New Air filter

[Scams]

Has any one got a lukey air filter for thier car yet?
if so is it any good?

[Scams]

http://www.lukey.com.au/default.asp?...mplate=CONTENT

[StealthAu]

I haven't used one, but I'm sure they would be just as good as all 11ty billion other branded high flow filters on the market

[Scams]

To clean it you just wash in water.

[dishpig]

meh lukey's, K&N or that doggy one are all the same you get sfa of a performance increase all it is is knowing you never have to buy a new one.

[schuldiner]

i have a lukey air filter, don't know how it goes compared to the K&N but it seems to work pretty well gives a bit of induction whistle too, just keep your old air filter for when you wash your lukey one wouldn't wanna put it back in all wet...

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by dishpig

meh lukey's, K&N or that doggy one are all the same you get sfa of a performance increase all it is is knowing you never have to buy a new one.

wrong wrong and wrong i noticed a marked inprovement in my bottem end with a K&N filter this has also been proven on a dyno with qiute a few cars. the power gain may only be a KW or 2 but it helps airflow in the critical low RPM range improving throtle response and drivability

[Sox]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

wrong wrong and wrong i noticed a marked inprovement in my bottem end with a K&N filter this has also been proven on a dyno with qiute a few cars. the power gain may only be a KW or 2 but it helps airflow in the critical low RPM range improving throtle response and drivability

A couple of points.

If their was a restriction caused by the filter, and that's a mighty big IF, the restriction would only harm high RPM performance, as that's when an engine demands the highest flow. Low RPM performance would not be affected as the flow demands are much lower and the filter would theoretically flow enough.

Secondly, any air filter which supposedly flows more than brand X, will also allow more dirt particles through. Which may or may not be ok.

Thirdly, I am not aware of any filter company providing independant test data to show that their filters provide any power gains anywhere in the RPM range.

Lastly, this article pretty much sums it up, and their are more articles like it around. Let Google do the work.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2232/article.html

Rick.

[AU2PWR]

Originally Posted by Sox

Secondly, any air filter which supposedly flows more than brand X, will also allow more dirt particles through. Which may or may not be ok.

Good Points there Rick , heres something to Ponder about ..

With the Above statement.. With your Generic High Flow Filters ... Doesnt the Oil that you use on them acually act as the Agent to Attract and Catch Dirt .. I Clean mine every month and the amount of Dirt and Fallout that it catches within the Oil is Amazing .. where as your standard Factory Filters are a Shake out job , leaving Smaller Particles of Dirt to still enter the Intake Manifold .

Whereas the Lukey ones as mentioned are sort of a Paper/Cotton Fiber Blend - And your K&N Type are Cotton Fiber in Steel Shell sort ..

With the Washable Filters though .. Another Thought .. Any Fibre that is Subject to water - Degrades over time if you wash them a fair bit .. would they be stuffed after a while .. there really firm at first .. wash em and there soft as !

Just a Thought i had then ..

[RG]

Originally Posted by AU2PWR

Good Points there Rick , heres something to Ponder about ..

With the Above statement.. With your Generic High Flow Filters ... Doesnt the Oil that you use on them acually act as the Agent to Attract and Catch Dirt .. I Clean mine every month and the amount of Dirt and Fallout that it catches within the Oil is Amazing .. where as your standard Factory Filters are a Shake out job , leaving Smaller Particles of Dirt to still enter the Intake Manifold .

Whereas the Lukey ones as mentioned are sort of a Paper/Cotton Fiber Blend - And your K&N Type are Cotton Fiber in Steel Shell sort ..

With the Washable Filters though .. Another Thought .. Any Fibre that is Subject to water - Degrades over time if you wash them a fair bit .. would they be stuffed after a while .. there really firm at first .. wash em and there soft as !

Just a Thought i had then ..

That's bloody scary Dan, you actually made sense. I am going to agree with you 100% on the first paragraph, same with the second and with the thirs I'll say that yes over time the material must degrade somewhat.

[FGII-XR6]

the low RPM response IS improved you are welcome to your opinions but this is a fact. I actually tested this with a friend randomly changing filters so I didn't know which one I had ( to make sure I wasn't just feeling what I wanted to)and I picked the K&N every time. as stated the oil in the filter traps more dirt that a standard paper filter ever could. I did see a test with a K&N showing small gains accross the whole power range all be it small i can't remember where i saw it but if I come accross it i'll post it up

Originally Posted by Sox

A couple of points.

If their was a restriction caused by the filter, and that's a mighty big IF, the restriction would only harm high RPM performance, as that's when an engine demands the highest flow. Low RPM performance would not be affected as the flow demands are much lower and the filter would theoretically flow enough.

Secondly, any air filter which supposedly flows more than brand X, will also allow more dirt particles through. Which may or may not be ok.

Thirdly, I am not aware of any filter company providing independant test data to show that their filters provide any power gains anywhere in the RPM range.

Lastly, this article pretty much sums it up, and their are more articles like it around. Let Google do the work.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2232/article.html

Rick.

[stiddy]

And they do Air Filter comparisons ALLL the time in Fast Fours and Hot4's lol. The latest and greatest at the moment is an A1 Filter.
Next week it will be something different :P

[Sox]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the low RPM response IS improved you are welcome to your opinions but this is a fact.

It's not a fact at all. A fact is something which is verifiable by hard numbers. Dyno tests, the stopwatch etc, not a 'seat of the pants' feel under dubious conditions.
You are also welcome to your opinions, however don't present them as fact.

I actually tested this with a friend randomly changing filters so I didn't know which one I had ( to make sure I wasn't just feeling what I wanted to)and I picked the K&N every time.

A 'seat of the pants' feel is meaningless, show me stopwatched timed figures, dyno results, etc.

as stated the oil in the filter traps more dirt that a standard paper filter ever could.

That's a highly debatable subject in itself, and something which many so experts disagree on. I personally sit on the fence, as I feel it is an over-rated point. A point worth knowing, nonetheless.

I did see a test with a K&N showing small gains accross the whole power range all be it small i can't remember where i saw it but if I come accross it i'll post it up

Good luck.

Rick.

[AU2PWR]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

That's bloody scary Dan, you actually made sense. I am going to agree with you 100% on the first paragraph, same with the second and with the thirs I'll say that yes over time the material must degrade somewhat.

Happens Some times .. Im going to sit in the corner now ..

[AU2PWR]

Rick .. Granted that Everyone has there own differentials about What is good for there car and whats not ..

K&N make AirFlow Meters , Analogue and Digital ones ... and Ive got a Analogue one thats mounted inside the Airbox .. shows you how much dirts your Car Breaths and stuff..

Over the Course of a Month with the Standard AU Filter and the K&N Filter that i have on my Car .. the Difference in Dust Actually Getting through to the Intake Manifold was Zilch .. there both Just as effective as eachother at catching Dust .. But the K&N Lets the Car Breath a Bit Better With the Pouros Nature of itself..

When i Slapped on on my Car .. It was Dead Stock , first thing we done to it .. and did back to back runs on the dyno .. finding it makes a 2.6rwkw Difference in power .. So Its got to be doing some Good ..

Lastly - I Know lots of people Brag K&N and all the Other washable filters .. but half of them i have seen , either havent been Oiled Properly or no Oil at All .. THey Need to be Cherry Red in colour to work Efficeiently ..

Cheers
Daniel

[Sox]

Originally Posted by AU2PWR

Rick .. Granted that Everyone has there own differentials about What is good for there car and whats not ..

To put this into context, I'm not actually sure which side of the fence I sit on with these fancy aftermarket filters. Personally I feel that their is much better bang for your buck to be had than replacing a filter, IME.
I've played with several different types of filter assembly on dynos and on the road by 'seat of the pants' method, and I can't say I've ever noticed anything conclusive.
Yet many claim the contrary, am I a nut, or are they all playing with their doodles. Who knows.

K&N make AirFlow Meters , Analogue and Digital ones ... and Ive got a Analogue one thats mounted inside the Airbox .. shows you how much dirts your Car Breaths and stuff..
Over the Course of a Month with the Standard AU Filter and the K&N Filter that i have on my Car .. the Difference in Dust Actually Getting through to the Intake Manifold was Zilch .. there both Just as effective as eachother at catching Dust .. But the K&N Lets the Car Breath a Bit Better With the Pouros Nature of itself..

Tests I've seen have shown otherwise, again, who really knows.

When i Slapped on on my Car .. It was Dead Stock , first thing we done to it .. and did back to back runs on the dyno .. finding it makes a 2.6rwkw Difference in power .. So Its got to be doing some Good ..

Perhaps.
As I said above, I've done similar testing, and found no improvements that could be directly attributed to the filter itself. Dynos vary a few kw on almost every run, with no change to the engine.
Variables such as engine heat soak, air temps, humidity, etc, can all show slightly different readings from run to run.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you did not have any gain, though I am saying that it is difficult to verify a couple kw with any real accuracy.

And as far as 'seat of the pants', I know I can't feel a difference of 2-3kw, let alone 5kw, so I don't trust that method.
IME, you need around 10kw difference before it's noticeable.

Lastly - I Know lots of people Brag K&N and all the Other washable filters .. but half of them i have seen , either havent been Oiled Properly or no Oil at All .. THey Need to be Cherry Red in colour to work Efficeiently ..

Very true, and that is when they are at their worst with filtering.

Rick.

[GK]

Originally Posted by AU2PWR

THey Need to be Cherry Red in colour to work
Daniel

It's either Cherry Red, or Midnight Blue ohhh ohhhh.

Sorry, I just lapsed back into the mid 80's and my teenage years! LOL!

GK

[FGII-XR6]

that shows how uneducated you are have you not heard of blind testing? that is what i did and the results wer conclusive and that is a basis for the assertion of a factual outcome not an opinion. the blind trial is used scientifically frequently and the results are accepthed as fact by the scientific community. I will rely on scientific testing methods over your opinion any day.
for stop watch ( how primative) timed results and dyno runs with only small gains to measure there are too many variables to give an accurate determination. the stopwatch method is open to the accuracy of the button pusher. i ahve seen 2 or 3 Kw difference between runs on the same car back to back with no changes so when you are only looking for small changes this is not accurate. In situations like this where there is too many variables in measuring blind testing is seen as superior to measurement

Originally Posted by Sox

It's not a fact at all. A fact is something which is verifiable by hard numbers. Dyno tests, the stopwatch etc, not a 'seat of the pants' feel under dubious conditions.
You are also welcome to your opinions, however don't present them as fact.

A 'seat of the pants' feel is meaningless, show me stopwatched timed figures, dyno results, etc.

That's a highly debatable subject in itself, and something which many so experts disagree on. I personally sit on the fence, as I feel it is an over-rated point. A point worth knowing, nonetheless.

Good luck.

Rick.

[Scams]

Wow All This over a filter

[Sox]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

that shows how uneducated you are have you not heard of blind testing?

Are you calling moi, uneducated?
Now now, no need for the insults.
Blind testing is something I have much experience with in the audio industry, in fact I conduct blind testing procedures quite regularly, what protocol do you desire, squire?

that is what i did and the results wer conclusive and that is a basis for the assertion of a factual outcome not an opinion. the blind trial is used scientifically frequently and the results are accepthed as fact by the scientific community.

Quite correct, however what you have conducted is only a single blind trial, which still allows the dreaded 'placebo' to take control.
The correct protocol in your example would be to use what's known as the 'double blind test'.

I'll leave it to you to work out the difference, as apparently I'm uneducated.

I will rely on scientific testing methods over your opinion any day.

You may rely on whatever you wish, it's your loss.

for stop watch ( how primative) timed results

Was a figure of speech, what was meant was a timed trial on a drag strip with sophisticated timing equipment. Something any well educated person would have realised.

and dyno runs with only small gains to measure there are too many variables to give an accurate determination.

Agreed, to a point.
Joe average has little chance of discerning real differences as they usually only conduct a couple of runs. What is usually required is back to back runs in sets if 3 or more to have any consistency. It is easily do-able, by the right people.
Trouble is, it is rarely done.

the stopwatch method is open to the accuracy of the button pusher. i ahve seen 2 or 3 Kw difference between runs on the same car back to back with no changes so when you are only looking for small changes this is not accurate. In situations like this where there is too many variables in measuring blind testing is seen as superior to measurement

Sure, if the correct protocol is used, I'll leave it to yours truly to work out what that is exactly.
Although it isn't more accurate than dyno testing, however it may be used to discern a difference of some kind.

PS, as for your uneducated remark, you might want to check your spelling....

Rick.

[FGII-XR6]

a double blind would have been difficult to carry out as the filters look different . the person changing them would see what goes in. even handed a filter while blindfolded he would feel the oily surface of the K&N. the single blind was not compromised as at no time did the helper provide any indication to me what filter i had and some runs were back to back with the same filter to mix it up. I agree not ideal but when i conduct tests i try to remove any possibility for bias as i fully understand the placebo effect. as for the stop watch i was taking you literally but even so i am taking more of drivability than elapsed times or dyno results and as i said in my blind ( all be it single) i was able to inentify the K&N filter every time there were 14 runs with K&N and 15 with the factory filter. if there were truly no difference i would not have picked 14 out of 14. all runs were on the same route and all were on the same tank of fuel on the same day . so as you can see my results could be seen as being factual although the ideal double blind method was too difficult in this case. I am not inclined to praise things without facts to back up my stance and i stand by my praise of these filters but i must add that i have not tested other brands and that the K&N filter must be properly cleaned dried and oiled to get optimal results. finally about the spelling, I'm mr typo, I am mildly dyslexic and sometimes miss spelling errors particularly when i'm busy but hey I mannage

[toyotaxr8]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

drivability, inentify, mannage

...........

[FGII-XR6]

i've already explained my problem whats your reason for being a rude ****

[Sox]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

i've already explained my problem whats your reason for being a rude ****

I was going to reply to your last post, until I saw this. :

Rick.

[FGII-XR6]

that was directed at toyota xr8 not you

[StealthAu]

I've got a K & N and I think its great, because I don't have to replace it. I had a brand spankers $20 paper filter in it when I bought the K & N, and personally I don't think there was any differance in performance. There could have been a minute increase in performance, but I'm not easily amussed.

[Mark One]

Originally Posted by Scams

Wow All This over a filter

My thoughts exactly...

[toyotaxr8]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

that was directed at toyota xr8 not you

your so kind, nice to know your thinking of me :