Can an edit/flash tuner cope with boost?

private9 · 26-02-2008, 09:19 PM

Hi All,

This has probably been covered before, but does an edit or a flash-tuner have the ability to actually be tuned for boost with the appropriate map sensor change?

Thanks,

Justin.

b2tf · 26-02-2008, 09:48 PM

Justin

my knowledge on the boosted side of things is limited but from what I gather it would be able to handle a fairly decent boosted setup. If you went with a high boost level though I would think an aftermarket ECU would be a better choice simply because you would have more scope to tune it.

private9 · 26-02-2008, 09:54 PM

Thanks Austin - yeah aftermarket would definitely be better, but I like all the nice little things that the factory ECU does that aftermarket ones don't! Perhaps a piggy back setup is the answer...

I guess a major factor would be whether an edit/flash tuner could cope with 500+cc injectors nicely.

EDIT: I just read a post by AU3XR6 saying that an XR6T Map sensor goes straight on an AU2/3 so there is hope!

b2tf · 26-02-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by private9

Thanks Austin - yeah aftermarket would definitely be better, but I like all the nice little things that the factory ECU does that aftermarket ones don't! Perhaps a piggy back setup is the answer...

I guess a major factor would be whether an edit/flash tuner could cope with 500+cc injectors nicely.

EDIT: I just read a post by AU3XR6 saying that an XR6T Map sensor goes straight on an AU2/3 so there is hope!

Unless youre planning to make it a boost monster I reckon you'll be fine with the edit. Good tuner is the key.

AU2PWR · 26-02-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Unless youre planning to make it a boost monster I reckon you'll be fine with the edit. Good tuner is the key.

Jesus - Were starting to Agree with eachother , Wierd ..

Ive been told that the Flash Tune will hold a Turbo Tune .. if its just a Basic Turbo 'Soft Setup' it will be fine ..

If your going to Boost the Living hell out of it .. Motec - Wolf3D - LINK , there are your Search Options Justin!

b2tf · 26-02-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU2PWR

Jesus - Were starting to Agree with eachother , Wierd

Full Moon

AU2PWR · 26-02-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Full Moon

Something like that ?

private9 · 26-02-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B2TF

Unless youre planning to make it a boost monster I reckon you'll be fine with the edit. Good tuner is the key.

If I was to go ahead with things, I'd like some decent power out of it - realistically 250rwkw would be the absolute minimum with a view to going further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU2PWR

Jesus - Were starting to Agree with eachother , Wierd ..

Ive been told that the Flash Tune will hold a Turbo Tune .. if its just a Basic Turbo 'Soft Setup' it will be fine ..

If your going to Boost the Living hell out of it .. Motec - Wolf3D - LINK , there are your Search Options Justin!

Now I'm scared!

I've got a Wolf 3D in my other car which just happens to run a boosted AU motor, and it does it very nicely, but if at all possible I'd like to keep the standard ECU running the show just for all those friendly little things that only a factory ECU (or a Motec LOL) can do for you.

I think it's time to speak to a few tuners - Chris from Bluepower seems to get nothing but positive feedback, might give him a yell.

Thanks for all the advice so far people!

sly · 26-02-2008, 10:15 PM

It should do, because the ECU doesn't get anything that tells it whether the manifold is in vacuum or under boost. What it gets is a voltage from the MAP sensor between 0 and +5v. 0v represents 0psi of absolute pressure, total vacuum, or -14.7 gauge psi. +5v represents whatever pressure the MAP sensor is designed to read to, be it 1 bar (atmospheric pressure), 2 bar (14.7psig), 3 bar (29.4psig) or 5 bar (58.8psig). The ECU converts this voltage to an engine load percentage which it uses to look up the spark and fuel maps for the load and revs.

So in theory the spark and fuel maps can be edited to suit the boost being measured, as well as other things like the injector size, regulator pressure etc. How far you can go I'm not sure. Some rude twit in another forum has been beating me around the head with "stock computers are gay" because they (allegedly) can't control high-volume low-impedance injectors. He may have a point but I can't really tell due to the amount of mouth-froth scattered through his posts.

One thing that is misunderstood about the AU TMAP is that the MAP side of the sensor transmits analogue voltage, like the Delco (GM) MAP and the MAP sensors used by aftermarket ECU's. Earlier Ford MAP's transmit a digital frequency and there don't appear to be digital MAP's with wider ranges available to replace them, so aftermarket ECU's tend to be an automatic choice for boosted E-series.

blackers10 · 26-02-2008, 11:21 PM

i read around that the AU1 doesnt take the XR6T map sensor for some reason??
is it because the AU1 ecu is more like the EL item rather than the AU2-3??

Eu-GenixX · 26-02-2008, 11:50 PM

could that problem be fixed by replacing the AU1 ecu with a series 2/3 item?

or are there other things added to the series 2/3 that were not in the series 1?

FGII-XR6 · 27-02-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eu-GenixX

could that problem be fixed by replacing the AU1 ecu with a series 2/3 item?

or are there other things added to the series 2/3 that were not in the series 1?

that would mean a complete rewire of the car replacing the dash , underbonnet and engine harnesses also the intake manifold and throtle body are different. the S1 is more like the E series ECU and the connector and mounting point for the map sensor are different. the standard ECU (S2) will handle a 250 RWKW setup with no dramas you just need a good tuner

sly · 27-02-2008, 10:25 PM

The wiring diagrams, ECU pinouts etc are the same for all series according to the manuals I have. Physical differences don't necessarily equate to different control logic.

It's a big grey area though - one example is that Chiptorque assert that the AU3 ECU has boost control, but my searches of the parts database suggest that the AU2 and AU3 ECU's don't have distinct part numbers, therefore are one and the same (and I'm pretty sure the pinouts don't include a boost control solenoid output).

Blackers10 can you revisit your sources and try to find out what the reason is (for AU1 not taking the XR6T TMAP)? This is quite important to me as I have an AU1 that I'm planning to force-feed. A 2-bar MAP or TMAP is a significant part of those plans. If I can't use it, it's a big spanner in the works.

JoesAu · 27-02-2008, 10:33 PM

me too i need to know that"its a big spanner in the works in terms of what i do

sly · 28-02-2008, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackers10

i read around that the AU1 doesnt take the XR6T map sensor for some reason??
is it because the AU1 ecu is more like the EL item rather than the AU2-3??

After sleeping on it and re-reading AU3XR6's post again, I think the issue is that

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the connector and mounting point for the map sensor are different

... in other words the XR6T TMAP just doesn't physically fit the mounting on the AU1 manifold. So for an AU1 you need to use an aftermarket generic MAP sensor wired into the ECU in place of the pressure side of the stock TMAP, and taking the vacuum/pressure reading from one of the vacuum ports on the manifold. There seems to be no difference electronically between the AU1 and later TMAP's, they still supply an analogue voltage between +0.2 and +4.8v to the PCM, which is the important part as far as tuning goes.