | 1/4 mile 11.793 @ 119.75mph 1.733 60' (4408lb) 1 of 60 FG MK1 335 GTEs (1 of 118 FG Mk 1 & 2 335 GTEs). Mods: Tune, HSD/ShockWorks, black GT335 19” staggered replicas with 245 & 275/35/19 Michelin Pilot sport 5s Daily: BF2 Fairmont Ghia I6 ZF, machine face GT335 19” staggered Replicas with 245s and 275s, Bilsteins & Kings FPV 335 build stats: <click here> Ford Performance Club ACT |
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16-07-2007, 01:36 AM | #39 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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we'll ust have to agree to dissagree then
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16-07-2007, 01:57 AM | #40 | |||
Miami Pilot
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,703
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Quote:
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The Hammer: FG GTE | 376rwkw | 1/4 mile 11.793 @ 119.75mph 1.733 60' (4408lb) 1 of 60 FG MK1 335 GTEs (1 of 118 FG Mk 1 & 2 335 GTEs). Mods: Tune, HSD/ShockWorks, black GT335 19” staggered replicas with 245 & 275/35/19 Michelin Pilot sport 5s Daily: BF2 Fairmont Ghia I6 ZF, machine face GT335 19” staggered Replicas with 245s and 275s, Bilsteins & Kings FPV 335 build stats: <click here> Ford Performance Club ACT |
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16-07-2007, 10:01 AM | #41 | |||
mezzo forte
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Geelong
Posts: 306
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Quote:
This thread started off in the right place but has since become a pub thread. |
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16-07-2007, 03:51 PM | #42 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
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16-07-2007, 04:14 PM | #43 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 25,942
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Quote:
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16-07-2007, 11:34 PM | #44 | |||
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenthurst
Posts: 40,403
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Quote:
Also in an auto ... the EEC puts that into LHM as well ... locks it in 3rd. Also EGAS doesn't have cylinder shut down .... just the auto goes into LHM ... temp still skyrockets though. Been there done that ... not fun in Summer heading up hills around Sydney loaded up. Should have that sorted now ... twin core radiator :
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The Current Stable 2016 SZII TS Territory RWD Petrol The Evolution of the EGA54D utes AU Workshop Build thread of EGA54D B-Series Workshop Build thread of EGA54D 2004 SX TX Territory AWD - Gone but not forgotten 2010 FG XT "The ex-rental" - Moved onto a new home Mechan1k's Flickr Page |
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17-07-2007, 11:33 AM | #45 | |||
Kick out tha Jams
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SA
Posts: 443
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Quote:
you would need to..... -kill the injector to the "dead" cylinder -kill the spark so your not wasting the energy your attempting to save trying to ignite air -either open the exhaust valve on the compression stroke, or close the intake valve on the intake stroke (possibly using the method in the above quote) to create what the wikipedia artical refers to as an "air spring" -create a way to control the timing of it all. -alternate the "dead" cylinders appropriateley so that your not causing the same cylinder/s to be continualy shutdown creating unecessary vibration or strain. the length of time that the ignition, fuel and valve status is altered for would have to be very accurate and rpm dependent. If it were me (which I can say it never will be) I would look at controling timing on injector pulses......ie.... assuming cylinders fired in the order 123456 on an I6 (which I know they dont)..... when the impulse is given to injector 1, power and ignition is killed to cylinder 2 and the valve status altered (sidenote -weather that be both valves closed or both valves open makes no real difference IMO, probably both valves closed woul save a miniscule amount of energy and prevent exhaust from going backwards into the plenum and being sucked into another cylinder so while not likeley may be the better option) injector, ignition and valve status of cylinder 2 remains altered untill cylinder 3 recieves an injector pulse and then injector 2 returns to normal operation for the next 2 cycles. next kill cylinder 5 in the same method, then 3, then 6, then 4, then 1, and then repeat from the top AFTER cylinder 2 has fired normaly again so that your not killing 2 ajacent cylinders in a row - or something similar. This method would see 4 opperational cylinders or kill 246 on 1 cycle and 123 on the second for the next cycle Now I havnt put any thought into this or paid attention to detail, and its likeley that the "dead" cylinders status would have to be killed before the preceeding injector fires, and would need to remain killed after the following injector fires, but you get the jist. Point is, id idvise anyone not to even bother contemplating the idea! Nothing is impossible, but it appears the only reason anyone would want to do this is to save money on fuel economy, but the cost and time involved with setup and exmerimentation would far outweigh any economic gains (if any) to be had. :togo:
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$416.80.......All that cash came from a new (used) car. Check your back seats! |
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17-07-2007, 12:52 PM | #46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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True robbo I wasn't saying it is easy but I was just stating it was theoretically possible on a single cam engine to get an air spring effect in reality it would be a major engineering feat
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17-07-2007, 01:53 PM | #47 | |||
Kick out tha Jams
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SA
Posts: 443
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Quote:
__________________
$416.80.......All that cash came from a new (used) car. Check your back seats! |
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21-07-2007, 12:42 AM | #48 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
624.
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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21-07-2007, 12:48 PM | #49 | |||
Kick out tha Jams
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SA
Posts: 443
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Quote:
but even still, I have no idea, so your probaly right, I was just giving random examples based on a firing sequence of 123456, the only point implied in my post was to alternate the shutdown cycle, and wasnt based on the actual firing sequence of the I6 (because I dont actualy know what actual the firing sequence is). if however (based on 123456 firing sequence) you killed in the order 153-624, you would still only net 2 dead cylinders instead of the 3 obtained by a kill secuence of 135-246 because the following would happen.... if killing in the order of 153246 miss,2,3,4,miss,6,1,2,miss,4,5,6,1,miss,3,miss,5,m iss etc this results in 6 misses over 18 intended fires (3 revolutions), which shutsdown a net of 2 cylinders per rev. if killing in the order of 246-135 1,miss,3,miss,5,miss,miss,2,miss,4,miss,6 etc this results in 6 miss's over 2 revolutions, netting 3 dead cylinders per rev. If anyone is brave enough to attempt it themselves, and has enough time and money to throw away, the finer details like this are something you should already know anyway.
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$416.80.......All that cash came from a new (used) car. Check your back seats! |
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21-07-2007, 04:57 PM | #50 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
note a 4 cycle engine only fire's once every two rotation's
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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21-07-2007, 05:24 PM | #51 | ||
Kick out tha Jams
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SA
Posts: 443
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picky picky, lol, but yeah, ^^^what he said^^^, this threads dead anyway, and nobodys gonna be dumb enough to try it.
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$416.80.......All that cash came from a new (used) car. Check your back seats! |
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21-07-2007, 05:30 PM | #52 | ||||
AFF's 1st DM.......
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Quote:
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FORD GIVING POWER TO THE PEOPLE Alloy headed 347ci EDXR8 13.21 @107.7mph Quote:
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21-07-2007, 08:30 PM | #53 | ||
Ute Forum Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melb
Posts: 7,227
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Sorry for jumping in late, but I think there could be a small economy gain to be had. I think it has been said the Failsafe Cooling cycles the cylinders that don't fire. Even though there would still be a compression stroke, a reasonable amount (less heat generated by the air being compressed) would be returned. As the cylinder shutdown cycles around the impact on the balance could be minimised so long as the sequencing was done correctly - I imagine the one Ford uses would be a good place to start.
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