Dual Fuel = Hell No!!!!!

XCSEDAN · 07-12-2007, 07:50 PM

well, what can i say, i will NEVER put a car on dual fuel, not after what i have seen earlier this evening.

Excuse all the spelling mistakes as i rote this in a bit of a rush.

i was working on a WB (its a mates car NOT MINE) and i heard a series of bangs, which initially i thought were the sounds of a truck dumping a load of fill across the road (they had mentioned something about going to put more fill in), it was bloody loud, the stands shook a little with the first bang, the second and third were quieter but still loud (they may have just been valley echoes????).

anyway about 45mins later, my mate leaves with his WB and almost as soon as i pack up the last of the tools, i get a phone call "man get on your moto and come up to the top of the street" so up i go, riding like normal, and i see a cop car up the top of my street, reefed on the anchors and parked in a neighbours driveway (i live on 20acres and there is 5 houses on my road wich is about 1km long and its all dirt so its not like i live in saburbia or anything).

as i walk up the rest of the way (bout 100m) i can smell something has been burnt... fire trucks and police were up there etc, i get to the top of my road and see a VS/R ute burnt out, the car is STUFFED.

i see a couple of blokes standing around so i go up and ask what happend. turned out he was flicking inbetween petrol and gas (he had to do it a few times because the car kept stalling) as he had just filled both tanks up and the bloody thing backfired and just went up in flames. the guys in the ute jumped out and tried to put the flames out with a fire extinguisher with no luck, car ended up 3/4 burning to the ground before fire trucks (which are stationed 100-150m away) managed to put the flames out.

i have never been a fan of gas or dual fuel and this is what has always scared me, now i have seen the results of what happens when they go up in flames, im DEFINATLY not putting my car on gas, screw the amount of money use save with fuel costs, burning a car to the ground (dunno what these utes are worth, but it has SS written on the side so i would assume $7,000+???), and been lucky to walk away.

worth it for an extra couple of bucks? i think not.

by the way, the driver and passenger were ok, though the driver has some minor burns from trying to put the flames out (very minor).

LTDHO · 07-12-2007, 08:26 PM

So only cars on LPG burn?

If anything more cars burn to the ground ON Petrol only as LPG takes are better sealed.

Interceptor · 07-12-2007, 08:35 PM

who the hell buys the performance model and then puts it on BBQ fuel?

castek · 07-12-2007, 08:41 PM

my mates XF got burnt down to the ground. it was dual fuel, but was only running on petrol at the time.
backfire, set flame to the airfilter, and see ya later XF Ghia.

Werd. · 07-12-2007, 08:58 PM

Reminds me of the article in a newpaper a while back..

"I was just leaving the Bi-Lo carpark when i could smell a strong smell of gas. I lit up a ciggarette and don't remember much after that. Fire brigade were only around the corner" etc.....

**gregaust** · 07-12-2007, 09:00 PM

It is a lot of times poor maintenance that leads to trouble. Cars run on LPG all the time and fuel system dries out. Swap to petrol ,leaks occur and Bang . The LPG side is actually pretty safe if regularly maintained and both fuel systems checked.
.

MITCHAY · 07-12-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werd.

Reminds me of the article in a newpaper a while back..

"I was just leaving the Bi-Lo carpark when i could smell a strong smell of gas. I lit up a ciggarette and don't remember much after that. Fire brigade were only around the corner" etc.....

Sounds like the moron deserved it. Who the hell lights up a smoke if there's a strong smell of gas? Proof that some people don't use their brain

XCSEDAN · 07-12-2007, 09:12 PM

ok, got a bit more info from my neighbour who saw what happend, aparently the car was coming around the side road, and was trying to swap between petrol and gas with no success, after several attempts the car came towards the corner and as it went round it, the car backfired, aparently the force was enough that the bonnet was lifted (makes sense as to why the bonnet and hinges were buckled now).
i didn't see any of this but yeah it makes sense.

the car was regularly run on petrol and gas, when one got low he switched to the other, or when he filled up the tanks he flicked between them to bring the levels down a bit so they wern't so full.
the tank was in date as well aparently....

the firies were talking while i was there but i didn't get close enough to listen in on what they were saying.

LTDHO: no not only LPG cars burn, but they do have more pressure in the tanks the petrol (that has always worried me, not in the form the tank is going to explode for no reason, more that in an accident if a line splits or something)

Interceptor: i have never got that one, it's the same as the new GTs coming in for a service and getting gas fitted, makes no sense to me at all!

castek: sounds pretty similar ey...

Werd. :that is such a stupid thing to do!!! what an idiot!!!

gregaust: that is also very true, not sure if it was part of the problem in this case but who knows.

Bucknaked · 07-12-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

So only cars on LPG burn?.

Depends on how much petrol you pour over the car to keep the fire burning. :hihi:

[dave] · 07-12-2007, 09:41 PM

lpg cars make realy loud booms

Nostalgia · 07-12-2007, 09:44 PM

Been there, done that. Gas is now strictly for my BBQ. Thats my 20 cents worth and the coin is still rusty. So is the BBQ, the flavour is Nostalgic.

**TUF_302** · 07-12-2007, 09:52 PM

I agree, Gas should only be for the BBQ!

XR Martin · 07-12-2007, 10:01 PM

Damn dual fuel Lambos......

XR Martin · 07-12-2007, 10:05 PM

Wow, looks like a dual fuel F430 too!

Powdered Toast Man · 07-12-2007, 10:11 PM

So the explosion wasn't caused by the LPG tank or any fuel lines so the theory that the tank or associated pressure caused the problem is wrong. Sounds like it backfired through the intake, quite possibly an LPG fuel line ruptured under the bonnet caused by a blockage of some kind. Could have happened with petrol under the right circumstances as well. Petrol fuel lines are known to split, and just because there is a gas leak an explosion isn't guaranteed. I wouldn't want to drive it or be around it though lol.

I do agree with the performance cars on duel fuel comment though. It's a performance car, so why do something to make it lose performance.

jd dad · 07-12-2007, 10:12 PM

gas makes for the worst backfires. Have had a duel fuel car as a daily for about the last 15 yrs and never burnt one yet.

Pursuit_chick · 07-12-2007, 10:26 PM

We all do it (everyone on gas) including myself, but you aren't supposed to flick between gas and petrol while the car is in motion.

Perana · 07-12-2007, 10:43 PM

A properly set up LPG system should never backfire anyway, keep the mixtures correct, and the ignition system in good condition and they don't..

Gas can be safer than petrol really. A Petrol car is more likely to explode in an accident than an LPG only car, especially in vehicles with an automatic lock off valve at the tank..

gtxb67 · 07-12-2007, 10:47 PM

if it was not for gas my car would have burnt to the ground. it got started on petrol and ran on gas. after around 3 hours of driving, the coupe was parked in the garage. three days later i started on petrol and then noticed petrol pouring out of the front of the carby. the screws on the front bowl had come loose and was leaking for a few minutes after i switched it off. maybe it was poor maintainance but if it was petrol only, it would have gone up on the previous drive. i would never get rid of the gas.

cupic · 07-12-2007, 10:52 PM

If LPG is voodoo then tell the 500000 taxi all about it,times have change and gas tanks are more safe that plastic petrol tanks

Woz · 07-12-2007, 10:59 PM

When I got my first car, an XF panelvan on duel fuel, I was told that if I was gonna switch between fuels to flick the switch to the neutral position between the two choices for a couple of seconds before completing the change. I can't remember which way it worked but I think it was that changing from gas to petrol wasn't so bad but when going the other way if you flicked straight across the gas would ignite while the fuel bowl was still full of petrol and could set the whole lot alight. Makes sense when you think about it, so I always just flicked from petrol to neutral then to gas, rather than straight across, and the same when going from gas to petrol. I've had a few cars on duel fuel and never had a problem.

Just one of those things that maybe more people should be aware of, for safetys sake.

Qwikcorty · 07-12-2007, 11:04 PM

i think you should do a conversion asap

regencyred_sr2 · 08-12-2007, 12:55 AM

I have an AU2 duel fuel and i reckon the system is good. Even when i start the car on gas it starts on petrol then switches to gas, and after driving 20kms in gas it will automatically change to petrol so i reckon duel fuel is ok as long as its well maintained as mentioned before.

Auslandau · 08-12-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

A properly set up LPG system should never backfire anyway, keep the mixtures correct, and the ignition system in good condition and they don't..

Gas can be safer than petrol really. A Petrol car is more likely to explode in an accident than an LPG only car, especially in vehicles with an automatic lock off valve at the tank..

No! A properly set up LPG system WILL never backfire ......

If thats a reason not to drive with LPG ....... what are you doing using petrol if you are worried about things going boom????

Going from gas to petrol is very instant as it cuts out near immediatly. Going from petrol to gas it takes a while in the neutral position to clear the petrol from the lines. Seen a plastic fuel line rupture? Very hard to stop ....... It goes WOOF .... not BOOM!

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InfernoSR · 08-12-2007, 01:16 AM

I own the 2nd duel fuel car my family have ever owned... i had a problem which requires the convertor to be replaced... all i know is that if you find a very small problem... stop using the whatever fuel thats causing it and get the bloody thing fixed!

JC · 08-12-2007, 01:19 AM

This thread is fear based on ignorance. LPG is not the poor performance fuel a lot of people think it is, and any late model cars that are converted usually have to get VSI/SVI in order to meet emission laws, and the fact is that the loss of power is negligible, and with the right tune, can actually increase.

Personally, I would never buy a petrol only car again, and am actually looking into getting an SVI conversion on our explorer. Why? Because gas burns cleaner than petrol (ie better for the environment), and currently costs less than half what ULP costs.

BlackLS · 08-12-2007, 02:02 AM

Don't get me wrong, LPG in some cases is great, especially injected, but you'll have to agree that it is a sacrifice you make in order to drive something cheaply. When in th market 2 years back I needed something cheap to run, for what I paid for the Focus I could have had a equiviant spec Falcon on LPG, but I sacrificed a bit of interior space for better reliabilty and performance.

Do a search on the forums on "backfire" and the majority of the posts will be about cars on LPG. Yes, in theory, no LPG cars should backfire if they're properly tuned, but the fact is 95% of LPG cars do.

A properly setup and tuned LPG system won't cause problems, but the average joe (non-car-enthusiast) who chooses to purchase/convert a car to LPG is usually tight, and won't care about trivial things like a proper setup or regular maintanence/tuning to the system especially if they've had to return time and time again for retuning. In comparison, petrol is relatively maintainence and problem free, filter every 50000ks, fuel pump at 200000ks.

In an accident, especially pre-BA, your more likely to rupture the petrol tank than a gas tank. But if you picked a random LPG car vs same model petrol car, you're more likely to have the LPG car catch on fire due to the typical LPG trait of having a bad tune from poor maintainence, then to have such a serious accident that penetrates the car so much to split the flexible fuel tank.

Powdered Toast Man · 08-12-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Don't get me wrong, LPG in some cases is great, especially injected, but you'll have to agree that it is a sacrifice you make in order to drive something cheaply. When in th market 2 years back I needed something cheap to run, for what I paid for the Focus I could have had a equiviant spec Falcon on LPG, but I sacrificed a bit of interior space for better reliabilty and performance.

You bought a standard 2L Focus (I assume by your user name you have a Black LS) because you wanted more performance over a LPG BA? Huh? The Focus is a nice bit of kit but unless its the XR5 it isn't better performing than a BA. Not power/acceleration wise anyway.

And before you go defending the Focus saying I'm biased, I was actually in the market for a Zetec myself a year ago but just happened along my BA. I would still be happy in a Focus if I had one now.

This is my 4th duel fuel Falcon and I have never had any reliability problems due to the LPG system on any of them. None that werent the usual maintenence/wear and tear type items anyway, which would happen on a petrol only car as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Do a search on the forums on "backfire" and the majority of the posts will be about cars on LPG. Yes, in theory, no LPG cars should backfire if they're properly tuned, but the fact is 95% of LPG cars do.

Once again, none of my 4 LPG powered cars (6cyl XC sedan for 1 year, CPI EA sedan for 4 years, V8 EF for 3 years, V8 BA for 1 year) have ever backfired. Not denying it happens but you will find your percentage is way off.

thunderoo · 08-12-2007, 09:09 AM

I fit LPG for a living. And yes it is very safe ! With inducted gas ( normal systems) regular servicing of the ignition system ( plugs and leads ect ect ) and make sure the mixtures get checked every service, backfireing will not be an issue !!. I also fit injected gas, and it is so much better, there is no backfireing and power is the same and in some casses MORE than fuel. Ive fitted injected gas to gen 3's and xr8's with increases in ecconomy and power. Gas tanks are more safe than fuel tanks in a case of a fire, a fuel tank is not sealed and WILL explode on a fire, a properly maintained gas tank WILL NOT go up in a fire. But as most of us know a properly maintained vehicle will not inherit these types of problems, as it states in the begining of this thread, the driver had problems with the changeover, and by the sounds of it he had had it for some time as he had to flicker the switch to change over fuels, proper serviceing and maintenance would have solved this problem.......nothing to do with duel fuel LPG.

InfernoSR · 08-12-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

A properly setup and tuned LPG system won't cause problems, but the average joe (non-car-enthusiast) who chooses to purchase/convert a car to LPG is usually tight, and won't care about trivial things like a proper setup or regular maintanence/tuning to the system especially if they've had to return time and time again for retuning.

That being said... it still comes down to the owner and their brain's lack of function in regards to servicing and maintanence... its like the ad about the photocopier going to jail, dont blame the photocopier, it was the paper's fault.