TRD Aurion bites the dust! - Page 4

hy_boi · 21-09-2007, 03:25 PM

And as above, a V6 corolla to the line up, very nice....

Bossxr8 · 22-09-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRDRIFT

OK, anyone who is bagging out Toyotas needs thier head re examined. Toyota for one, is almost the biggest car manufacturer in the world, over yes FORD and GMH. And they wont be by accident, they have a great product.

Go back a decade, the RZ twin turbo Supra, its 2JZ can produce with standard internals over 1000hp, and almost be reliable. The almighty 1.6ltr 4AGE in our 1986-1994 powered SX corollas, unbreakable and not to mention the 4AGZE supercharged versions which came standard with forged pistons.

But what have Toyota built lately thats any good. They dropped all the good stuff to make boring shopping trolleys. No point bringing up what they made in the past because they make nothing like that now.

Bossxr8 · 22-09-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSSII

Toyota are very performance oriented. How else do you explain 6 bolt mains on lexus V8 engines.

The 6 bolt mains on the Lexus engine had nothing to do with performance, they were put in to increase the stiffness of the whole bottom end assembly to reduce vibration which added to the smooth operation it was renown for. Extra strength was just a bonus. Its the same reason Ford added side bolts into the sump on the AU, to increase stiffness to reduce NVH.

Bossxr8 · 22-09-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hy_boi

Thats incorrect, we're just been given service advisory on the car, electronic rev limter has failed...thats all i can say

Spoke to my mate who works at Toyota, seems the car was being tested when it was dropped into neutral at high revs. With the load taken off the engine it revved up hard and the engine blew. The rev limiter even couldn't stop it or it doesn't work in neutral. Seems a bit odd but he saw the whole thing and reckons that was what it was.

outback_ute · 22-09-2007, 11:17 AM

Ok, so far its less of an issue than the Typhoon clutch then... I think its a bit early to be trumpeting the end of the TRD Aurion.

**FTE217** · 22-09-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Ok, so far its less of an issue than the Typhoon clutch then... I think its a bit early to be trumpeting the end of the TRD Aurion.

Spot on !!
Compared to FPV/HSV this is a blimp in the ocean for Toyota.
How many 1st build models have issues ? Plenty as you all know, they will sort it and they have a large customer base to feed off.
There are many ppl I know want something similar to Aurions without the bogans trail which follow the other 2 brands above.

I think its great another manufacturer is trying to gain performance business in Oz.

mainyard · 22-09-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envi XR8

you can mention those but......

Lexcen was a rebadged Commodore. As I understand it, Toyota got to use the commodore as a base for a large family RWD sedan which they did not have a model in their own range, in return for development work on the Buick V6 that was fitted to the VP and later models of the Commodore, ie; the Ecotech engines.

Avalon was released if I remember correctly because there was some talk of Toyota joining V8 Supercars, where they would need a large car as a base, as the Lexcen had been ditched. From what I can gather the Avalon was not sold in Japan. What killed it was the usual issue. People are wary of buying a front wheel drive car that has the capacity to tow. RWD cars are preferred by Joe Public generally.

Aurion has big potential. It's V6 pumps out more power than the Falcon or Commodore equilivants. It has Japanese build and finish quality, and they would be fairly economical and reliable. Seeing that the car has not been on the market for that long, it is difficult to say it has been a flop. There are plenty of them on the roads, even the 4 cylinder Camry isn't a bad car. If it doesn't eventually sell well, it may be a flop by Toyota's standards, but to Holden and Ford it would have been a success!

As for making small dull cars for the masses. Those small dull cars are going to put our fuel drinking large cars off the road eventually. I'm not sure either that a Sportive Corolla Levin is that dull actually?? Even the older models get up and go.

Dare I mention the Supra, Celica, AE86 Sprinter also? I would not have labelled these cars as dull. "Quite lively" comes to mind.

cheers
Envi

yeh it might pump out more power, but how much higher in the rev range and much lower torque at higher revs as i do believe for the stock engine it is 200kW @ 6200rpm and 336nm @ 4700rpm vs the FORDs 190kw @ 5250 and 383nm @ only 2500rpm. now please you tell me which one is gonna be the better engine? the ford has great economy now comparable with the aurion, the ford has the best 6spd auto in australia, the engine is torquey and smooth, reliable, parts are available at the second you need them, labour is cheap, and they can be dressed up to look great. V6s may be better for fitting them in small engine bays, but imo nothing will ever beat a straight 6. look at BMW do you think they would still have straight 6s if they were crap?
ive ridden in a couple of aurions, both sporty and base models, and to be honest i thought the ride quality was crap compared to a 2000 falcon wagon!!
Ive nothing against Toyota and yes those earlier models were great, but why buy something out of the country when you can buy a freaking great car made by aussies?

mainyard · 22-09-2007, 01:15 PM

sorry forgot to add, the trd aurion produces 241kw@6400 rpm and 400nm@ 4000rpm. the xr6 turbo produces 245kw @ 5250 rpm and 480Nm @ 2000-3500rpm

the xr6 turbo costs less as well.

Barry_v · 22-09-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

why buy something out of the country when you can buy a freaking great car made by aussies?

get a clue.

Kenster · 22-09-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

why buy something out of the country when you can buy a freaking great car made by aussies?

Could i correct you that Toyota is manufactor in Australia Melbourne Avalon. Alot of Toyota cars and head office are all in Australia, I know a family friend who work at Avalon plant. Also the fact Holden is build in China but only assemple in Australia Perth that about it.

Envi XR8 · 22-09-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

yeh it might pump out more power, but how much higher in the rev range and much lower torque at higher revs as i do believe for the stock engine it is 200kW @ 6200rpm and 336nm @ 4700rpm vs the FORDs 190kw @ 5250 and 383nm @ only 2500rpm. now please you tell me which one is gonna be the better engine?

that is an open ended question and depends greatly on function, purpose and passion for brand. If I towing a caravan, I would go with the Falcon. If I wanted something to use as a family hack and was not a Ford nut I would look at a Camry/Aurion. I am a Ford nut, so I would always take a Falcon regardless. I don;t drive at 6200rpm or 5250rpm for that matter.
The straight 6 is always going to make more torque and rev lower by nature of the design, although don;t tell the Nissan gurus that!

The V6 on the other hand revs more willingly and higher due to a shorter crank with less flex etc. and therefore can make it's maxium power at a higher RPM. It is also smaller in capacity. You have to consider also that while we were leaning heavily on US influence the Japanese developed technology for their engines base on RPM. They were ditching pushrods and rocker arms in the late '60s on small engines that produced good power. My question to you is what are you going to do when the Orion gets a V6 in 2010? Buy another brand that still makes a straight six so that you don't have to rev it another 950 RPM to make peak power?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

the ford has great economy now comparable with the aurion, the ford has the best 6spd auto in australia, the engine is torquey and smooth, reliable, parts are available at the second you need them, labour is cheap, and they can be dressed up to look great.

I'm not sure that the falcon is renowned for it's fuel economy, in fact it is generally precieved that the Ford 6s have always been a little thristier than others. Having said that it is much better, and no coming in line with it's competitors. As far as I an concerned though, on the occasions when I have had a 6 cylinder N/A it chewed nearly as much fuel as my 5.4 Boss! so I am not sure that economical is a term I would use, especially when the comparing to the likes of Toyota. Yes the 6Sp auto is the best in the country. No arguements there and when used is probably a huge contributor to your statement about comparible fuel economy. As for parts availablilty, that was an issue in 1967, but in this day and age you can order an import engine part for most Japanese makes and they can be in country within a week, let alone a part that is used on an Australian issued car. A mate ordered a genuine water pump for his 4AGEZE on a Saturday morning. It was here by the Thursday, he had it the next day. No big deal there. Labour rates are the same whether you mechanic works on a Toyota or Ford. True, things like spark plug changes for front wheel drive V6 engines are pain, but with platinum plugs, not such a big issue either. Are there workshops that quote on a job and then say, "ah, sorry I have to charge you the 'Toyota Surcharge'!" Not that I am aware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

V6s may be better for fitting them in small engine bays, but imo nothing will ever beat a straight 6. look at BMW do you think they would still have straight 6s if they were crap?

Probably one of the main features of the V6 was that it could be mounted east-west, so that manfacturing of body shels could be universal, instead of having a RWD and FWD body shell. I'm not saying that a inline 6 is a $h!tbox. Far from it. I have owned plenty of them and I like them for the reasons you stated above about being torquey etc. but my point is that the Aurion V6 makes more power than either the dunnydore or Falcon, and THAT is the one fct that Joe Public acssociates with. They see the ads, and think "more power = better car". BMW has stuck with their straight six yes, but they also had a comprehensive 4 cylinder development program to feature in the various categories of European racing. Their 6 cylinder development is based on similiar characteristics in that they utilise a small capacity hard reving engine, from memory either 3 or 3.6 litre only. They haul a$$ too! A friend has an M36 (I think) racing in Improved Production Cars. It is an Ex-BMW Works car and is an awesome piece of gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

ive ridden in a couple of aurions, both sporty and base models, and to be honest i thought the ride quality was crap compared to a 2000 falcon wagon!!

WHAT!! you have to be kidding. I have driven a 2003 wagon and it nearly made me seasick! I'm sorry but this statement comes across to me as a statement of passion rather than fact. Either that or your opinion of a good ride is somewhat different to mine. I don't consider excessive body roll and movement on the road as a quality ride. I have been in a Camry, 4 cyl Sportivo, and found it a comfortable and good ride, and on par or better than a standard BA Futura and miles ahead of a BA Forte wagon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

Ive nothing against Toyota and yes those earlier models were great, but why buy something out of the country when you can buy a freaking great car made by aussies?

I am not saying to buy an Aurion. I am simply saying that Toyota is a dark horse. They will learn quickly from any mistakes that are made and their very first attempt to capture a portion of the performance market in this country is a potent package that will have the ability in time to take sales from GMH and Ford. I was making the point that because of one failure, don't expect Toyota to pack up their bat and ball and go home. If they are determinied to win a portion of the market, they will be prepared to take some knocks. They will also be prepared to be pro-active and make changes and continue to try and improve. As has been stated here many times, Ford's various FPV specials are continually bagged here as being nothing more than different stripe and sticker packages with little or no real steps forward. Toyota will not make the same error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainyard

sorry forgot to add, the trd aurion produces 241kw@6400 rpm and 400nm@ 4000rpm. the xr6 turbo produces 245kw @ 5250 rpm and 480Nm @ 2000-3500rpm

the xr6 turbo costs less as well.

The XR6T and F6 are great steps forward, and are great cars, absolutely no arguement from me. They will in time be cult cars. The F6 is the best current Australian muscle car, bar none, and I am a V8 man by nature but you have appreciate anything that turns the numbers, has the runs on the board and realises it's potential, and the Aurion will eventually.

Barry_v · 22-09-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenster

Also the fact Holden is build in China but only assemple in Australia Perth that about it.

we need a carpet bombing of clues for this thread ASAP.

Kenster · 22-09-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

we need a carpet bombing of clues for this thread ASAP.

hey! i thought i might as well add to this thread while abit of the discussion about where most car are manufactor

Sourbastard · 22-09-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

we need a carpet bombing of clues for this thread ASAP.

Daewoo is actually built in antartica in secret alien bases, shipped to holdens in "perth"(Adelaide is secretly known as Perth to those in the know) to be rebadged and then sent to korea where they turned into chicken coups.

Sourbastard · 22-09-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenster

hey! i thought i might as well add to this thread while abit of the discussion about where most car are manufactor

Im guessing that GIANT GOD DAMNED HOLDEN FACTORY in adelaide was stealthed out at the time your spy satellite passed over on its way to perth?

mainyard · 22-09-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenster

Could i correct you that Toyota is manufactor in Australia Melbourne Avalon. Alot of Toyota cars and head office are all in Australia, I know a family friend who work at Avalon plant. Also the fact Holden is build in China but only assemple in Australia Perth that about it.

Please accept my apologies, I posted that last message too quickly without being specific enough.

mainyard · 22-09-2007, 04:06 PM

In response to envixr8. I should have said that the torque spreads are massively different in a large favor towards the ford, and my economy was based on wheels magazine on road testing and a bit of personal experience. My experience of the aurions almost made me sick! I found them to be way to stiff and jumpy on other than perfect grades of road, I don't doubt for a second that the aurion can be driven harder with more control, but i still would rather ride in that falcon then a stiff aurion. (I am a ford fan, but I realize that other cars are better)
I was using the BMW argument as a reason to keep straight engines, not to argue the high revving point. Something tells me that the barra engine can rev a hell of a lot harder then the modest limiter FORD puts on it.

I do think the aurion will have some success, but with trends heading towards smaller cars (which btw seem to be getting bigger every generation) it just seems like a strange time to market a brand new large car. Heres to the rebound of that trend.