Speed

[SB076]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Most Autobahns have speed limits of 120-130. Its only very select sections that are open.

Drink driving seems fairly out there too. i remember seat belts being a big thing, and leaving dogs and kids in cars on hot days. People focus on what concerns them, youre no different to the so called speed wowsers you complain about. It isnt simply speed they target, its just thats the only time YOU notice. Can you see the irony of that? Sure, they are hard on it, as they should be along with any other breach of law. I agree targeting p platers is unfair, but they do bring it on themselves.

I think there are some Aust. roads that could have speed limits increased to 120 - 130 (as with other countries around the world) As for // I havent driven in the outback so cant make comment on that - however given the large area, I am happy for people in the outback to travel at // on certain roads.

As for the rest of your comments, I dont think drink driving is policed anywhere near as much as speeding. The reason being $$$, one camera in one hour will make more $$$ than a booze bus in a night (presuming the booze bus picks up 15 or so people - which typically makes the news) As for other road laws, they get very little attention IMO. You can drive with out indicating, you can tail gate etc chances are you wont get a ticket - it would be interesting to see the number of speeding infrigements issued compared to the number of other road related infrigements issued.

I have read Fantomes comments and think that is a tragic event that no one should go through - however I also believe that if everyone did the posted speed limit that would not eliminate or even greatly reduce the number of these events (granted there would be a reduction) I also beleive that if the posted speed limits were increased on certain roads there would not be an increase in these events. It would be great if the powers to be produced actual figures that showed the actual cause of these events

[colossus]

Why are parts of the M4 90km/h, why is the M2 currently 70km/h? Why is the brand new M7 90km/h in parts??? I can comfortably sit on 140km/h on any of these roads.

Why is nothing done to change this - because people have all become conditioned sheep and the attitude "you broke the law cop it on the chin" has become the norm. Lefties...sigh

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by SB076

I think there are some Aust. roads that could have speed limits increased to 120 - 130 (as with other countries around the world) As for // I havent driven in the outback so cant make comment on that - however given the large area, I am happy for people in the outback to travel at // on certain roads.
Not with our roads. they need major overhauls. The design is all wrong. Yeah, the surface can keep you on the road at speed, but what about keeping traffic apart if something goes awry, just for starters. How many lanes are there where an Autobahn has open limits? Who funds it for us??, our population is tiny with a massive area to maintain. This is Australia, a massive area of land, not Germany. People complain now about the governments need to raise money by cameras. Youre not going to like the bill for the Aussiebahn
As for the rest of your comments, I dont think drink driving is policed anywhere near as much as speeding. The reason being $$$, one camera in one hour will make more $$$ than a booze bus in a night (presuming the booze bus picks up 15 or so people - which typically makes the news) As for other road laws, they get very little attention IMO. You can drive with out indicating, you can tail gate etc chances are you wont get a ticket - it would be interesting to see the number of speeding infrigements issued compared to the number of other road related infrigements issued.
I see RBT's often enough. The police in cars have other areas of law enforcement to police too. How about campaigning for higher police numbers first?
I have read Fantomes comments and think that is a tragic event that no one should go through - however I also believe that if everyone did the posted speed limit that would not eliminate or even greatly reduce the number of these events (granted there would be a reduction) I also beleive that if the posted speed limits were increased on certain roads there would not be an increase in these events. It would be great if the powers to be produced actual figures that showed the actual cause of these events

Sorry, we seem to be on different pages. Im not against an increase in speed limits, where safe to do so. Im against whiners complaining when the law is enforced. Ive said I dont agree with cameras, not because they catch people, but because i dont believe in penalising people based on inaccurate devices.

I have little to no sympathy for youngins who have no clue and expect to be in your face, and not be noticed negatively. As I said in this or another thread, how often do you see these 'hoons' outside court acting like Chopper Reid? Clownpockets.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by colossus

Why are parts of the M4 90km/h, why is the M2 currently 70km/h? Why is the brand new M7 90km/h in parts??? I can comfortably sit on 140km/h on any of these roads.

Why is nothing done to change this - because people have all become conditioned sheep and the attitude "you broke the law cop it on the chin" has become the norm. Lefties...sigh

Add onto that the bangor bypass. Speed limit is 80km/hr. That's just too slow! It could easily be 100 between the big bridge and the turnoff from alfords point road (or is that illawara road? I dunno)

Oh, and the new 50 km/hr limit at heathcote. Its 6 lanes for God's sake! Going south, in the space of a few km, the limit goes from 70->50->100->80->110. Going North its 110->80->100->70->50->70. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The cops love it as well!

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Add onto that the bangor bypass. Speed limit is 80km/hr. That's just too slow! It could easily be 100 between the big bridge and the turnoff from alfords point road (or is that illawara road? I dunno)

Oh, and the new 50 km/hr limit at heathcote. Its 6 lanes for God's sake! Going south, in the space of a few km, the limit goes from 70->50->100->80->110. Going North its 110->80->100->70->50->70. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The cops love it as well!

Duplicate entry

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Add onto that the bangor bypass. Speed limit is 80km/hr. That's just too slow! It could easily be 100 between the big bridge and the turnoff from alfords point road (or is that illawara road? I dunno)

Oh, and the new 50 km/hr limit at heathcote. Its 6 lanes for God's sake! Going south, in the space of a few km, the limit goes from 70->50->100->80->110. Going North its 110->80->100->70->50->70. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The cops love it as well!

Hey guys! Go easy!

Morris Iemma (not a forum memeber) has asked me to let you know that he needs the dough.....to employ more people to keep him in power.

Don't worry about hospitals, schools or roads. They don't count.

The only thing that counts is the 30 second grab on tonights commercial TV which all the morons watch. And it helps them vote.

He knows it. So does rudd the dud. And don't talk top me about that idiot Brown the clown.

Morris' advice? Just keep driving like you do Ford drivers, pay the fines and he can stay in power.

Which he would really like as after 9 years the superannuation package is awesome.........suckers.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Sorry, we seem to be on different pages. Im not against an increase in speed limits, where safe to do so. Im against whiners complaining when the law is enforced. Ive said I dont agree with cameras, not because they catch people, but because i dont believe in penalising people based on inaccurate devices.

I have little to no sympathy for youngins who have no clue and expect to be in your face, and not be noticed negatively. As I said in this or another thread, how often do you see these 'hoons' outside court acting like Chopper Reid? Clownpockets.

Would love to have an aussiebahn, but dont want to pay for it (although I think the tax on petrol should pay for an improvement to some roads that would allow an increase in the posted speed limit. Happy to have a greater police presence on the road - hopefully it will deter people from doing stupid things - which will hopefully reduce the road toll. I am happy for the law to be enforced but as you said, but I am against cameras - especially with 3k's tolerance and when not used/setup in a black spot - why are they always on the straightest section of road on a slight downhill?

[EBII Fairmont]

The biggest issue I believe is not speed, but driver stupidity.

I had my EB written off three weeks ago due to some moron. As I drove straight along the road, he tried to turn right into a street cutting my path. The rest is history. What shits me, is there are a set of lights roughly 100m up the road. When the lights are red, the traffic banks up and makes it safe to do the right hand turn with out risk, due to it being a keep clear zone. So this idiot not knowing if there is anyone coming tried to make it through the corner.

While I waited for a tow truck to arrive to collect my car, two more accidents happened. These resulted from idiots looking to see the damage instead of what the person in front was actually doing.

Why not educate drivers from the very beginning on how to actually drive. Adapt to the different road conditions, instead of going by the speed limit while everyone else is doing 10km less. It feels like the government doesn't really care about drivers dieing on the road. If they did they would pull there heads in and really look at the problem.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by SB076

... but I am against cameras - especially with 3k's tolerance and when not used/setup in a black spot - why are they always on the straightest section of road on a slight downhill?

Ive answered that too. In Victoria, its because they let Kennett sell everything that made money. Strangely enough, Victorians forgot the costs of government are ongoing but the idea of not seeing government employees leaning on shovels was just too damn appealing. Now the state itself just doesnt have a job to fund its bills. Consider the cameras your dole payment to the state of Victoria.

How much cheaper is Gas and Electricity in Victoria now? I hope its lots.

In other states, Ill bet its much the same scenario. No income for governments other than tax and fines etc. Seems financially smarter for individuals to allow them to run one or two key utilities and use those profits. But of course anything can be done more efficiently privately, the profits wont benefit you, but hey, no more leaning on shovels, its a good thing right?

[SB076]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Ive answered that too. In Victoria, its because they let Kennett sell everything that made money. Strangely enough, Victorians forgot the costs of government are ongoing but the idea of not seeing government employees leaning on shovels was just too damn appealing. Now the state itself just doesnt have a job to fund its bills. Consider the cameras your dole payment to the state of Victoria.

How much cheaper is Gas and Electricity in Vctoria now? I hope its lots.

Kennet had to sell everything because Cain/Kirner spent everything and lost our credit rating. Thats the problem with Pollies they only look at what needs to be done to get re-elected they dont plan for 10 - 20 years time, because they know they wont be around. - But anyway thats off topic

I agree with EBII comments - driver education and teaching people to drive in all cirumstances and even make it mandatory to attend advanced drivers courses before obtaining a license would go a long way to improve the road toll.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by SB076

Kennet had to sell everything because Cain/Kirner spent everything and lost our credit rating. Thats the problem with Pollies they only look at what needs to be done to get re-elected they dont plan for 10 - 20 years time, because they know they wont be around. - But anyway thats off topic
Hey I didnt say Labor would be any better. Kennett is just the one who did it. But you cant blame Cain/Kerr alone either. Each government inherits a lot of straws from previous governments and the habit is nationwide, Telstra anyone? Privatisation was the buzzword of the late 80's early 90's. They can only do it if the people let em though. A different plan of attack would not necessitate the use of cameras and other taxes in its place for the rest of time. What plan? Without looking at everything in their books, its speculation. Long term, keeping some of the income producing assets seems wiser. Im just saying, road use isnt the only area the nation needs to wise up, problems extend beyond the obvious.
I agree with EBII comments - driver education and teaching people to drive in all cirumstances and even make it mandatory to attend advanced drivers courses before obtaining a license would go a long way to improve the road toll.

Couldnt hurt.

[FORD3V]

Originally Posted by Munroman

Hey guys! Go easy!

Morris Iemma (not a forum memeber) has asked me to let you know that he needs the dough.....to employ more people to keep him in power.

Don't worry about hospitals, schools or roads. They don't count.

The only thing that counts is the 30 second grab on tonights commercial TV which all the morons watch. And it helps them vote.

He knows it. So does rudd the dud. And don't talk top me about that idiot Brown the clown.

Morris' advice? Just keep driving like you do Ford drivers, pay the fines and he can stay in power.

Which he would really like as after 9 years the superannuation package is awesome.........suckers.

While were politician bashing maybe ask john howard what he thinks about public education and hospitals,he's forgoten he was educated at a public school and that 70% of australian children go to public schools as he hands out 70% of federal funding to private schools.

Back on topic,

Speed is an interesting subject that wont go away mainly because people continue to do it, because they believe that they are above the law and that it is perfectly safe to go as fast as they feel like regardless of the situation.

It doesnt matter how many experts come out and tell us quite the contrary,it doesnt matter how many people are killed as a result of it, people continue to do it and most people who do it will continue to do it until they are directly affected by it,until then they will continue to believe that they are invincible and that the correct speed to be travelling at is one that they decide is safe.

Every thread relating to speed limits or fines is full of posts by "experts" who genuinely believe that speeding is perfectly safe and doesnt increase the chance of having an accident or increase the severity of an accident if one does occur.

I realy am baffled by peoples attitudes.

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Oh, and the new 50 km/hr limit at heathcote. Its 6 lanes for God's sake! Going south, in the space of a few km, the limit goes from 70->50->100->80->110. Going North its 110->80->100->70->50->70. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The cops love it as well!

I know exactly the places you mean, I travel it a few times weekly. It happened as a kneejerk reaction because a 13yo jaywalker got run over, a Shire-style mob reaction ensued.

[BFXR8Silhouette]

I have 2 cars. A 97 turbo diesel Rodeo (top speed 130ish), and a 2006 XR8(top speed 200+). My girlfriend has a 93 Excel (top speed 140ish?). Stopping distance from 100km/h. Rodeo - about 10km. Excel - about 1km. Falcon - much less than that. The speed limit is the same regardless of which car I'm in.

If I am going to have a crash I would much rather it be in my Falcon (which has front and side airbags) than either of the other 2. And because of the suspension, brakes, and my love for that car, I'm much more likely to have an accident in one of the others.

My point is A big part of stopping people killing themselves would be to get rid of all the cr@p and dare I say it 'old' cars on the road today. I dont know what it's like over east, but here in WA once a car is registered as long as you pay your bills you dont have to worry about the condition of it (unless you go to a motorsport event in which case you will more than likely get a yellow sticker because your front bumper has a stone chip in it, or something equally as ridiculous. I'm done now.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by 351ciofgrunt

My point about technology and going fast is that FPV, HSV etc would not have the awesome brakes and well sorted suspension that they have if they were intended to never go over 100kms.

Disagree with this point for 2 reasons:-

1st is that I think what youre trying to say is that if people weren't going fast on the roads the technology wouldnt be needed therefore it wouldnt exist. Look at V8SC for example - legal, off street racing where the whole idea is to go as fast as you damn well can - and yes, you do need to be able to stop/brake/steer/turn/handle it well - hence technology is developed and then filters down to passenger cars.

2nd point - following your theory, we would all still be using drum brakes, have no such thing as DSC, ABS or ESP etc etc - why, well because if we're not going fast we dont need to develop that technology. Do you see the issue with this? That, and your latest BF is a fair bit different to say, an XF, hence technological advance is neccesary. Not just in terms of how fast it can go either - think about how much distance it needs to pull up, how traction control helps it etc etc.

So yes, I go fast in my ute - but I have ABS, 4 piston brakes, 330mm discs, good tyres, good shocks and suspension etc - and I will pick that ANY DAY over your standard spec gear. Why? Because at ANY speed it will outbreak, outhandle and outsteer the taxi spec stuff.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Im not saying I agree with current limits on many roads, I like 50 in built up estate type streets though. I used to play cricket on the road, it was safe to do so, rubbish bin for wickets, kick to kick, I wish my kid could do the same. ?

Just on this one though fmc351 ..... By what you are saying shouldnt it be the other way around though? When I was doing this, speed limits were nearly non existent but we managed to kick the footy and move the bins when a car went past. Now speed controls, ie speed humps etc, 50 km/h limmits, 40kms around schools, should be safe as houses now? I do agree with the 50km zones but they these are not enforced and as there is no money in it for the g'ment.



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[fmc351]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Just on this one though fmc351 ..... By what you are saying shouldnt it be the other way around though? When I was doing this, speed limits were nearly non existent but we managed to kick the footy and move the bins when a car went past. Now speed controls, ie speed humps etc, 50 km/h limmits, 40kms around schools, should be safe as houses now? I do agree with the 50km zones but they these are not enforced and as there is no money in it for the g'ment.

Id hesitate a guess at it being the number of hi-po and hi-po looking cars on the road maybe, even the modern riced shopping trolley goes quick enough. I dont why its true, but I wont let my kid play cricket in the street because of the amount of times I hear and see clowns hoofing it round the burbs. Maybe its the showbag mentality, "hey look at me" pffft doof doof...

True on enforcement. It will only be enforced when investigating a tragedy, after the fact.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Id hesitate a guess at it being the number of hi-po and hi-po looking cars on the road maybe, even the modern riced shopping trolley goes quick enough. I dont why its true, but I wont let my kid play cricket in the street because of the amount of times I hear and see clowns hoofing it round the burbs. Maybe its the showbag mentality, "hey look at me" pffft doof doof...

True on enforcement. It will only be enforced when investigating a tragedy, after the fact.

And I for one would absolutley endorse any speed camera in any suburban side street and agree with the 50 k rule in most streets ...... especially ours. The 40 k zones though 'near' schools has gone stupid.



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[fmc351]

Originally Posted by auslandau

And I for one would absolutley endorse any speed camera in any suburban side street and agree with the 50 k rule in most streets ...... especially ours. The 40 k zones though 'near' schools has gone stupid.

Its only what? 100 mts, it wont kill ya. Ive never had a problem with em.

[351ciofgrunt]

Originally Posted by b2tf

2nd point - following your theory, we would all still be using drum brakes, have no such thing as DSC, ABS or ESP etc etc

.

No following my theory, we have the brakes and suspension technology so the speed limits should be raised from the time when we had drum brakes. You missed my point, I dont want to go back to drum brakes, I want higher speed limits because we dont have drum brakes anymore.

[red_hotxr6]

[QUOTE=351ciofgrunt]Its funny how everyone is against speeding these days when its speeding that has got us to where technology is today.[/QUOT


Speeding might have got us here today but it was done in an controlled enviroment, people today want to misuse that technology where there are road rules are in place to ensure our safety and well being, not to just go crazy and mis use it.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Its only what? 100 mts, it wont kill ya. Ive never had a problem with em.

You're in QLD? Not 100 mtres here. North Road Clayton. 80km's to 40km's on a 3 lane road in a split second with some doing 40 some still doing 80kms ..... oh it makes for great, safe & interesting driving. Same goes for Boronia Road which is 2 lanes wide, from 70 to 40 in a split second. With a lot of free flowing traffic around, proper lights at crossings and the school not even on this road its mayhem!



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[colossus]

Kids shouldn't be on roads, playing or otherwise. Yep lets drop the speed limits and put camera's in because parents no longer want to take responsibility and just generally well suck at parenting. Meanwhile everyone will use more fuel and take longer to get where they are going. Well done guys.

[fivepointseven]

Originally Posted by colossus

Kids shouldn't be on roads, playing or otherwise. Yep lets drop the speed limits and put camera's in because parents no longer want to take responsibility and just generally well suck at parenting. Meanwhile everyone will use more fuel and take longer to get where they are going. Well done guys.

Exactly right, most (if not all) of the accountability should be on the parents and even the kids themselves. We shouldn't be making changes to road rules to compensate for other people not wanting to take responsibilty for looking after their kids. All these changes slow us down in an already congested traffic system, which just adds to the frustration (and road rage incidents) of driving a car. I know many times I've slowed to 40 km/h in a school zone, only to be passed by half a dozen cars still doing 70. I get stuck behind these morons and then may even get held up making it through the green at the next lights.......it pi$$es me off ! !

[Fantome]

Originally Posted by colossus

Kids shouldn't be on roads, playing or otherwise. Yep lets drop the speed limits and put camera's in because parents no longer want to take responsibility and just generally well suck at parenting. Meanwhile everyone will use more fuel and take longer to get where they are going. Well done guys.

Why shouldn't kids be on roads? They have just as much right to use the roads as anyone else. I don't advocate them playing cricket etc on the road but they still have to cross the road or ride their bikes safely. As the adults in our communities, it's up to us to keep our kids safe. When I was a kid we all walked to school and only the privileged elite were driven. Nowadays we drive our kids to school because we want to keep them safe from all the "undesirables" that inhabit our world. As a result the traffic around schools has increased dramatically. I live in a country town that has not really had much of a population increase in the last 25 years, yet the traffic at the local high school has at least quadrupled. With school buses, students on 'P' plates , parents in cars, kids on bikes and the pedestrian traffic the potential for an accident to happen is incredible. So what if you have to slow down to 40km? I'm glad that the government is imposing on us what we should have the common sense to impose ourselves. When you have to slow down to allow some kid to cross the road just be hopeful that someone will do the same for your kid.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Fantome

Why shouldn't kids be on roads? They have just as much right to use the roads as anyone else. I don't advocate them playing cricket etc on the road but they still have to cross the road or ride their bikes safely. As the adults in our communities, it's up to us to keep our kids safe. When I was a kid we all walked to school and only the privileged elite were driven. Nowadays we drive our kids to school because we want to keep them safe from all the "undesirables" that inhabit our world. As a result the traffic around schools has increased dramatically. I live in a country town that has not really had much of a population increase in the last 25 years, yet the traffic at the local high school has at least quadrupled. With school buses, students on 'P' plates , parents in cars, kids on bikes and the pedestrian traffic the potential for an accident to happen is incredible. So what if you have to slow down to 40km? I'm glad that the government is imposing on us what we should have the common sense to impose ourselves. When you have to slow down to allow some kid to cross the road just be hopeful that someone will do the same for your kid.

But but but, precious seconds pass, and Im late. I have more rights than those children. Ive been paying $17.68 a week in taxes for 8 months so its my road and my car and no-one tells me how to use it. Blah blah blah, I can handle the speed, and know what Im doing. I even put the bald tyres on the back. I can drive inside school corridors at 120 without ever hitting a locker. blah blah. Ive talked on teh mobile while eating a bag of chips steering with my knee at mach 2 in the Maccas drive thru while changing CD"s, never had a problem.

I mean come on, the brake pedal, its all the way over there.