Back to petrol

amisupposed2b · 17-03-2008, 04:21 PM

hey there guys!

As some of you know I am working of a au falcon ex-taxi. Well recently I blew my radiator, so I took it to my boys in auspak auto, So they are gonna change the radiator. But whilst I was there I decided to ask them a few questions about something I have been thinking of for a while.

Removal Of Gas, and back to petrol.

I recently drove a petrol AU and wow, it does have a large difference...

They said it isnt a difficult job and all I would be needing is a new fuel pump, and injectors.

The cost with a new radiator $800. ( They also are gonna take my Impco gas sys)

I thought that the be a pretty fair deal, esp. considering the fact that I don't really know any other gas guys. But after speaking to blueprint I think otherwise on the price...

Any advice/ideas/comments/hints/tips ?

AU2PWR · 17-03-2008, 04:23 PM

Nah .. Change it back to petrol , Good for the Boot !

amisupposed2b · 17-03-2008, 05:06 PM

Yeh, I need alittle bit o spare boot right now, need to fit more subs and amps :P

FGII-XR6 · 17-03-2008, 05:40 PM

gas is good for the wallet though. ditch the mixer ring system and go SVI the gas actually goes better than petrol on SVI .

GK · 17-03-2008, 05:47 PM

If you've decided that's what you must do, then go for it, but the $800 plus your system is a tad steep I reckon. I'm no mechanic though, and that may be in the ballpark of the going rate for such things.

There are stacks of mechanics here though, and they'll get back to you soon I'd reckon with better estimates of price.

IMO though, keep the gas. Faaaaaar cheaper.

Just get some diff gears put in! You'll have power and not have to pay through the rear end to get it.

GK

Fairlane · 17-03-2008, 06:08 PM

I reckon keep the Gas.

AU 6's are never going to be that quick and comparing an Ex-taxi to a privately owned Au Petrol.

If the boot space is a real pain, or you really hate the LPG being so slow, sell it after youve removed your mods and get a petrol AU. Spending $800 to revert a gas car to petrol is completely dead money, better to sell it as is on gas and work from there.

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 06:16 PM

Agreed. Keep the gas, ditch any signs of petrol equipment (if the engine was a dual-fuel conversion) and get it dyno-tuned. You can then optimise the engine to run on LPG only.

Regards,
Dave

GK · 17-03-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

I reckon keep the Gas.

Spending $800 to revert a gas car to petrol is completely dead money, better to sell it as is on gas and work from there.

Part of the cost was the supply and fitting of the new radiator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Agreed. Keep the gas, ditch any signs of petrol equipment (if the engine was a dual-fuel conversion) and get it dyno-tuned. You can then optimise the engine to run on LPG only.

Dave

That's another take on it. Then the tune isn't compromised, but optimised!

GK

LG · 17-03-2008, 06:25 PM

Sell the gas, this may be the last time you can afford a powerful car that uses fuel. Petrol prices will only get higher, and you have to own some fast car in your life. Not that the AU is fast, but a couple of mods on petrol and it can be.

Although needless to say, my friend has an AU on gas, with full exhaust and a bit of intake work. His car goes hard, but not as much as it could on petrol.

Cheers

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 06:26 PM

Some more advice - mechanics are making big bucks off people's unwanted gas systems due to the Government rebates. Do everything you can to keep the gas system if you decide to remove it, as you should be the one making the money - it's YOUR system!

Regards,
Dave

InfernoSR · 17-03-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

gas is good for the wallet though. ditch the mixer ring system and go SVI the gas actually goes better than petrol on SVI .

Mate. can you link me up with more info?

amisupposed2b · 17-03-2008, 06:47 PM

Cool! Thanks for the advice guys.

I might have a quick speak with him 2morro because he has not started yet.

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEPRINT

Mate. can you link me up with more info?

Economically, I don't think it's not worth converting to SVI if you already have an LPG system installed. You're much better off optimising what you already have.

Regards,
Dave

InfernoSR · 17-03-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Economically, I don't think it's not worth converting to SVI if you already have an LPG system installed. You're much better off optimising what you already have.

Regards,
Dave

Still dont know what the heck it is though... and i'm not the only one...

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEPRINT

Still dont know what the heck it is though... and i'm not the only one...

SVI stands for Sequential Vapour Injection. It is different to traditional LPG system as it uses gas injectors to meter fuel into the intake ports in the lower intake manifold instead of a gas mixer above the throttle body. The advantages of such a system include almost elimination of backfire risk, better economy compared to traditional systems due to seperate control of metering into each cylinder and sequential injection, and better throttle reponse. The only disadvantages are cost, and injector flow rates (not so much of an issue these days).

Regards,
Dave

InfernoSR · 17-03-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

SVI stands for Sequential Vapour Injection. It is different to traditional LPG system as it uses gas injectors to meter fuel into the intake ports in the lower intake manifold instead of a gas mixer above the throttle body. The advantages of such a system include almost elimination of backfire risk, better economy compared to traditional systems due to seperate control of metering into each cylinder and sequential injection, and better throttle reponse. The only disadvantages are cost, and injector flow rates (not so much of an issue these days).

Regards,
Dave

Any idea on such costs and what required to buy? what excisting parts can be utilised?

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLUEPRINT

Any idea on such costs and what required to buy? what excisting parts can be utilised?

$4000-$5000 for a full installation compared to $3000 for a traditional setup. You can use the tank but almost everything under the bonnet needs to be replaced and the lower intake manifold drilled to accommodoate the new gas injectors. Also I forgot to mention that there is a huge difference in fuel changeover smoothness and integration with SVI. With SVI, you can change fuels whenever you want, even at WOT, and you won't feel the difference. Also, electronic functions that affect the fuel supply such as traction control can be used while running on LPG using SVI - a traditional system would almost certainly backfire if you enabled traction control on LPG.

Regards,
Dave

InfernoSR · 17-03-2008, 07:27 PM

Damn interesting excercise though... would love to see pics of how its done...

GK · 17-03-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Some more advice - mechanics are making big bucks off people's unwanted gas systems due to the Government rebates. Do everything you can to keep the gas system if you decide to remove it, as you should be the one making the money - it's YOUR system!

Regards,
Dave

I'm with Dave on this one.

GK

GK · 17-03-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Economically, I don't think it's not worth converting to SVI if you already have an LPG system installed. You're much better off optimising what you already have.

Regards,
Dave

And on this one!

GK

bodes-sh · 17-03-2008, 07:48 PM

to update from a mixer system to svi would be somewhere from $2k - $3k depending on the system used and the labour cost of the person fitting it, you may also be able to cut a deal if the system you already have on there is half decent and they can re-fit it to another car, a trade in as such, your old system for a new one...as has been said above, all the underbonnet bits need replacing, including a new gas ecu....au3xr6 should be able to give you an idea of price and maybe photos as he has recently had his done....

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 08:27 PM

There are a lot of people on Ford Forums with SVI installed in their Falcons and Territory's. If you want photos, ask in the LPG Forums (or do a search) or ask an installer like blownba. I hear that SVI works very well on AUs with excellent economy and driveability.

Regards,
Dave

FGII-XR6 · 17-03-2008, 08:33 PM

it's worh every cent my car is significantly quicker and smoother on SVI no backfire dramas better starting it is just all around a better car now my underbonnet shots are at www.aufalcon.com/au3xr6 it cost me 3300 to convert using a sprintgas system . this is the redesigned sprintgas with different injectors to the old one and re designed software

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

Economically, I don't think it's not worth converting to SVI if you already have an LPG system installed. You're much better off optimising what you already have.

Regards,
Dave

InfernoSR · 17-03-2008, 08:35 PM

Thanks guys... might look into it with more depth once i figure out my car issue's...

PoweredByCNG · 17-03-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

it's worh every cent my car is significantly quicker and smoother on SVI no backfire dramas better starting it is just all around a better car now my underbonnet shots are at www.aufalcon.com/au3xr6 it cost me 3300 to convert using a sprintgas system . this is the redesigned sprintgas with different injectors to the old one and re designed software

It is worth it purely for performance and smoothness, but for people with LPG already, the expense of the conversion is not justified. If you have a good low km petrol-only AU and want to keep it for a few years however, I would HIGHLY recommend SVI. For new conversions, it's definitely worth it - the conversion will pay for itself in no time.

Very nice setup btw, our VZ Commodore SV6 runs superbly on gas and petrol with the same system, but with the old injectors.

Regards,
Dave

cgglasson · 18-03-2008, 05:07 AM

G'day fellas
You've gotten me very interested in the SVI setup now. I have an 01 Fairlane so I presume it would be alright on that.
Apart from the fuel saving advantaged, is there much of a difference in performance (power/torque). I plan to have this car for as long as I can and would like to do a few mods to it, like exhaust (intake already done) and may go as far as supercharing it, would this setup be o.k. still??
Cheers

InfernoSR · 18-03-2008, 07:57 AM

Mods.... need a clean up please...

JC · 18-03-2008, 08:34 AM

To the OP - why not get dual fuel conversion (the other way, though). ie keep your gas, and get the petrol stuff re-installed as well. That way you have power when you need it, and cheap fuel when you want it. If you have an LPG only ECU (ie EGAS), you may need to get a normal ECU to run dual fuel. Also, if your engine has a green cover, then it IS an EGAS motor, and you will need intake manifold etc off a normal engine. The conversion can be lots more than just injectors, fuel pump etc, especially if your car started out as an EGAS car.

FGII-XR6 · 18-03-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cgglasson

G'day fellas
You've gotten me very interested in the SVI setup now. I have an 01 Fairlane so I presume it would be alright on that.
Apart from the fuel saving advantaged, is there much of a difference in performance (power/torque). I plan to have this car for as long as I can and would like to do a few mods to it, like exhaust (intake already done) and may go as far as supercharing it, would this setup be o.k. still??
Cheers

based on my experience you will notice no degradadation on petrol like you do with a mixer ring and slightly more power on gas . I highly recomend the sprintgas system . if you are looking at a parnell system I strongly advise you to read this thread first http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=63603.

InfernoSR · 18-03-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

based on my experience you will notice no degradadation on petrol like you do with a mixer ring and slightly more power on gas . I highly recomend the sprintgas system . if you are looking at a parnell system I strongly advise you to read this thread first http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=63603.

Interesting read there... damn shame for the screw ups and the lack of cosmetic appeal...

Still dont know what to do for the best really... :togo: